Thread: influence of Middle Eastern dance on ballet??

This question usually gets asked the other way around, but -- I'm wondering if anyone here knows about, or can point me toward a source about, the influence of Middle Eastern dance/culture/etc. on ballet? Last summer I was at a workshop where someone mentioned this idea, and I wrote down the sources she mentioned, but can't remember where I wrote it down. ,f::

She was saying, for example, that the "arabesque" of ballet is so named because it derives from the Arab world, and that the eight basic body positions (pictured here: Diane Remy School of Dance & Baton, Inc.: Basic Body Positions) are also Arab-influenced (because they incorporate diagonals rather than always facing the whole body directly toward the audience).

I remember the sources as being academic -- dance ethnography type stuff rather than general web sites etc. -- and those are the types of leads I'm most hoping for, but I'll take whatever I can get!

Thanks for any help you can provide ...

Originally Posted by NisreenBrooklyn

This question usually gets asked the other way around, but -- I'm wondering if anyone here knows about, or can point me toward a source about, the influence of Middle Eastern dance/culture/etc. on ballet? Last summer I was at a workshop where someone mentioned this idea, and I wrote down the sources she mentioned, but can't remember where I wrote it down. ,f::

She was saying, for example, that the "arabesque" of ballet is so named because it derives from the Arab world, and that the eight basic body positions (pictured here: Diane Remy School of Dance & Baton, Inc.: Basic Body Positions) are also Arab-influenced (because they incorporate diagonals rather than always facing the whole body directly toward the audience).

I remember the sources as being academic -- dance ethnography type stuff rather than general web sites etc. -- and those are the types of leads I'm most hoping for, but I'll take whatever I can get!

Thanks for any help you can provide ...

Middle Eastern dance, or more accurately, the Orientalist vision of Middle Eastern dance certainly influenced contemporary ballet/dance in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century. Ballet Russes and Ruth St. Dennis are good examples of this.

My Ballet Companion, defines Arabesque as follows:

From the Italian arabesco, which means "in Arabian fashion" and refers to a style of intricate ornamentation. In ballet, a position in which the dancer stands on a straight or bent supporting leg with the other leg straight and extended directly behind (derriere), with the foot on the floor (a terre) or in the aire (en l'air).

Further googling of arabesco yields this:

Beautiful birds! The Arabesco pattern originated from a 17th century Persian calligraphic pattern. Our collection includes bowls, bottles, canisters, dinnerware, plates, platters, tea & coffee pieces, table accessories, trays, and home décor..

Italian Pottery – Arabesco Pattern – Deruta Pottery

Despite the name, the actual movement is not related to Middle Eastern dance. It's pulled from decorative style used in pottery and textiles. I would guess it made its into ballet as a way to describe grace and elegance.

As far as body positions go, my understanding is they were developed to show off feet, legs and hips in the most flattering way to your audience. Crossed positions and turn-out have a way of slimming and lengthening and maximizing the amount of leg/foot the audience sees as you're dancing. Often far more flattering and impactful than constantly dancing face on. Ballet positions are about showing off the body and movements to audience. So again, I highly doubt they were pulled from Middle Eastern dance.

Honestly, to me this sounds like ill-informed speculation and sloppy research. Take it with a big grain o' salt.

Looks like mathkitty posted while I was starting my post, but I was going to say some of what she said. I am definitely no expert on ballet, but I too was under the impression that the arabesque position of ballet had been so named for its graceful, intricate look. I am unsure as to how facing the audience at a diagonal would be Middle Eastern in origin. There are only so many directions one can face and I think that movement in all directions occurs in all dance forms.

I would be very interested to know, though, if someone had reliable information to the contrary.

Yeah, I too am reluctant to make a correlation between one dance form and another on the grounds of certain similarities, especially similarities in how the body is presented to an audience.

