Thread: Tribal fusion. could it be thought of as western concert dance?

So I'm currently taking 20th Century American Dance History as a requirement for my dance minor. A large part of the class is writing a research paper about some aspect of 20th century american dance history. I asked my professor if I could write my paper on belly dance (particularly tribal styles since they are of 20th century american origin). His response was that the topic "might be more appropriate for the dance and culture class" and that the topic should be related to "western concert dance". In all fairness he did say that he wasn't trying to de-value belly dance in any way so it's not that he's being a jerk about it.

I was wondering if it would be possible to make the case that Tribal Fusion is actually western concert dance?
I mean I think it is, since although the foundations of it's movement vocabulary do come from a middle eastern social (and performance) dance, it is really a western dance form and concert dance (since it is meant for performance rather then social or cultural use).


What's even more frustrating is that one of his colleagues (the lovely donna mejia) actually teaches tribal fusion at the college.

What an interesting question!

I agree with the "Western" aspect.
I agree that it's modern, 21st century.

But, "concert" dance? I'm not so sure. I'm torn, and I'm looking forward to seeing other points of view on this thread.

When I think of "concert" dance, I think of the sort of dancing that would regularly be booked at a large concert hall. I think of the Joffrey Ballet, the Pilobolus Dance Theater, etc. Very, very few Western belly dance acts have come even close to being packaged for that market, and the ones that have (such as Bellydance Superstars) are missing some key elements of artistry required to be taken seriously by those venues. (This is not meant to be attack on the merits of the individual dancers, but rather a commentary on how the show is structured and staged.)

I still think of Tribal Fusion as more of a "social" dance than as a "concert" dance, even though I agree with your comment that it is designed to be performed. That's because of the venues where it flourishes: festivals like Tribal Fest, haflas, seminar shows, etc. Ie, the audience is full of other dancers - especially other tribal-style dancers. It's people taking turns performing for each other, and that's exactly what women do in the homes in Egypt as a social activity.

I'm not sure. What are the standards for calling something "western" dance? Or any kind of cultural/geographic category?

I also agree with Shira on the concert part.

All I can say is how bloody annoying, that would be an excellent paper to write. TF is most definitely an American performance dance development and you *might* be able to trace it back to the early moderns without too much difficulty, not to mention being able to incorporate the more recent associations with and reworkings of burlesque and vaudeville.

Uneducated question follows...

Does concert dance necessarily involve a theme, a plot or a story or can it also be a series of moving tableaux (sp)?

Definitely "western" (ie created and performed in US and (possibly) European countries) Little if any "cultural" left - lots of foreign movement and usually totally foreign approach and attitude. Problem is "Tribal Fusion" can cover a huge variety of dance - much not fused with Tribal (let alone belly dance ..g.: )

I don't really follow the tribal scene, but wasn't the whole point of Le Serpent Rouge and The Indigo to create theatrical, stage-based, intentioned, performance art using modern tribal dance?

I think tribal has a lot in common with the modern dance movement- even down to early performance venues- artists like Loie Fuller et al certainly performed in a wide range of venues! Modern dance also drew on African and orientalist influences at various points as well, so the concept of taking disparate influences from around the world to make a new, distinct art form is hardly unique to tribal either.

I think you could make a very strong case for Tribal as modern, western concert dance. I don't want you to be marked down in class, but *I* want you to write that paper anyway!

ps- just because one of his colleagues teaches tribal doesn't mean he necessarily has the first clue about what tribal *is.* Many people hear belly dance & assume traditional middle eastern, or some kind of middle eastern fusion (stress on middle eastern, yeah?) so that might be where his comment came from.

I hope when you finish it, you'll make the paper available to us!! I'd love to read it!

Are there some specific criteria for the category "western concert dance"?
I could google it, but what is it in terms of your professor and your course studies?
*serious question, no agenda.

Originally Posted by LiesaB.

Are there some specific criteria for the category "western concert dance"?
I could google it, but what is it in terms of your professor and your course studies?
*serious question, no agenda.

I'm curious about this too because offhand I'd say yes - it could be a matter of seriousness/quality however -

?

I actually think what he's saying is "please write the paper about one of the major dance forms I'm familiar with so I can grade it along with the others and don't have to spend hours researching subject matter to see whether you've done your homework or not, AND so you're getting the dance education I'm supposed to be offering you."

I'm not being facetious -- I'm just playing devil's advocate. If his goal with the assignment and the class is to deepen people's understanding of the conventional dance arts [of which I'm certain he has a mental list), then writing a paper about something else doesn't serve the goals of his class.

If a student made it through the program with a deep understanding of tribal fusion and other very obscure arts but didn't know much about Martha Graham, Twyla Tharp, or Alvin Ailey, they wouldn't be very educated about modern dance in the US, really.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I actually think what he's saying is "please write the paper about one of the major dance forms I'm familiar with so I can grade it along with the others and don't have to spend hours researching subject matter to see whether you've done your homework or not, AND so you're getting the dance education I'm supposed to be offering you."

I'm not being facetious -- I'm just playing devil's advocate. If his goal with the assignment and the class is to deepen people's understanding of the conventional dance arts [of which I'm certain he has a mental list), then writing a paper about something else doesn't serve the goals of his class.

If a student made it through the program with a deep understanding of tribal fusion and other very obscure arts but didn't know much about Martha Graham, Twyla Tharp, or Alvin Ailey, they wouldn't be very educated about modern dance in the US, really.

