Thread: So is belly dancing just plain boring?

When I first started belly dancing I just LOVED it. Belly dancing was so unique, only the strong and brave attempted to dance professionally. It was not mainstream at all in the US. We just gobbled up whatever we could from overseas but every dancer had her own unique style. I used to just love to go to restaurants and watch dancers dance to a live band.

But, now some 30 years later, I get bored watching belly dancers. I still get a thrill watching some great moments of great dancers, but in general I'm bored with the majority of what I see out there. Even if they dance to a live band they are doing combos after combos rather than feeling the music and going with it. And I LOVE belly dancing! But most of what I'm seeing just falls flat. I'm so sick of over-choreographed, fusion type dancing.

So, if I'm bored, what about the general GP who doesn't love the art, the music, the culture, etc. They don't appreciate the nuances and subtly of Egyptian music and style. They are looking for tricks and stunts, etc.

I think that the more belly dancing tries to become mainstream and acceptable to the GP, the more boring it gets.

I agree with you Norma. I fell in love with belly dancing because it seemed so taboo. I love to see a good dancer dance to live music, but the more mainstream belly dancing seems to get, the more boring it seems to me. I'm glad someone else feels this way.

Without getting into the debate of old school vs. new school, where belly dance is heading, etc, etc, I will say that I think belly dance IS boring to most of the general public, as is dance in general.

Most people who enjoy watching dance are dancers. I don't think this is unique to belly dance, and although some dance styles have more appeal and are more exciting to "normal" people than belly dance, most people just don't go out of their way to watch dance on a regular basis. Most people get bored watching it. It's not that they don't think it's hard (although sometimes they don't), it's just not that interesting...

And I'm OK with that. There are plenty of arts and activities out there that are amazing and few people who don't do them would care. That's OK. It's a big world out there and we are all allowed to have our interests and disinterests and I don't feel the need to make someone like belly dance as much as I do, just like I wouldn't want a fencer always trying to convince me that fencing is the coolest thing in the world.

I definitely agree with Yameyameyame about the general public's perception.

But I also think that after a certain point, one can become jaded. I've seen so much belly dancing, that it really takes a lot to impress me these days. Things that would have impressed me years ago don't today because I have so much more knowledge and experience as a basis for comparison, and I've developed an almost hyper-critical eye.

I think some of this isn't the dance itself, but the performers. There are a lot of nice-but-blah dancers out there. The problem isn't their dance technique, but the intangibles that make people want to watch them. Not everybody has "it." Actually, very few people do.

I also don't think it helps when dancers draw from the same tiny pool of music over and over. You have to have a lot of stage presence and creativity to do something interesting with a song that's already been danced to a hundred times. (Oh, how imaginative...a veil piece to "Yearning" followed by a baladi piece to "Al Hantour." That's fresh.)

After 12 years, I think regard this as a dance of such variety and beauty and strength that I can't ever imagine being bored by it.
But of course there are boring dancers.

Originally Posted by norma

they are doing combos after combos rather than feeling the music and going with it.

This. Overrehearsed or overly intellectualized dancing bores me to tears. This can include improv when the dancer seems to be calculating to create an impression rather than feeling her music.

We've talked about it before, this element of *rawness* that's missing from a lot of professional performances.

Never when it's done well. Definitions of "well" will vary.

Agree with Yame - straight dance in general (unless combined with a musical performance) is pretty boring to the GP.

Toubeau hit it on the head for me - too "nice" - what I would call "being pretty". Couple weeks ago I sat through a 6.5 hour show, and embarassingly found myself making a cynical analogy between some of the performances and elevator music - pretty, happy, non-offensive - but completely boring. Where was the personality? passion? Joy is not boring!!

Ideally I want both, but I would prefer to watch someone with personality over bland with stellar technique. This is something I work on - my mentor told me I need to "take risks" both emotionally and physically....ugly me up, don't worry about pretty. Life is not "pretty".

Is this a result of competitions influencing the style? Are we afraid to open ourselves up and be ourselves on stage? Perhaps the Egyptian style of being subtle is being miss-interpreted and resulting in a lack of personality? Over choreographed- knocking out all of the little oddities that are interesting? Do we lack any other motivating vision for our dance besides pretty/happy? Is this what the paying gigs demand therefore it is what we do? Or do we just overwhelmingly lack performance skills??

