Thread: The word 'beledi' and the beledi people...

This is a spinoff from the Melaya Leff thread
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4646

Originally Posted by laura 2
I would explain that a baladi girl is from the country. Other than that it looks great, and is similar to what I've used.

Originally Posted by kashmir
No, "of the country" - true many of the urban working class from the rural areas - within a couple of generations - but this isn't Elly May Clampett in LA. The beledi people are the majority in Cairo and Alexandria.

(later)
Maybe cut "beledi" and say "working class"? or even "salt of the earth"?

I knew 'baladi' meant 'country' and I really thought the baladi people were people who'd moved from villages into the city (yes, like Ellie May). In fact, I'm certain I've read that more than once. (as is often the case with misinformation in bellydance).

Interesting.

The word beledi doesn't always refer to 'working class people,' though, right? I was told it meant 'of the country' often in a nostalgic sense for village folk transplanted to the city, sometimes in a disparaging sense by true urban folk. Is there any truth to that?

I was also told it means 'of my country' not in the sense of being 'egyptian' but usually more specific to a smaller area, a group of villages, a person's ancestral home. Any truth to that?

And why does the word for 'country' also mean 'working class?' Is it because of thousands of years of foreign occupation and rule?

Well I think everyone is right -- sort of. My understanding is that balady gets used the same way in Egypt as we use the word country here in the U.S. So it could mean the nation as in "The USA is the country where I live" or as an adjective as in "I love country and western music", or disparagingly as in "It's embarrasing to go anywhere with him, he's so country" or as a synonym for simple or easy-going as in "I just love the country way of life."

my 2cents

"Baladi" refers to "my home town", "my village", "the place where my family came from". The concept of "baladi" as we know it today really came into being during the 19th century in Egypt, due to the Industrial Revolution. People from rural villages moved to the cities (often NOT voluntarily, by the way) to work in the emerging factories. These people longed for their rural homes and culture. So "baladi" as a cultural phenomenon came to refer to attempts to preserve the rural culture while within an urban environment.

When saying it's like the "country" concept in the U.S., think of how the "country" sort of culture was in the U.S. in the 1960's and 1970's. When people heard the word "country" back then, they thought of patchwork quilts, earthy music (such as early Johnny Cash) played on acoustic guitars and harmonicas, handcrafted antique furniture, etc. It tended to be the culture/lifestyle that was embraced by people who actually lived on farms, or had done so in the past and felt nostalgic. But the U.S. cultural phenomenon of "country" has evolved away from its roots, and today "country" music is sung by pretty boys wearing cowboy hats, and country-flavored home decor has evolved to be barnyard animals with skirts. It's no longer an organic movement kept alive by people who want to preserve a lifestyle, but rather it has become a mass-market thing packaged and peddled by big business. Today, the whole mass marketed culture of "country" in the U.S. is being consumed by people who perhaps have never even set foot on a farm, let alone lived on one.

It's similar with Egyptian "baladi". There's still a certain flavor/attitude, a remnant of the rural culture of people who once lived in villages; people who longed for their rural lifestyle and values even after being uprooted and forced to move; people who tried to preserve those lifestyles rather than embracing the slick urban culture. But today, "baladi" is a memory of how people's grandparents lived and a remnant of the culture/values the grandparents brought to the city with them, and it has evolved to satisfy the needs of today's generation.

Wow, Shira...you're a goddess of information. :)

OK. So it wasn't ever *wrong* to say that Baladi people were villagers who had moved to urban areas, but they may be descendents of those villagers.

I know a lot of these people in the U.S. in my area. Actually, my husband is descended from the Hatfields (as in "...and the McCoys.") It doesn't matter how many generations his family lives in suburbia, there'll still be beans & cornbread, biscuits & gravy, etc. Hmmm, which seems to sum up most of the working class people I know.

So Ellie May, 3rd generation? Integrated, but still clinging to rural culture?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

This is a spinoff from the Melaya Leff thread
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4646
I knew 'baladi' meant 'country' and I really thought the baladi people were people who'd moved from villages into the city (yes, like Ellie May). In fact, I'm certain I've read that more than once. (as is often the case with misinformation in bellydance).

I think it is one of those concepts that does not translate well between cultures. "balad" is a village or community. For those to whom "beledi" applies - it is seen as positive. After the revolution the beledi people were touted as the true Egyptians.

For those who do not identify as beledi - the rich, the intelligensia etc it can be a put down "soooo beledi", "beledi bread" is the pits, "beledi dancing" is lower class. There is also a realted adjective (balud? - I don't have my dictionary here) - which translates as stupid.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

The word beledi doesn't always refer to 'working class people,' though, right? I was told it meant 'of the country' often in a nostalgic sense for village folk transplanted to the city, sometimes in a disparaging sense by true urban folk. Is there any truth to that?

I was also told it means 'of my country' not in the sense of being 'egyptian' but usually more specific to a smaller area, a group of villages, a person's ancestral home. Any truth to that?

And why does the word for 'country' also mean 'working class?' Is it because of thousands of years of foreign occupation and rule?

Yep, yep, yep. Except 99% (? - again typing away without my reference library) of the people in Egypt are working class - and most dirt poor as well.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

OK. So it wasn't ever *wrong* to say that Baladi people were villagers who had moved to urban areas, but they may be descendents of those villagers.

Yup, you're on the right track!

This is so interresting, I want to know everything there is to know about this topic. It is so easy to confuse the concept of beledi. Hossam Ramzy once wrote an article about this were he explained the idea of beledi as beeing proud of your roots and background in the conservative way (country people moving to the city). The beledi style of dancing is known to be quite heavy and folkloric. The dance is more about the coulture.
But we also have the knew style of beledi, the pop beledi which is not at all conservative but rather the second or third generation trying to break appart from the old family background (the dance shows the girl as shy and feminine but still wanting to break away from the ways that she was brought up. This would be the "flirting" part of the beledi). This style is more about comunicating. I get the feeling that it is sort of "going native" in the city. Perhaps this has nothing to do with the old idea of beledi, other than sharing the name.

This way the beledi now and then are not two totally different things but an ever changing style (consept) that never forgets it roots.

Mdm Farida Fa´my often tells her students about the continuation in the arabic culture. This may be one part of the coninuation...