Thread: Is it "Dated?" Or Classic?

Somewhat of a spin-off from the "Dated Teaching Methods" thread. I recently watched "Nadia Gamal: The Legend." In it I saw her doing the following "dated" things: Floorwork; wearing a face veil; playing finger cymbals; tucked pelvis and bent knees and high energy level. She also spoke to the audience and cracked jokes (wish they had put in subtitles!).

A lot of these things are considered passé now, at least in Modern Egyptian style . But I consider them classic and beautiful. And there are interesting similarities to the American Cabaret style that I learned in the 70's and 80's. She must have been a huge influence on the American dance scene back then.

Nadia Gamal was born in Egypt, made her dance debut in Lebanon, and became a huge star in Egypt and throughout the Middle East. She influenced Bobby Farrah and Suhaila Salimpour, among others.

In other clips she does a wild zar dance, a short veil routine and dances with a frame drum. In a clip from a movie, the singer Sabah is shown going through the audience and collecting tips in a tambourine.

Of course styles change and evolve but I don't think the classics are ever "wrong" or even outdated, really. Some dancers will represent the newest and latest, others emulate styles of the past. I think that is beautiful and gives a variety of styles for dancers to choose from.

It just bothers me a little when people are so sure that something is "outdated" or "wrong" because it is not currently in vogue in their particular circle.

Youtube is an amazing source of dance information!

Any thoughts about "dated" vs "current" styles?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEFNil8v7gM&NR=1]YouTube - The Legend - Nadia Gamal[/ame]

Interesting topic.

This isn't directly on point but I came across some videos on youtube today of some dancers dancing at a Greek festival that I used to dance at in the 1990's. Back then, the dancers always danced to a live Greek band or a band playing Greek/Arabic music. (Once I danced with the famous Sultans.)

Now this Greek festival featured belly dancers dancing to Arabic CDs. No Greek music at a Greek festival. That just seems so wrong to me! But current local dancers have never been exposed to dancing to Greek music as the clubs all closed in the late 90's.

I love Eygptian style and music and it is very popular here but you'd think if you were dancing at a Greek festival you would use some Greek music!

I think Nadia Gamal's dancing stands the test of time. She's a classic.

Originally Posted by norma

...
I love Eygptian style and music and it is very popular here but you'd think if you were dancing at a Greek festival you would use some Greek music!

One would think!

Originally Posted by norma

I think Nadia Gamal's dancing stands the test of time. She's a classic.

Agreed. Classic.

I totally agree!....Things come and go, back in and out of Style. What's old becomes new again....what others discover, is really rediscovered....It's not wrong. What I am amazed in, is how each dancer can do the same move that others do , but somehow their individuality,as a person, makes it their own(make sense?). I learn so much from the new teachers ,but I never stop learning from the "old" school...I am so blessed to have learned this dance in the time that I have. I had a teacher that shared and exposed me to "The Greats". I love my dance roots!

If it makes your heart sing and if audiences enjoy it who cares if it's in fashion? So tiresome to be tied to/limited by those kinds of arbitrary conventions. At some point everything comes back anyway. Nadia is wonderful!

Originally Posted by dunyah

Of course styles change and evolve but I don't think the classics are ever "wrong" or even outdated, really. Some dancers will represent the newest and latest, others emulate styles of the past. I think that is beautiful and gives a variety of styles for dancers to choose from.

I think it is important to make a distinction between things that are changed for specific reasons (exercise physiologists now believe that bouncing while stretching increases the likelihood of injury; societal norms frown on stereotypes like the gypsy fortune teller shtick), as opposed to things that were changed on a "whim of progress" (the bedlah with long, heavy fringe was replaced by the minimalist two-piece costume; veils were replace/augmented with Isis wings, fan veils, and voi). The "whims of progress" don't negate the older way of doing things. They just change for the sake of being different.

Any thoughts about "dated" vs "current" styles?

I am eagerly awaiting the day when elevator drops go out of style. That one can't get "dated" soon enough for me. I can has dance without squatting now?

I think there is a difference between teaching something as a 'snap shot' in time or something that was unique to a dancer of the past and just being a 'dated teacher' with old fashioned ideas about what belly dance was and is.

Nadia Gamal style can be taught like anything else.. but certain styles will look dated if not put into context. A dated dance class is not so much about what is being taught as a focus but the whole way in which it is done.

It is a bit like people who get dressed up for an 80's theme party and those who never left it.

I think you should do what you love, period.
I am a little sad that some of my dated/classic training is SO classic that people now think it is new/innovative. sigh. on the other hand, I guess it makes me look 'fresh' in the middle of the fan veils & isis wings. still not brave/gauche enough to swing chairs in my teeth (besides, my teeth cost too much!) ;)

Hmmm....

Classic: trends, performances, styles that transcend time because they still speak to people and are relavent to the audience today.

Dated: I think something is dated when it just doesn't work anymore. Things our society/audience/dancers just don't understand or like anymore, but worked in the past. Doesn't mean they are bad.

Refreshed/brought back: Dated trends tweaked to make them effective and palatable to today's audience. Like fashion things keep coming back, but not in the exact same way.

Nadia Gamal is a dancer that still speaks to audiences today, she's classic even if she is using techniques that in the hands of a less skilled dancer would be dated - cause we wouldn't "get" it, but from her - we do..g.:.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

I think there is a difference between teaching something as a 'snap shot' in time or something that was unique to a dancer of the past and just being a 'dated teacher' with old fashioned ideas about what belly dance was and is.

Nadia Gamal style can be taught like anything else.. but certain styles will look dated if not put into context. A dated dance class is not so much about what is being taught as a focus but the whole way in which it is done.

It is a bit like people who get dressed up for an 80's theme party and those who never left it.

I think this is the part where one person's "dated" is another's style!..l;,

Actually, what Nadia Jamal did back then wasn't really considered classic but very innovative. No one danced like her before...she incorporated lots jazz to her dancing. In the folkloric set of the "Legend" DVD, she is wearing a niqab (face veil) because she is dancing to a bedouin song (Galbi Hawak by Samira Toufic). This makes sense in the context of the song she's dancing to.

She influenced all the Lebanese dancers after her although "Modern" Lebanese style has evolved since then. The high energy is still there though.

Originally Posted by Lara L

still not brave/gauche enough to swing chairs in my teeth (besides, my teeth cost too much!) ;)

According to the very old video I've seen of dancers doing this and the comment by Cassandra Shore on Facebook that Ghawazee dancers sometimes still do this today, you could very well consider this a classic move. ..g.: