Thread: Men's style Saidi stick dancing

I was watching some video clips of Horacio doing this, and also saw Karim Nagi perform it live last spring. I was wondering if any female dancers here on Bhuz have ever performed this dance as a male, maybe adding facial hair, etc. It looks like it would be really fun to do.

So funny - I was thinking about this yesterday. I took a workshop with Karim Nagi, and we learned men's style before women's style, to learn the roots - and I LOVED being a man for an hour. Okay, so maybe that says something about me. But I sure wish we women could dance men's style!

There are some dancers in my troupe who are DYING to put on mustaches and do this!

The long robe could hide any feminine curves, and they usually wear shoes, so the feet would be covered. Then with a turban and some facial hair the disguise would be complete. Wouldn't it be cool to perform it to an unsuspecting audience at a hafla or something, posing as a guest dancer from out of town. He he, that would be a hoot!

hehehe what a fun idea!

kazafy taught us both men and women's style when he taught cane last year. my style is more 'masculine' when i dance saidi anyway, why not just throw on a robe and a mustache hehehe

Originally Posted by dunyah

I was watching some video clips of Horacio doing this, and also saw Karim Nagi perform it live last spring. I was wondering if any female dancers here on Bhuz have ever performed this dance as a male, maybe adding facial hair, etc. It looks like it would be really fun to do.

Ya know- I feel weird if a man were to dress up as a woman just because he's doing Raqs Sharqi rather than folklore. So it feels a bit wrong to think it's ok the other way round. It seems somehow disrespectful, in a culture where gender identities are so clearly divided.

Even though I've seen the footage of Naima Akif dressing up as a Sa'aidi man in a film ..l;,

Camelia sometimes includes men's style stickwork in her saidi routines, it looks really good. She even had a mock fight with her male backing dancers when I saw her earlier this year!

I've done a variation that was a women's parody of men's tahtib, not an intentional cross-dressing example of the men's dance. Personally, I hate the idea of putting on fake facial hair and pretending to be a guy. If you want to do the men's style, put on a galabeya and do it. You don't need the false mustache. The truth is that unless you are very talented and body aware, you won't fool anyone into thinking you're male when you're not, just because you're holding a larger assaya and wearing a costume without sequins. It takes a lot of effort to cross the gender line--that's why transgendered people often spend thousands of dollars on image coaching. Changing your posture and your mannerisms is not something you do successfully on a lark. It is a hundred times more subtle and pervasive to how you carry yourself than making your hip circles look more Egyptian and less Turkish. This is also why a lot of Baba Karam dances look...well, truthfully...stupid. The dancer isn't really pulling it off. It's not broad and crazy enough to be an obvious farce of the male Jaheli style, and it's not precise enough to look like it's a real guy dancing as that character.

OTOH, if you want comedy, then be as silly as you want. It's much easier to be Milton Berle or John Cleese in a dress than RuPaul. I think there can be a point where comedy can cross the line into looking like an insult to someone else's culture, though. It's a delicate balance.

I think you can take on a "male" persona whilst still doing a female version of the dance. And there is nothing wrong with wearing a galebaya instead of a more pretty saiidi style dress. Not sure about the full cross-dressing thing though, could be offensive even if meant as fun?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

If you want to do the men's style, put on a galabeya and do it.

THANK YOU! Agree 110%...

What's Baba Karam?

I guess what I'd like to do is do the men's style, but as a woman. Like when I did boxing - I had pink gloves, but the boxing was the same - if that makes sense. Mix it in with the women's style. But I know that's a no no. Both culturally (real Egyptians would notice you were mixing men and women's moves and wonder why) and also because apparently it looks strange/bad for a woman to do men's movements - I have heard this from two instructors now.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

What's Baba Karam?

It's a style of dance from Iran that women often do in drag. There is more explanation here Baba Karam | Iranian.com, and a clip that highlights what I was saying.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

I guess what I'd like to do is do the men's style, but as a woman. Like when I did boxing - I had pink gloves, but the boxing was the same - if that makes sense. Mix it in with the women's style. But I know that's a no no. Both culturally (real Egyptians would notice you were mixing men and women's moves and wonder why) and also because apparently it looks strange/bad for a woman to do men's movements - I have heard this from two instructors now.

i think this depends on the instructor. two that i've had didn't find anything wrong with it, but they explained the differences clearly. but i guess it also depends on which of the men's moves you're doing

Maybe Halloween is going to my head, but I am still intrigued. Not that I am doing it or getting ready to do it, but the idea intrigues me.

I was thinking of the cross-dressing performance thing for a "closed" performance with mostly other dancers in the audience.

This video is actually what started the whole train of thought. I thought the gender-bending was really interesting and the dancing very good:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1-EFI34eNw]YouTube - DANÇA DO VENTRE - CL�SSICA[/ame]

And while it wouldn't be easy to pass as a man in an every day situation, I think it could be believable in a dance. Horacio is exquisite, of course, but I think a talented female dancer could imitate the body language in this dance:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJyJ3L_Mufc]YouTube - Ana Saidi (Folklore) by Horacio Cifuentes[/ame]

I just think it would be fun to try. It would be fun to do the men's style in a galabeya, too. I would be hesitant to perform "in drag" at a public performance.