....I have no idea.

Meredith

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I also don't think it helps when dancers draw from the same tiny pool of music over and over. You have to have a lot of stage presence and creativity to do something interesting with a song that's already been danced to a hundred times. (Oh, how imaginative...a veil piece to "Yearning" followed by a baladi piece to "Al Hantour." That's fresh.)

I think this is another problem with the mainstreaming of the dance. Our music has become more attainable than ever, but now a lot of it is also conveniently distributed through major Big Box retail outlets. This makes it too tempting to just swing by Borders on the way home from work and pick up the new BDSS CD, rather than devoting the time and energy to researching and discovering new favorites.

I mean, once upon a time, before I started dancing, people had to actively search for good recorded music - or, horror of all horrors, improv to live music ..c::

ETA: I'm definitely not "above" using Nourhanne's Habibi Ya Eini or Drama Queen for general public audiences. Many songs on the BDSS CD's are nice for American crowds. But it can be very rewarding to challenge yourself to discover new music, or revisit the classics!

Nisima here and I agree with you and Norma. But it isn't boring nowadays, it looks very watered-down to me and I have my ideas of why this is.

I've been dancing/performing over 20 years and the main difference IMO between "now" and "back then" is that as students we were all encouraged at almost every class to "make the dance your own" by learning how to improvise to music rather than just doing combo after combo after combo. The teachers made us do it; we were encouraged to dance just a bit out of our comfort zone in ORDER TO GROW in belly dance. It was not all about set choreograhy unless of course dancing with troupe. We were trained back then if we understood the framework of ME music we needed to learn how to improvise rather than rely on a "set" choreography. The reason given to me by many teachers was the idea that "improvisation" was just as an important aspect of ME dance as choreography and we need to grow beyond being on stage and "counting" our way through a routine.

Fast forward to "now" and "choreography" reigns supreme; so much so that I see students who even after years of regular classes and performances are simply terrified at the prospect of just getting up and dancing to ME music, afraid they will be "boring" when in actuality, it is boring to watch them go through their routines by rote! So much so that it is difficult for their teacher to even get them to express emotion. I've had many troupe-mates who ask me how I can "freestyle" so easily and they look at me blankly when I explain that it's having a "loose framework" of entrance, exit, veil and/or drum solo steps that will fit into any ME music.

Of course this speaks to the dance training, but it's hard to fault belly dance teachers who are facing incredible economic pressure now to retain students, many of whom are mainstream and simply do not want to take belly dance as the dance art form it is. They say they want to "have fun and express themselves".

No matter how many times the troupe director tells them, these type of students do not accept that there is a difference between "student recital" and "paid staged performance". Of course, it is the director's job to make the tough decisions, but again, the economic pressure to retain paying students wreaks havoc with setting standards.

It's a very complicated and difficult situation, which is why I do not have a troupe!

Well said, Nisima! :) I agree with you (...and Norma, and Satin, and Yame3...and...et al:))

Originally Posted by Nisima

Fast forward to "now" and "choreography" reigns supreme; so much so that I see students who even after years of regular classes and performances are simply terrified at the prospect of just getting up and dancing to ME music

This is one of the reasons I got frustrated with classes. It was choreo, choreo, choreo. We NEVER did any improv. Now I've been dancing for 4 years and still feel like a beginner because I can't improv. I gave up on classes because I wasn't learning anything and started watching classic Egyptian performances to try to learn it on my own.

Once I started watching the great dancers, I realized why I was getting turned off by a lot of modern BD stylings. Many modern dancers seem to focus on making it look hard (i.e., highly technical), whereas my favorite and most entertaining classic Egyptians made it look easy.

Well if you want someone who doesn't do combo after combo and relys on personality on stage, come see me.;)

I know what you mean tho.

Oh Norma, you're singing the good old times-song - which you are absolutely entitled to, but before you just talk bad about modern fusion dancers, go to see this: she's fresh, fabulous and what a princess!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Yt0ZHYKxI]YouTube - Beatbox Guitar performs "Locked" with Irina Akulenko @ the Tea Lounge Jan.31.09[/ame]

and check out Camellia, she's rowdy, fun and hot!

