Thread: *sigh* Beginner Veil Choreo Blues

I'm not that great at choreo anyway, and I'm not a veil specialist, so I'm having a devil of a time creating a simple Level I veil choreography for my students. Any helpful hints or sample student choreographies y'all can share with me?

Right now I'm using "Sensual Chifti" from Aziza Raks. Any other suggestions?

Desert orchid, Kairo by night, there was a most beautiful interpretation by Sonya of Chicago. It's very nice for veils.

here's a beautiful clip I'd love to post, maybe it's an inspiration for all veil dancers but no, no bellydance...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQu9XHUgbw&feature=related]YouTube - "Night Winds" excerpt from Loie Fuller-inspired "Roman Sketches"[/ame]

This is a veil routine I taught to Conchi's Belly Gram Routine off her CD. My notes might not mean much! But each move is meant to transition easily into the next one and can easily fit most chifti's or rhumbas. Music was a chiftitelli:

2:17 Chiftitelli rhythm 50 x Veil and isolations and side to side
Each veil movement should last through several measures.

1. L arm wave to the front and back
Da Dadadada da da da
2. Tent Frame cross R arm to pick up corner, L hand slides down to other end of veil, rib cage isolations
R Hip L hip

3. Sail with walk

4. Ghost veil covers head, snake arms

5. L arm wave to the front and back
6. Remove R side of veil with R hand
7. Butterflys
8. Overhead figure 8's
9. Face Veil
4:41 Wrap up Spin

I'm doing almost exactly this same routine here:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5Z6BSoEc8w]YouTube - Norma, Detroit Belly Dancer, Live 11-7-98 Part 2 A[/ame]

Oooh Nouria, I loved that wings-performance art video! Very beautiful.

Tamrahenna, I had very good luck teaching veil to beginners not so much using a choreography as just trying to keep them moving through the veil; have a list of the veil moves you want to teach them, then have them go through them with a pattern of step (veil move), half-turn, step (veil move), full turn, step (veil move), half-turn, and so on. You progress across the room slower that way, and the step turns keep them moving and are easy to remember so they can concentrate on the veil. I tried both just teaching them veil in increments (here's the move, here's what you want to do, etc), and teaching them along with other dance moves, and one was too boring, the other too confusing. Just my 2 cents, and you know what your students can handle. They always love veil though! :-)

Tamra Henna, since you're online I post a clip of an intuitive veil dancer, that is my kiddy who on occasion grabs a towel or this time a bedsheet...

She just enjoys having all that fabric swinging and flying. Kids are so simple sometimes in the way they do things, they just do them...I will leave that for public viewing only for a couple of hours for I'm rather protective in this way, but I'd love to share it. I should have given her better music though, seeing that she was into the veil thing again, before she was dancing on my high heel shoes with a towel as a veil...,r:;

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fVW3r1F1E0]YouTube - ösfjwaoro[/ame]

It's very strange though, I said "no embedding" and I can watch it here on bhuz, how can that be...?

I'm so glad I watched that - it made my morning! She is so precious! Her spins and turns were amazing, but my favorite moves were the "veil kick" and the "ghost." ..l;,

She's definitely a natural mover; if she decides to belly dance someday she'll be awesome!

Plus, that song is great - what is it?

It's a surf music piece! That's all I know.
She is funny you know. I may never tell her anything, but sometimes she goes to her room and secretly tries the things I was just doing...

Originally Posted by Nouria

It's a surf music piece! That's all I know.
She is funny you know. I may never tell her anything, but sometimes she goes to her room and secretly tries the things I was just doing...

Nouria, thanks for posting, she's sooo sweet! The music is familiar to me from the Pulp Fiction movie, but in the movie it's a different version.

Hi Tamra,

I must confess that I'm not a veil person BUT I was moved to tears when I watched Khalida's veil perfomance in Duisburg (spell?). I believe she used many of Aziza's moves. You will probably be inspired by something in her video. I will post it when I get home b/c I'm at work and I'm NOT supposed to be on here. hehehehe....

**Edited**

I posted it anyway b/c I'm a rebel like that. LOL...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H943DcyeqB0"]YouTube- Khalida performing in Duisburg - December 2008[/ame]

wow.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

Hi Tamra,

I must confess that I'm not a veil person BUT I was moved to tears when I watched Khalida's veil perfomance in Druisburg (spell?). I believe she used many of Aziza's moves. You will probably be inspired by something in her video. I will post it when I get home b/c I'm at work and I'm NOT supposed to be on here. hehehehe....

**Edited**

I posted it anyway b/c I'm a rebel like that. LOL...