With the arabesque thing, I'd wondered and wondered; and certainly in ME dance there is a whole tradition of standing on one leg with the other one raised or lifting up and down in some fashion, albeit not very high, and only to the front, and really in ways closer to attitude than arabesque.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FT94KGHEuf.../s200/bd06.gif
http://www.jewishsightseeing.com/200...ca%20Smith.jpg

Cassandra reckons the Oriental arabesque - the one where you sort of drag your foot through as you drop your hip - and the ballet one are related. But it's hard to know.

I would say that in French, the language of ballet, to say something was in Arabian fashion the term would be more likely a l'arabe rather than arabesque, and the idea of the term coming from the Italian is more likely. What do we know about proto-ballet though, the Basque men's dance? What did it look like?

I'm really interested in this topic.

I'm not really thinking ballet, but rather modern dance, contemporary dance and so on.

I have heard ppl. stating that modern Egyptian dancing was influenced by the teachings of (Western) modern dance.

And vice versa, that modern Western dance owes everything to oriental dance.

I'm not really trying to find out who the winner is, but rather what similar concepts may exist in both, and I have little to no knowledge about theories in modern and contemporary Western dance. My guess would be: what distinguishes oriental dance from classical ballet would probably be sth. similar that in the West the modern dance pioneers introduced in our world - like the relationship with the earth, gravity and other things.

I have two clips to add of how ethnic dances inspire modern ballet choreographers and vice versa, how contemporary dancers influence dancers belonging to the "ethnic" category (in the case of Yerbabuena it would have been especially Pina Bausch as I heard).

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZdh6mnxU7Q]YouTube - Gnawa by Nacho Duato -- Hubbard Street Dance Chicago[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIlLulTfWNI]YouTube - Flamenco en Red - Eva Yerbabuena - "Lluvia"[/ame]

Here, very beautiful and interesting:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD_alhAJbT0]YouTube - Gaia Scuderi contaminazione fra danza orientale e contemporaneo[/ame]

Originally Posted by zumarrad

With the arabesque thing, I'd wondered and wondered; and certainly in ME dance there is a whole tradition of standing on one leg with the other one raised or lifting up and down in some fashion, albeit not very high, and only to the front, and really in ways closer to attitude than arabesque.
[/url]

I think that the idea of the ballet arabesque stems from arab ornaments, and the dance figure itself doesn't stem from arab dancing but found it's way into bellydance through ballet teachers.

I allow myself to quote from English speaking wikipedia here (but got acquainted with the subject in university)

"The arabesque is an artistic motif that is characterized by the application of repeating geometric forms and fancifully combined patterns; these forms often echo those of plants and animals.[1] Arabesques are, as their name indicates, elements of Islamic art often found decorating the walls of mosques. The choice of which geometric forms are to be used and how they are to be formatted is based upon the Islamic view of the world. To Muslims, these forms, taken together, constitute an infinite pattern that extends beyond the visible material world.

...

Arabesque art consists of a series of repeating geometric forms which are occasionally accompanied by calligraphy. Ettinghausen et al. describe the arabesque as a "vegetal design consisting of full...and half palmettes [as] an unending continuous pattern...in which each leaf grows out of the tip of another."[7] To the adherents of Islam, the Arabesque are symbolic of their united faith and the way in which traditional Islamic cultures view the world."

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabesque]Arabesque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Originally Posted by mathkitty

Despite the name, the actual movement is not related to Middle Eastern dance. It's pulled from decorative style used in pottery and textiles. I would guess it made its into ballet as a way to describe grace and elegance.

yes, I had overlooked your reference.

I know it indeed rather from the decorations of palaces and from calligraphy.
The "arabesque" was admired througout Europe (in the golden era of Islam I mean). It's so complex and so hard to figure out how they managed to calculate sometimes huge, intricate ornaments (obviously great at maths, but the mystery of how it was calculated hasn't been solved yet as far as I remember the words of my prof.

Originally Posted by Nouria

I'm really interested in this topic.

I'm not really thinking ballet, but rather modern dance, contemporary dance and so on.