Agree with all of the above. Actually, I ask myself the same when I see people pulling out exotic accessory after exotic accessory and searching for the latest fads and fusions....
Is belly dance so boring that we constantly have to bring in new make it interesting?

No, it's not. And yes, it depends on the performer. Do not even try to impress me - just dance well! From your heart and to the music. That's all I want.
I enjoy a little fusion or whatever thrown in for variety if I watch a 2 hours show. But in general just plain good dancing is all I need.

MEISSOUN

I agree with a little of everything said. No, I don't think bellydancing is boring...I still love learning & performing and I have a lot more to learn! BUT I do get bored sometimes with what I see, and I think we all do at various points in our dance career.
There's also something to be said about the "specialness" of a hobby that goes mainstream(ish) and what that can sometimes do to our feelings about it. I fell out of love with aerial silks for a little biit when it looked like everyone was doing it, and I wonder about hooping sometimes. But that has to do with my ego...am I only interested in being a big fish in a small pond or can I challenge myself to be better, interesting, evolving in the arts that I love?

In any case, I truly agree with yameyameyame...I'm not in it for bellydancing to rule the world, so I'm not going to dwell on whether mainstream visibility will ruin my fun :)

*sigh* I agree with you Norma.

Originally Posted by Nisima

Of course this speaks to the dance training, but it's hard to fault belly dance teachers who are facing incredible economic pressure now to retain students, many of whom are mainstream and simply do not want to take belly dance as the dance art form it is. They say they want to "have fun and express themselves".

The perverse thing about this thinking is that it misses the point. Being able to create your own dances and dance off the top of your head ARE forms of expressing yourself--and they're a much more authentic and joyous way of expressing yourself than chugging through someone else's choreography.

This whole attitude reminds me of the episode of "Family Guy" where Stewie goes to high school. "I took a bunch of pictures. You can see 'em on my MySpace page, along with my favorite songs and movies and things that other people have created but that I use to express my individualism." How are you being you by copying me?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

This whole attitude reminds me of the episode of "Family Guy" where Stewie goes to high school. "I took a bunch of pictures. You can see 'em on my MySpace page, along with my favorite songs and movies and things that other people have created but that I use to express my individualism."

OT but this is why I love that show...

Originally Posted by Linnyg

Well if you want someone who doesn't do combo after combo and relys on personality on stage, come see me.;)

I know what you mean tho.

LOL, me too.

Originally Posted by Meredith

Is this a result of competitions influencing the style? Are we afraid to open ourselves up and be ourselves on stage? Perhaps the Egyptian style of being subtle is being miss-interpreted and resulting in a lack of personality? Over choreographed- knocking out all of the little oddities that are interesting? Do we lack any other motivating vision for our dance besides pretty/happy? Is this what the paying gigs demand therefore it is what we do? Or do we just overwhelmingly lack performance skills??

....I have no idea.

Meredith

It's only a very small percentage of dancers that are involved in competitions. IMO what we are seeing is the result of a generation (or two!) of dancers learning from teachers that don't have a background doing improv and connecting with live music...or even have that much of a performing background period.

~~Kimahri

Originally Posted by Suzana

Never when it's done well. Definitions of "well" will vary.

this

Originally Posted by Nisima

Nisima here and I agree with you and Norma. But it isn't boring nowadays, it looks very watered-down to me and I have my ideas of why this is.

I've been dancing/performing over 20 years and the main difference IMO between "now" and "back then" is that as students we were all encouraged at almost every class to "make the dance your own" by learning how to improvise to music rather than just doing combo after combo after combo. The teachers made us do it; we were encouraged to dance just a bit out of our comfort zone in ORDER TO GROW in belly dance. It was not all about set choreograhy unless of course dancing with troupe. We were trained back then if we understood the framework of ME music we needed to learn how to improvise rather than rely on a "set" choreography. The reason given to me by many teachers was the idea that "improvisation" was just as an important aspect of ME dance as choreography and we need to grow beyond being on stage and "counting" our way through a routine.

Fast forward to "now" and "choreography" reigns supreme; so much so that I see students who even after years of regular classes and performances are simply terrified at the prospect of just getting up and dancing to ME music, afraid they will be "boring" when in actuality, it is boring to watch them go through their routines by rote! So much so that it is difficult for their teacher to even get them to express emotion. I've had many troupe-mates who ask me how I can "freestyle" so easily and they look at me blankly when I explain that it's having a "loose framework" of entrance, exit, veil and/or drum solo steps that will fit into any ME music.