YouTube- Khalida performing in Duisburg - December 2008

That was beautiful.

Cleopatra by Pangia is a great beginner veil song. i have a beginner choreo to it, but it's not online unfortunately.

Btw. I can't believe bhuz embedded this video! I had marked "no embedding". I put the vid on private again and there it still is!!! It's still playing!

Help please. I don't want it to be out there...
f.... me that was not supposed to happen!

Originally Posted by Michelle75

I must confess that I'm not a veil person BUT I was moved to tears when I watched Khalida's veil perfomance in Duisburg (spell?). I believe she used many of Aziza's moves. You will probably be inspired by something in her video

*blush* Thank you Michelle! And yes! This dance is very inspired by Aziza, my absolute belly dance hero ;) I've taken a lot of classes with her over the years.. This choreo is dedicated to her :)

In case anyone wonders, the music in this video is Greek, a very well known song 'Kemal' (legend of sinbad) of composer Manos Hadjidakis, interpreted by singer/voice artist Savina Yannatou. There are many amazing versions of this song on youtube, but this particular one is really near to my heart.

PS: I also recommend Aziza's instructional veil DVD for practice!

PSPS: Yes, it's Duisburg! :)

Khalida, that music is just as beautiful as your dance. They go so perfectly together. I'm curious, do you have formal dance training in ballet or jazz?

Originally Posted by Nouria

Btw. I can't believe bhuz embedded this video! I had marked "no embedding". I put the vid on private again and there it still is!!! It's still playing!

Help please. I don't want it to be out there...
f.... me that was not supposed to happen!

Nouria, I think it's okay...I tried to click on the video and it gave me a "this is a private video" message so I couldn't watch it....hope that helps! :-)

Oh, and agreed that veil dance was beautiful Khalida!

Originally Posted by calianaamar

Nouria, I think it's okay...I tried to click on the video and it gave me a "this is a private video" message so I couldn't watch it....hope that helps! :-)

Thank you! Yes I tried again and then it worked well, how I meant it to work.
The thing is I put it on private about ten hours ago and just there I could watch it, embedded. Well, never mind, the kid is safe..g.:

Here's my suggestions:

Leave lots of extra time at strategic points in the choreo for the beginners to recover from any veil disasters they may/will encounter. Keep the veilwork simple. Perform it indoors.

Most importantly: Teach them how to recover from veil disasters - I cannot stress that enough. It can make the difference between a dancer loving veilwork, or hating it forever.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

I'm curious, do you have formal dance training in ballet or jazz?

I do! About 5-6 years of jazz as a kid and a wee bit of ballet before that, then started up ballet training again a few years ago for cross-training. It helps enormously!

As for music suggestions: I use 'Arabian nights' from Disney's Alladin for my level ones with veil :) It's short and sweet, and has a bit of drama as well as a sweeping melody.

Another one I like a lot for class is 'Path to Goa' from Issam Houshans 'Wassan Pharaoun' CD Issam Houshan Wassan Pharaon CD

As for movements: Try to keep it simple, use a lot of poses and transition between them slowly (veil behind and arms up, then maybe close the hands in front, then open up the elbows and do a head slide, then open up the veil again slowly, things like that)

Turning the veil around you in slow motion also works well in group, and swooshing it up on the side (one hand goes out via the side, the other one stays behind the back or in front if you have the veil in front)

Also fun for groups is 'walking into the veil' with the veil in front, lifting the arms slightly as you go, then walking back and 'wave' a bit with the veil up and down in front of you. You can alternate 2 rows as well, one group of students walks to the front while the other group walks back

Walking in a big circle letting the veils fly/trail behind, turn around, then walking the other way

And don't forget to put some bd moves in there as well :) using the veil as a frame. Works with the veil in front, in the back or in a slight angle to the side..

Hope this helps! Don't have any group videos I'm afraid :(

And YES to Zorba's suggestion about veil disaster recovery :)

If you like Eddie "the Sheik" Kochak, vol. 3 has a beautiful piece (#3 track) I use a lot for beginner veil.
Great tips Khalida & everyone! Also beautiful clip.
Dramatic poses; just lift high up behind & let drift down; & the keep it simple & recovery from disasters! Sarah Skinner has a great veil dvd & share her recovery tricks (the one with blue costume on cover).
I describe veil use to students as:
1) your frame 2) your dance partner 3) its own dance , & 4) a costume addition. Think about how you like to present it.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

Hi Tamra,

I must confess that I'm not a veil person BUT I was moved to tears when I watched Khalida's veil perfomance in Duisburg (spell?). I believe she used many of Aziza's moves. You will probably be inspired by something in her video. I will post it when I get home b/c I'm at work and I'm NOT supposed to be on here. hehehehe....