Good point!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I actually think what he's saying is "please write the paper about one of the major dance forms I'm familiar with so I can grade it along with the others and don't have to spend hours researching subject matter to see whether you've done your homework or not, AND so you're getting the dance education I'm supposed to be offering you."

I'm not being facetious -- I'm just playing devil's advocate. If his goal with the assignment and the class is to deepen people's understanding of the conventional dance arts [of which I'm certain he has a mental list), then writing a paper about something else doesn't serve the goals of his class.

If a student made it through the program with a deep understanding of tribal fusion and other very obscure arts but didn't know much about Martha Graham, Twyla Tharp, or Alvin Ailey, they wouldn't be very educated about modern dance in the US, really.

That's definitely a valid point, but the question then becomes whether the teacher is holding all of his students to this standard, or if he is only applying it in this case. If everybody else is turning in papers on Jerome Robbins and Bob Fosse, then tribal probably isn't an appropriate topic, but if somebody else is going to pull an A for writing about ISO doing their five-legged dance to "Psycho Killer," then tribal ought to be fair game for competing with that--at least in the sense of how it fits into BDSS.

Thanks everyone.
Our paper topics are due tomorrow. I plan on submitting one that he's likely to accept(I'm not sure on what though, possibly fossie, fuller, or st dennis), as well as several topic ideas on tribal fusion(he seems like the type of guy who will let me do it if I can make a good case. Maybe something about st dennis and tirbal/ tribal fusion? or how the evolution of the tribal fusion dance scene is mirroring that of modern dance).

I'm not quite sure I agree with shria about it's being a social dance. It is easy to say it's one since the context it evolved from was very much that of a social dance but I think tribal fussion in and of itself is closer to a concert dance since it's not really found in any social context, unless that social context involves some sort of stage. (one could argue that you will find it in a social context if the social group is a bunch of dancers, but that argument would lead to the argument that every dance is a social dance because when a group of dancers gets together they kind of can't help but dance)

I hope I don't have to write about modern dance.:( for some reason I absolutely cannot stand it. I understand it's importance in the dance world, but I really do not like it.

Originally Posted by sahaga89

Thanks everyone.
Our paper topics are due tomorrow. I plan on submitting one that he's likely to accept(I'm not sure on what though, possibly fossie, fuller, or st dennis), as well as several topic ideas on tribal fusion(he seems like the type of guy who will let me do it if I can make a good case. Maybe something about st dennis and tirbal/ tribal fusion? or how the evolution of the tribal fusion dance scene is mirroring that of modern dance).

I'm not quite sure I agree with shria about it's being a social dance. It is easy to say it's one since the context it evolved from was very much that of a social dance but I think tribal fussion in and of itself is closer to a concert dance since it's not really found in any social context, unless that social context involves some sort of stage. (one could argue that you will find it in a social context if the social group is a bunch of dancers, but that argument would lead to the argument that every dance is a social dance because when a group of dancers gets together they kind of can't help but dance)

I hope I don't have to write about modern dance.:( for some reason I absolutely cannot stand it. I understand it's importance in the dance world, but I really do not like it.

I curious why you don't like modern dance? There are so many forms of it - some of the greatest stuff I think you can easily claim as "modern dance" would include musicals - awesome choreography -

I would have thought tribal fusion is actually an example modern dance, just people haven't gotten around to calling it that; plus of course there was Katherine Dunham, St. Denis, Ted Hughes - probably you could include great burlesque artists, like Sally Rand. That overlaps with a lot of "cabaret" belly dance too - the veils - wings -

Some modern is very balletic, some really "tribal," and some just really sucks, like the dance I saw where the artistes were crawling around the floor on their bellies with flashlights in their mouths.

OK, so that was a classic...l;,..l;,..l;,

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

I curious why you don't like modern dance? There are so many forms of it - some of the greatest stuff I think you can easily claim as "modern dance" would include musicals - awesome choreography -

I would have thought tribal fusion is actually an example modern dance, just people haven't gotten around to calling it that; plus of course there was Katherine Dunham, St. Denis, Ted Hughes - probably you could include great burlesque artists, like Sally Rand. That overlaps with a lot of "cabaret" belly dance too - the veils - wings -
,

Echoing these thoughts...and, when I had to write a paper or thesis type thing, sometimes choosing something that I "didn't like" was more educational for me and more mind opening.

I don't like modern dance because a) it's too general as a dance genre, and b) I frequently find it to be rather contrived. Particularly early modern dance. I do really appreciate the effect it's had on the dance world though.

Why not write about La Meri? She was the first ethnic-style dancer to have her work featured on the concert stage.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Why not write about La Meri? She was the first ethnic-style dancer to have her work featured on the concert stage.

La Meri is awesome!!

Originally Posted by LiesaB.

Echoing these thoughts...and, when I had to write a paper or thesis type thing, sometimes choosing something that I "didn't like" was more educational for me and more mind opening.

You have to address the thing you like in those terms though. You can't write a paper going "Jamila begat Masha who begat Carolena who begat and here's where it gets interesting", you need to draw connections between TF and other traditions in Western concert dance for it to work at all. In fact if you write about BD you need to explain what BD is to the reader, and that alone can take quite a lot of work, especially when you have a tight word limit.

If I cant' write about tribal fusion (I just turned my topics in so here's to hoping he accepts them), I'm probably going to write about the reactions to Rite of Spring, or I'm going to write about Ruth St Denis.