Of course this speaks to the dance training, but it's hard to fault belly dance teachers who are facing incredible economic pressure now to retain students, many of whom are mainstream and simply do not want to take belly dance as the dance art form it is. They say they want to "have fun and express themselves".

No matter how many times the troupe director tells them, these type of students do not accept that there is a difference between "student recital" and "paid staged performance". Of course, it is the director's job to make the tough decisions, but again, the economic pressure to retain paying students wreaks havoc with setting standards.

It's a very complicated and difficult situation, which is why I do not have a troupe!

Amen.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

The perverse thing about this thinking is that it misses the point. Being able to create your own dances and dance off the top of your head ARE forms of expressing yourself--and they're a much more authentic and joyous way of expressing yourself than chugging through someone else's choreography.

This whole attitude reminds me of the episode of "Family Guy" where Stewie goes to high school. "I took a bunch of pictures. You can see 'em on my MySpace page, along with my favorite songs and movies and things that other people have created but that I use to express my individualism." How are you being you by copying me?

Amen again.

You know what else? The feeling that if you "break a rule" or something - that will absolutely kill an art (or an artist.)

I think too - this business about It Has To Be Egyptian Or It Isn't Authentic.

BALONEY.

There is so much great music - now I love Egyptian music. But what about the vast body of Turkish music? It's great. And there is so much of it - there are so many styles of Turkish music - you know those "Rough Guide" records? You really need 3 or 4 to cover Turkish music.

And you know what else - Arabic music was influenced by Turkish music more than people might realize. Until you get pretty far up the Nile or into the Atlas Mountains there's an Ottoman influence on an awful lot of the music.

Plus, there's Moroccan and other Maghrebi music, there's the really old stuff from al Andalus, Greek music can be great to dance to, Sephardic and Yemenite music is gorgeous, etc etc etc. and to dance to that music you need a different style, a way of moving that isn't Egyptian and there's nothing wrong with that. It's part of being part of the music, being alive and expressive and creative and yourself.

I think that there is some politics, not the usual art politics but political politics in the dance world now and when politics gets into art it's usually very bad. It can just kill creativity. It imposes its own values of Correctness and Rules and that's just death on art, just death.

I am actually beginning to understand and respect the "tribal" dance movement and also sense why they went in that direction.

I would love to dance to live music! Unfortunately, up and coming dancers have a hard time finding musicians to dance with. Oh sure, we can dig up a drummer for a night, or maybe find an oud player or keyboardist...but the opportunity to dance to really good live music just isn't there for most of us. I moved from the Baltimore area (where there IS good live music) to the Eastern Shore, where there is not. So short of kidnapping my favorite musicians.....I'm stuck with canned music and an audience that doesn't understand the difference.

Originally Posted by Kimahri

It's only a very small percentage of dancers that are involved in competitions. IMO what we are seeing is the result of a generation (or two!) of dancers learning from teachers that don't have a background doing improv and connecting with live music...or even have that much of a performing background period.

~~Kimahri

Your probably right for dancers overall, I don't know what the percentages are, but it seems a lot of the younger more serious dancers are entering competitions to gain exposure. Maybe it is a locality thing. But that wasn't really what I was thinking about competitions influencing style though, it was the number of prominent dancers (Aziza, Bozenka, and many others) who got famous for having won a major competition and are now big influences on style. Or in reverse, it is harder to get big without the notoriety of winning a competition and thereby dancers who's style may not be great for competition are getting weeded out. Perhaps all the interest and the fact that a lot name teachers are from competitions is homogenizing the dance somewhat. (Not bashing competitions, just kicking around ideas - I totally plan on entering my first next summer!)

Probably should have put BDSS on my list of potential causes too, but I have never seen them live so I can't talk.

I tend to lean away from the idea that this is an choreo vs improv issue. From what I have seen, both choreo and improv dancers can produce a boring dance. I'm sure I've managed to make both boring!!

Meredith

WATERD DOWN...BINGO!...i still enjoy good dancing. imo , the gp knows more about and is watching more dance due to tv.

...re reading ..guess those of us with ethnic clientel are lucky.