Thread: Zils anyone??

I have been watching a lot of youtube videos lately and it has occured to me that NONE of the ladies I have found play finger cymbals! What is up with that? It is a relic? I was taught by my original teacher that they were automatic and played throughout your fast songs and I've retained and embraced that. I guess I just didn't realize how different that was.

I have been watching with special interest in arms, that is why I noticed. You cant do flowy fingers or put your hands in your hair while playing cymbals.

Who else uses them? Do any big names use them, or is it just me?? ..c::

One of my favorite troupes, Raqs Habibi, are very cabaret and they are mad zillers.

They aren't zilling in this clip (unless they pick it up near the end--I didn't watch the whole thing), but they are wearing zills and their hands are graceful and lovely.

All three are Bhuzzers (jasmine, monica, ommia) so maybe one will chime in.

Minuscule in name, but I use 'em, teach 'em and love 'em!

Originally Posted by mish_mish

One of my favorite troupes, Raqs Habibi, are very cabaret and they are mad zillers.

They aren't zilling in this clip (unless they pick it up near the end--I didn't watch the whole thing), but they are wearing zills and their hands are graceful and lovely.

All three are Bhuzzers (jasmine, monica, ommia) so maybe one will chime in.

Heh--love the timing on our posting here! And thanks for the nice words Ms. Mish!

I am guessing you are talking about the By Dancers For Dancers II clip? We are wearing cymbals because we used them in our opening piece and our finale...which sadly we were unable to get music rights for, so those numbers are not on the DVD. So it looks like we just have zills on for show, but I swear we used them. Alas, no one who was no in the audience that night will know that!

I'll give a shout out to Leea Aziz here (my, Jasmine's, and Om Mia's first teacher many years ago when we were all in the same general area) who is a killer ziller herself.

At the Midwest Bellydance Challenge, three of the four dancers who placed (there was a tie for third) played zills, I think. So they're alive & well & highly valued around here!
Most restaurant dancers play them in St. Louis.

Egyptian dancers don't use them, though, and the Egyptian style is very popular these days. I think zilling would have to be very skillfull & sparingly used to not trample over that delicate, rich Orientale & Umm Kalthoum music. But even
Egyptian style dancers often play zills during their baladi segments.

Originally Posted by lisamandin

I have been watching a lot of youtube videos lately and it has occured to me that NONE of the ladies I have found play finger cymbals! What is up with that? It is a relic? I was taught by my original teacher that they were automatic and played throughout your fast songs and I've retained and embraced that. I guess I just didn't realize how different that was.

I have been watching with special interest in arms, that is why I noticed. You cant do flowy fingers or put your hands in your hair while playing cymbals.

Who else uses them? Do any big names use them, or is it just me?? ..c::

I play them, I even have one youtube clip with zills.

I don't play them throughout any song, though. Personally, I find non-stop zilling to be grating, and I only use them in certain portions of songs or for accents.

Here's my clip:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJP_EhBCfYU"]YouTube - Tamra Henna at Al Amir[/ame]

Thank you for posting. I enjoyed watching your clip

I started a playlist on youtube of zilling - when I get home (and have access to youtube - it's haram to use youtube at my job) - I will post what I've found.

I don't really like to zill but it is expected that you zill in some venues, so I have been trying to find examples of people using zills to all sorts of music. My teacher uses them in class but mostly we use them to old American Cabaret type music - so while I can zill away to that stuff, I want to learn how to do it to other types.

Well, I'm a mini-name and only chiming in because I wanted to add that I played them at my club/restaurant gigs for years, even during veil work but not during drum solo. I still play and love them, but for slightly more Egyptian nighclub style do not because I want to have my hand gestures a bit more apparent and it is easier to do flowy hands without zills.

do not know if i am "a name", but i am very proud of my zills, especially on my youtuce clip, drum solo with michael beach.they are taught from the 3rd lesson on here, and never removed during the dance.
we have veil clips out with the zills still on, because we never remove them for veil, so i understand monicas post.
(i do not know how to post a youtube here.
just type in cory zamora drum solo)

Look for some of Morocco's YouTube clips--she's a ziller par excellance!

I love my zills. Though my Instructor encourages us to leave them on it all depends on which veil I'm using. If I know that I'm going to be dancing with a trouble some veil I will remove them. If its one of my better behaved veils I leave them on....

I usually practice all my veil work with zills on....

Oh, one more note. If I'm dancing to music I don't know. I don't wear my zills and it usually makes me feel naked. .w.: I'm not comfortble dancing without my zills.

All the older big names at least used to play them regularly, even if they don't so much anymore. It's only because of the popularity of Egyptian style right now that they're not played as much. I expect their popularity will return one day.