I have heard ppl. stating that modern Egyptian dancing was influenced by the teachings of (Western) modern dance.

And vice versa, that modern Western dance owes everything to oriental dance.
.

I don't know that modern Western dance owes everything to Oriental dance, but as I mentioned in my first post, it absolutely influenced the many founders of the contemporary dance movement. For example, Ruth St. Dennis researched Oriental culture, worked with Asian dancers and musicians and developed performances based on her interpretations of Indian & Egyptian mythology among other things.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7gES8QJfJ8&feature=related]YouTube - The Serpentine Dance[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1jyD0QiTsQ&feature=related]YouTube - Ted Shawn's Cosmic Dance of Siva[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8XvHX1FKsY&feature=related]YouTube - Ruth St Dennis in the 'Indian Noche' (1932)[/ame]

BTW, I really like the clips you posted. They're very interesting.

Yes, and one of the key early influences on jazz/modern dance, whose name eludes me, was a Very Close Friend of St Denis' husband Ted Shawn and I think involved in the Denishawn company.

what distinguishes oriental dance from classical ballet would probably be sth. similar that in the West the modern dance pioneers introduced in our world - like the relationship with the earth, gravity and other things

Also a quaint little concept called culture. I repeat, it is dangerous to make assumptions about dance on the grounds of movement alone.

Having said that though, when we're talking movement, I think the relationship with the ground and with gravity are key differences, yes. Ballet tends to have a sense about it that the dancers are in fact without weight and can defy gravity. The only reason they're on the ground is because they want to be. With us, the ground and gravity are always present. We know we're coming down, we push through the floor*, we do things at the normal human level. We have no desire to fly.

*They do that for ballet too but it's different - it's only as a springboard to get higher, as if there were a barrier that, once you get through it, you'd become weightless in reality and you wouldn't come down. We work with the floor not against it.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Yes, and one of the key early influences on jazz/modern dance, whose name eludes me, was a Very Close Friend of St Denis' husband Ted Shawn and I think involved in the Denishawn company.

Jack Cole - I knew I should have tested everyone after the lecture. ..g.:

I knew it began with C!

Ballet owes its survival in the West to Russian Orientalism. Ballet in W Europe and the US was on a respirator until the Ballet Russe hit Paris; the preponderance of French divas and technique-instead-of-dancing had killed audience enthusiasm and respect. If you subscribe to the 'music drives the dance' concept then the contribution of Russian Orientalism went far beyond arabesques.

Laurel Gray seems to feel that the Ballet Russe did the same for 'belly dance' - whether for good or ill.
Russian Orientalism and the Ballet Russe

And, for your additional reading pleasure, an 1892 article from the New York Times bidding ballet goodbye and good riddance:
The New York Times

Cool, Maura, thanks. I've recently read a book about Leon Bakst, the how do you call it? Stage designer? He made the settings and the costumes for the ballets russes, and he was delving into the ancient times to seek inspiration before greek classicism in Crete and Egypt and they also did purely orientalist ballets that were opulent and fiery, but also the "rites of spring" that were very earthy in their subject, but clearly under the influence of contemporary art, and integrated sort of geometric and abstract moves. (thanks to an American university teacher I got to see a bit of a historical recording of the "rites of spring" that caused a scandal).

But is there a proof that their dancing was influenced from oriental dancing? I didn't know about that!

My impression was that it was more look and themes than actual dance concepts. Rite of Spring certainly has nothing to do with the Orient at all. It's been suggested some of Niinsky's inspiration for the very unballetic movements he used was the posture and walking style of mental health patients in the asylum where his brother lived. And I'm sure there are plenty of other theories.

I've read the article Maura posted and would interprete it in the way, that the ballets russes instilled certain orientalist expectations in the audiences that may reflect on the practice of bellydance or at least the audiences expectation when anything oriental is presented, but not that real arabic dancing has influenced ballet movement language? At least the article doesn't expand on that.

I think it is actually interesting to look at this clip here, even though ballet is playing with tango, not with bellydance.