**Edited**

I posted it anyway b/c I'm a rebel like that. LOL...

YouTube- Khalida performing in Duisburg - December 2008

oh, my...I think you just changed my life!

One thing I really hate about beginner veil choreographies is that they are often all about standing or walking around and manipulating the veil--with very little actual dancing. If you have the stage presence to do this sort of thing, it can be very artistic, but most people, and certainly most beginners, don't. More importantly, I think it starts students off in the very bad habit of thinking that veil dancing is about the dancer being a prop for the veil's performance, instead of the other way around.

Bad beginner veil dancing also encourages the pernicious "Anybody can do it!" attitude, because, yeah, anybody who's ambulatory and can raise their arms can stroll around to music with a couple of yards of silk fluttering prettily behind them. Veil dancing is supposed to be about interpreting music with the artistic enhancement of a piece of fabric, not a display of how many ways you could think of to swish a piece of fabric around. I get it--they're beginners. Beginners love veil because it makes them feel like "poetry in motion" instead of "clods on parade." Still there is an obligation to establish the foundation for better veil dancing down the road, even when they only know a few moves. In other words, more dance with framing, and less flagpole.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

One thing I really hate about beginner veil choreographies is that they are often all about standing or walking around and manipulating the veil--with very little actual dancing. If you have the stage presence to do this sort of thing, it can be very artistic, but most people, and certainly most beginners, don't. More importantly, I think it starts students off in the very bad habit of thinking that veil dancing is about the dancer being a prop for the veil's performance, instead of the other way around.

Bad beginner veil dancing also encourages the pernicious "Anybody can do it!" attitude, because, yeah, anybody who's ambulatory and can raise their arms can stroll around to music with a couple of yards of silk fluttering prettily behind them. Veil dancing is supposed to be about interpreting music with the artistic enhancement of a piece of fabric, not a display of how many ways you could think of to swish a piece of fabric around. I get it--they're beginners. Beginners love veil because it makes them feel like "poetry in motion" instead of "clods on parade." Still there is an obligation to establish the foundation for better veil dancing down the road, even when they only know a few moves. In other words, more dance with framing, and less flagpole.

Oh you're tough on them poor beginners, Tourbeau .w.:

Sometimes when I see veil dances, after having watched maybe dancing with a jug, bread baking gestures, it feels like: ah the good women, now it's laundry day!

I guess if you want people to dance things, it mightn't get to complicated so they can enjoy and imagine the things they're supposed to embody. The night, the air, a dream, the wind over the dunes, the mystery, the cocoon and the butterfly...so cute! I remember the first choreo I ever was to learn had to be with a veil to a horrible song called "dancer in the mooooon lighttttt": I hated the whole thing instantly I thought well if she likes that sort of music, I'm out of here!

nouria, i cant watch it, i think it is playing for you, because you are logged into your own youtube account. i just get "this video is private" when i click on it. wished i'd seen it though

Originally Posted by Nouria

Btw. I can't believe bhuz embedded this video! I had marked "no embedding". I put the vid on private again and there it still is!!! It's still playing!

Help please. I don't want it to be out there...
f.... me that was not supposed to happen!

here's what i do in my "love your veil" workhop (all levels)

- warm up with a lot of arm work, posture work, extension etc, rib cage stuff also

- talking about the veil, why good posture is extra important, how to hold it, what veils to use, etc etc.

- holding the veil in front and turning it to the back, turning the veil around yourself; work on posture, on "creating space, not cutting a cake", on extending arms, and the difference between a veil as a frame/a dance partner/an extension of you, etc

- walking with the veil (walk in to it with veil in front, and let it drop back on you while walking back)

- angel or wings, half angel/wings and a simple turn

- throwing the veil overhead (again posture, arms, soft, not chucking it)

- some of aziza's things (step pivot with the veil, and the buritto)

- maybe the envelop, or a drape, or something with a pose

- lots more poses

in between i have them practice on music and i string them together on music, as easy combo's, to get them going with transitions right away, with lots of posing and bellydance movemebts with the veil as a frame in between

emphasis is on soft, not rushing, and not throwing it about

i dont make choreo's for this level, personally, i find it pointless. i do mostly practicing of new veil moves, trying it out, and then following me on the music, slowly, trying stuff out... and it'll end with them improvising with it

key points: slow grace and magic and flow, NOT tossing and swooshing and throwing and turning like crazee