I'm of the old school, which means I wore them throughout a show, never removing them, even when I wasn't playing them. It's so rare to see them being played these days, it's a treat when someone does and plays them well.

I always use them for one or two songs in my shows. I do pause to put them on and take them off.

I leave them on the whole time, and play them intermittently throughout- love my zills! It's the only instrument I know how to play and once I even had to do a whole 20 minute show with ONLY the zills - the party thought it was great, although the mom kept saying "Dahling, you're good but you need music" and I was trying to explain to her as I danced that I DID bring music- the restaurant system was messed up! I'm sure the rest of the patrons in the restaurant who couldn't see me must have hated me but the show must go on. I was a bit freaked though because it just so happened that the person who hired me was one of the top agents at my old real estate company that I hadn't seen in 7 years (back before I had ever performed) and there were other agents from that office there, too- of all parties for it to happen at! But, she ended up hiring me two more times after that so I guess she was happy enough.

Another time a troupe I was dancing with had to do a 30 minute show with zills and one drum- battery pack for the stereo went out and we grabbed a guy from the audience that said he could drum-- thankfully he was half-decent and everyone said it was our best show of the day (two other shows we were able to do with our regular music). Luckily it was in a 'medieval' faire setting so it worked out well.

It's funny because just last Friday I was telling all this to my friend who was dancing her first time solo at a restaurant and during the first set the music had kept cutting out and restarting on the same song- obviously she was mortified-- so afterwards during the second set she had gotten me and a couple other girls up to dance and the music stopped and she froze for a second and I said "Keep zillin, girl, keep zillin!! And she did ;o) So there's three examples of zills saving the day.

Hi there!

Took workshop with Faten Salama a week agao & we had a talk session at end of Sat's workshop. She mentioned that nowadays, modern style Egyptian dancers (sharqui) just DANCE, without much use of veils or zills or other props. In comparison to AmCab style which uses veils with lots of turns/spins, modern Egyptian dancers don't do that. And the emphasis now is the hands, arms, hips, & feeling the music

Raqia Hassan told me when she asked me to teach zills at Ahlan Wa Sahlan in 2006 (and again this year too) that she would love to see more dancers playing zills when they dance. She told me she is interested in reviving their use in Egypt as well as all around the world. I love my zills, play them while I dance Egyptian style, more often when it's folkloric, but often for raqs sharqi, depending on the music.

My teacher told me that some dancers in Egypt like to leave zill playing to the musicians...partly due to the fact that zills sound better if they are a little loose on the finger, which you can't really achieve when you dance. I've never seen Egyptian dancers in Egypt, so I can't really say ;)

Keeping your zills on for the whole routine, playing them really well, doing veil while wearing zills, these are some of the things that make the Vintage American Orientale (often called American Cabaret) so challenging to do. Zills add a lot of interest to the dance. Zills can have a kind of magical effect on people when they are played well and used effectively.

Originally Posted by leylalanty

Raqia Hassan told me when she asked me to teach zills at Ahlan Wa Sahlan in 2006 (and again this year too) that she would love to see more dancers playing zills when they dance. She told me she is interested in reviving their use in Egypt as well as all around the world. I love my zills, play them while I dance Egyptian style, more often when it's folkloric, but often for raqs sharqi, depending on the music.

I also play zills in Oriental pieces, usually during a folkloric section of the song(i.e.: beladi or saiidi rhythm).

hmmm, I've been debating if I should get a set or not. I'm getting back into dancing after taking 3 years off and it's kind of like relearning a lot of stuff. I was never good with zills, I just wanted to move. And I hated the sound, I had 4 sets of zills, none of which sounded the way I wanted. They were all just what was recommended, too high pitched for me. But I noticed that the Saroyan line has some with a greek key design that sound very mellow.
I wonder if I start with them again I might pick it up easier and add it to the dance easier?
I also just want to do a more Egyptian style, not so much the American/Cabaret style I used to do, so reading this thread has been interesting. It's good to know that they are being used by Egyptian style dancers, and how!

Originally Posted by NajlaHalem

hmmm, I've been debating if I should get a set or not. I'm getting back into dancing after taking 3 years off and it's kind of like relearning a lot of stuff. I was never good with zills, I just wanted to move. And I hated the sound, I had 4 sets of zills, none of which sounded the way I wanted. They were all just what was recommended, too high pitched for me. But I noticed that the Saroyan line has some with a greek key design that sound very mellow.
I wonder if I start with them again I might pick it up easier and add it to the dance easier?
I also just want to do a more Egyptian style, not so much the American/Cabaret style I used to do, so reading this thread has been interesting. It's good to know that they are being used by Egyptian style dancers, and how!

Najla, I LOVE the Saroyan Greeks - I have a set myself. I had the same issue with zills and tried many sets until I found these.