I think she's a great dancer but I don't quite follow her idea of tango. I see moves that seem to stem from western competition ballroom dancing, a vaudeville play with the flower that to me connects to the eternal idea of any southern or dark haired people as street artists and probably thieves, gypsies or Italians that do their tricks, and certain impressive moves that are pretty violent. Of course the lack of a partner needs to portray the tango woman differently, but she picked up some cliché as well IMHO, like what is being said by the articles about the ballets russes.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISe9B95mTp8&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Jeanine Mason[/ame]

Btw. bellydancers, when fusing f.e. flamenco into their performances, they often seem to be happy to play also a bit on the cliché side of the thing, just bring in a bit of the attitude seen as enough to make your performance different.

That's a cool dance, but it's got no relationship to tango at all other than the piece of music she's dancing to. I like the bit where she positions her arms as if being held by a partner (but what she does there isn't what you tend to get in tango).

Yes, you're right, she's drawing on stereotypes to present a kind of flavour for her dance. Heh, a tango friend of mine uses the term "red and black" disparagingly for "rose between the teeth" tango performances. It's very red and black.

Originally Posted by Nouria

I've read the article Maura posted and would interprete it in the way, that the ballets russes instilled certain orientalist expectations in the audiences that may reflect on the practice of bellydance or at least the audiences expectation when anything oriental is presented, but not that real arabic dancing has influenced ballet movement language? At least the article doesn't expand on that.

Yes, Nouria, I believe that is one of the points that Gray is making.

If you accept Gray's premise that 'oriental' meant something different to the Russians than 'oriental' does to MED and belly dancers, then I know of no proof that MED influenced Russian ballet and don't expect to find any. The Russians managed to maintain the original Romantic ballet forms while the French were leading most of the Western world's ballet down the path to extinction. I was responding at a bit of a tangent (but an interesting one ) to the original question about MED influence on ballet by presenting Ms Gray's suggestion that what exerted a strong influence on ballet was the Russian brand of Orientalism (based on interactions with cultures in which Ms Gray is an expert) which in many ways filled the same need as ours for exotic settings and mysterious 'others.' I was also suggesting that if one accepts the premise that the music drives the dance, then the sea-change in ballet music used by the Ballet Russe (and ditto in the 30s when Massine 'invented' symphonic ballet) would be another reason that folks might jump to the the conclusion that oriental dance influenced ballet... but based on the links I am providing, it would be too far a stretch to be accurate. It is more a case of name collision. There was a sea-change but it wasn't due to MED.

all i have to say Arabesque, arab esque. not a coincidence.

While we're figuring out who influenced who, check out this 90-second 'history of the Middle East'. It blew my mind.
http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

Originally Posted by maurazebra

While we're figuring out who influenced who, check out this 90-second 'history of the Middle East'. It blew my mind.
http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

wow! i would like to see more!

I'm a late-comer to this thread, but I did find something on this in a history book about the ancient Middle East. According to what I read, ballet started in the Ottoman Empire, moved to Greece (was performed in the Greek theaters), to Italy, then was adopted in France (and banned in Vienna's Court Theater by Antoinette's brother, Josef), and finally to Russia where the history is quite well-known. My personal opinion,Nisreen...you got a great lesson from that workshop. ;) Here's a link about ballet's history, for those unconvinced: Ballet - New World Encyclopedia

I ALWAYS tell my students to read history books. You're not going to (usually) learn much about this dance otherwise.

Originally Posted by Chenum

I'm a late-comer to this thread, but I did find something on this in a history book about the ancient Middle East. According to what I read, ballet started in the Ottoman Empire, moved to Greece (was performed in the Greek theaters), to Italy, then was adopted in France (and banned in Vienna's Court Theater by Antoinette's brother, Josef), and finally to Russia where the history is quite well-known. My personal opinion,Nisreen...you got a great lesson from that workshop. ;) Here's a link about ballet's history, for those unconvinced: Ballet - New World Encyclopedia

I ALWAYS tell my students to read history books. You're not going to (usually) learn much about this dance otherwise.