Talk to Bahaia, she actually plays zills very well (not many people know this), very sparingly and never overdone.

*edit* the brass are lower in tone than the silver, I have the brass

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

Najla, I LOVE the Saroyan Greeks - I have a set myself. I had the same issue with zills and tried many sets until I found these.

Talk to Bahaia, she actually plays zills very well (not many people know this), very sparingly and never overdone.

*edit* the brass are lower in tone than the silver, I have the brass

Thanks! I'll do that. Good info on the brass/silver.

I am right now teaching a series of three 2-hours zills workshops.
In the first WS there were 6 people. Now only 3 are left (and it's not because I am such a horrible teacher ).

The interest in zilling here is very low - and it doesn't help that many teachers/dancers make it sound like zilling is VERY difficult and only for the highly experienced dancer.
Rubbish.
I think dancers should learn playing cymbals much earlier! Then they become a natural part of the dance. Add them too late and they are just kind of "in the way"...

I will teach these 3 people another 2 hours, if I make money or not - and our studio owner even supports my mission and lets me have the room for free.
This is how badly we want people to zill! ..g.:

MEISSOUN

I'm teaching zills to my drop-in class, and everyone really enjoys it, even when I get a new student in, they are usually playing something by the end of class.

Originally Posted by leylalanty

Raqia Hassan told me when she asked me to teach zills at Ahlan Wa Sahlan in 2006 (and again this year too) that she would love to see more dancers playing zills when they dance. She told me she is interested in reviving their use in Egypt as well as all around the world. I love my zills, play them while I dance Egyptian style, more often when it's folkloric, but often for raqs sharqi, depending on the music.

I agree with leylalanty!!! My teacher was a part of a Lebanese folk troupe and they used zills. When she performed Egyptian style, she used them. I study the Egyptian style and folk dances with her and she always has me get out the zills.

When I listen to Egyptian music and a particular rhythm comes up, I think that zills would be great with that section. I may use them for a song or two and take them off. It depends on the music.

I just watched an old video of Nourhan Sharif perform -Thank you, Lauren for the videos!!-a routine wearing zills and a veil and handled both effortlessly while dancing amazingly to a live band *sigh*

I also watched old, old video of Fifi Abdo and Souheir Zaki put zills on in the middle of a routine and take them off.

One of my instructors came back from giving a workshop and was surprised at how many dancers don't use zils where she taught.

Originally Posted by meissoun

I am right now teaching a series of three 2-hours zills workshops.
In the first WS there were 6 people. Now only 3 are left (and it's not because I am such a horrible teacher ).

The interest in zilling here is very low - and it doesn't help that many teachers/dancers make it sound like zilling is VERY difficult and only for the highly experienced dancer.
Rubbish.
I think dancers should learn playing cymbals much earlier! Then they become a natural part of the dance. Add them too late and they are just kind of "in the way"...

I will teach these 3 people another 2 hours, if I make money or not - and our studio owner even supports my mission and lets me have the room for free.
This is how badly we want people to zill! ..g.:

MEISSOUN

I started learning sagat (zills) probably in my 5th or 6th week of lessons. My teacher gave us enough time to buy them if we didn't have any, and then we started using them in warm ups.

I love sagat, and while I haven't done a lot of performing with them, I plan to start working on incorporating them a lot more into my performances. They can add SO much to the dance!

I'm also a lover of Saroyan!!...I have three pair!

If any of you have an opportunity to take Karim Nagi's sagat class, I highly recommend it. He teaches dancers to use sagat as more than a "prop" or "accessory," rather, he teaches how to play them as a musical instrument (which they are) and dance at the same time. Its great, and challenging. :)

zills are glued to our students hands four weeks into instruction
z

I'm a no-name Egyptian-style dancer and I play zills; it seems to be necessary in New York, and I think it adds to the ambience at a party or club show. Sometimes it's the only way to be heard/seen in a loud place. My main teacher is very Egyptian in style and plays them copiously. There's certainly a lot of "old-school" influence here in NYC, what with wonderful teachers like Anahid, Elena, Morocco, Aszmara, Rayhana, etcera around, all of whom have pretty much every style under their belt. So maybe that's why so many dancers here, though they may be specifically one style or another, have elements of the earlier American/Oriental style in their dancing?

I had to force myself to play them, and I didn't view myself as a truly competent dancer until I could get through at least an entrance with them, because we were always told that it was such an important skill. Now I love playing them, though I am definitely only workmanlike in my abilities. I was really disappointed to see that no dancers in Istanbul played zills. I'd always been told that Turkish dancers played them really well. The three we saw at the Orient House didn't touch 'em.

Karim Nagi is a great sagat teacher - he really makes you feel integrated with the music. Definitely a must to study with!

- Leela