According to your link, it originates in Italy, no mention of the Ottoman Empire:

"Dance is prominent throughout history. Traditions of narrative dance evolved in China, India, Indonesia, and Ancient Greece. Theatrical dance was well-established in the wider arena of ancient Greek theater. When the Romans conquered Greece, they assimilated Greek dance and theater with their art and culture.[2] While dance continued to be important throughout the Middle Ages, in spite of occasional suppression by the Church, ballet as a recognizable dance form did not emerge until the late 1400s, in Italy. While Italy may be credited with the inception of the ballet tradition, the French enabled it to blossom. Incorporating aspects of Italian ballet, French ballet gained prominence and influenced the dance genre internationally. To this day, the majority of ballet vocabulary originates from French."

Sorry, I tried to find a credible online source that traced from the Ottomans (or anywhere in the Middle East, for that matter), but was too tired last night to keep looking. As I said, I read this in a history book, not online. I hate trying to research things online as the information is generally incomplete or incorrect, in my experience. I found a few links, but am not satisfied with them: Rediscover Ancient Egypt - FAQs about pyramids, Tutankhamen, mummies, pharaohs, etc. (look under ballet on this page)
This link is to a book on the history of ballet: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Ballet-Modern-Dance-Concise-History/dp/0871271729]Amazon.com: Ballet and Modern Dance: A Concise History (9780871271723): Jack Anderson: Books[/ame] (read editorial and customer reviews for information on Greek connection to modern ballet)
One more from a book by Carol Lee: Ballet in western culture: a history ... - Google Books

I'm on a dial-up connection right now, so it is very difficult and time-consuming for me to find anything online. If anyone is truly interested, there are numerous history books available that are much more informative than online links. But, I hope these links are helpful as a starting off point.

I don't want to rain on your parade, and the book you've linked to may well be excellent, but I've read chapters on Middle Eastern dance in *reputable* and fairly recent dance textbooks that repeat the old Neolithic fertility dance crap. Because ours is a minority dance form, not really of interest to ballet and contemporary dance students except as a curiosity, they don't exactly pursue cutting edge research into the form.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I don't want to rain on your parade, and the book you've linked to may well be excellent, but I've read chapters on Middle Eastern dance in *reputable* and fairly recent dance textbooks that repeat the old Neolithic fertility dance crap. Because ours is a minority dance form, not really of interest to ballet and contemporary dance students except as a curiosity, they don't exactly pursue cutting edge research into the form.

No rain here. I very rarely read dance books myself. Surprisingly, I've read a great number of websites, flyers, and such from Bellydancers (!) espousing the very fertility dance hypothesis you write of.

I linked to these particular history books as they traced back the *history* of ballet's origins, which is the subject of this thread.

What I'm saying is that the "history" of these books is not always as well researched as you might think. Sachs, significantly critiqued for decades, is a reference in that book as he tends to be for anything "ancient". Also, what people were doing in France or Italy in 1400 hasn't really got that much to do with Ottoman dance since they were not part of the Ottoman empire.

The evolutionary model when applied to dance is a real bugbear of mine. If you follow it, well of course oriental dance might have a connection, since All People did bird dances and then when they got a bit more civilised they did pelvic dances and eventually as they become properly civilised they start walking about in a courtly manner and LO, the most evolved people have ballet. If it sounds like nonsense, well... that's because it probably is. Or rather, it's FAR too simplistic and Eurocentric.

The chapter you link to traces early examples of narrative dance. Belly dance is not narrative dance. Also, it's totally possible for different peoples to develop narrative art forms at different times and in different ways. Dance is not outside culture.

It's "serious" books about "real" dance forms that continue to espouse these ideas that *encourage* belly dancers to believe some of the most damaging myths of our dance form.

We don't have to be the root of ballet or of anything else to be worthwhile.