Thread: Percussion vs Melody - compare, contrast, discuss

In searching for various versions of Ba'ed Annak (my current obsession) I found these two examples. Both wonderful interpretations, however I think these serve as two 2 good examples of the different approach to the same song. Any one else have 2 examples of the same concept? Which do you prefer and why?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcjoFMphzeU]YouTube - Sahra Saeeda[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSSzKpR5J7I]YouTube - Baeed Anak بعيد انت - belly dance choreography by Azza[/ame]

I much preferred Sahra Saeeda's, because I felt there was a more pronounced change of pace and "feel" to match the changes in the music. The second dancer rode over it a little, I felt - towards the end when the change came in again I felt she did better, but I'd still have liked to have seen a much more definite change in dance to match the tempo and feel of the music, since it feels (to me) such a very dramatic change.

I stopped watching Sahra's at roughly the same point as the other dancer stopped her dance so that I'd be comparing apples with apples, but there's still stylistic differences (particularly at the start) in the musical arrangements, so naturally leads to quite different interpretations there.

Caveat: my impression of the second dancer was probably impacted by my disappointment with the cuts to the music - I love that song and was gutted that she snipped out what I felt were the "meaty" parts that I wanted to see/hear! ..l;,

I thought Sahra did a better job telling a story thru her dance. Very different interpretations of the same song - hope we see more examples on this topic!

Sahra seems to float on the music in a very lyrical fashion. I am having trouble cutting this music into segments for a choreo because the the rhythms change fro saiidi to rhumba as well as others in the middle of the musical phrasing. Sahra is no slave to these changes by the drummer. She seams to be more outwardly framed and directed than a classic golden age dancer, but her style is much softer than the drum happy dancers so popular today.

Speaking of drums..here is the most lyrical drum solo I have ever seen

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSBcxOPfQ3I&feature=related]YouTube - Orientalisches Trommelsolo / Drumsolo by Horacio Cifuentes[/ame]

Actually I preferred the second version - despite the extreme upper body movement. The first dancer was too pretty and samey (that said she is an excellent dancer); her arms waving about got on my nerves and I wanted some hips and some emotion.

In Karim Nagi's Musicality for Dancers workshop, he told us to dance to the melody not the drums. He said "I'm telling you this as a drummer. I make my living as a drummer, so I shouldn't be saying this. But you should dance to the melody and ignore the drummer." I thought it was a bit extreme, but that's what he said. And of course, to the singer and the lyrics as well.

For purposes of the discussion, does it matter that the first clip is intended to represent the dancing of a particular period?

Originally Posted by dunyah

In Karim Nagi's Musicality for Dancers workshop, he told us to dance to the melody not the drums. He said "I'm telling you this as a drummer. I make my living as a drummer, so I shouldn't be saying this. But you should dance to the melody and ignore the drummer." I thought it was a bit extreme, but that's what he said. And of course, to the singer and the lyrics as well.

haven't watched the clips yet, but this is how I look at it- it's not an either or proposition- yes, you can focus more on the base rhythms, and yes, there are different ways to interpret it- but the base rhythms (and remember the drums are not the only instrument to carry the primary rhythm at times) provide the foundation for the dance- so if you are dancing to the rest of the music, you will be dancing the primary rhythms too. The melody is going to have a different overarching phrasing structure, so it is more fluid if you focus more strongly on those, IMO, but the underlying rhythms are still represented.
every instrument has different embellishments you can pick up on, including drums, and sometimes you need to reference the basic drum rhythm just to get your cadence back.

I am kind of just blabbing while the clips take their time loading... back in a few!

Okay- managed to watch about 2/3 of each (man, my connection is slow today!) and the second dancer is following the melodic phrasing structure just fine- her movements themselves are more percussive, and a bit more grounded/down energy, whereas Sahra's movements are more fluid and carried in a more uplifted space- but I see that as general stylistic differences. To me, both are interpreting the music as a whole.

I have seen less experienced dancers ignore the melodic line completely, but I think that is partly a training thing- breaking out of 'drills' mode & actually listening to the music as a whole- and that doesn't apply to either of these clips.

Originally Posted by Suzana

For purposes of the discussion, does it matter that the first clip is intended to represent the dancing of a particular period?

I think it is good to know what we are comparing, but since this was stated as a cross-genre comparison, I think it's fair game!

i liked parts of both...but if i had to pick, i would choose the 2nd clip. there are more hips and grounded-ness in her dance than the first one.

Here is another version:



..g.:..g.:..g.:

*Randa fangirl sighs*

So much less. And yet sooooooo much more.

I like the Randa performance also, but not because it's either more lyrical or more percussive, simply because it's so expressive.

That's finally the bottom line isn't it. The dance serves the music and what the dancer wants to say - that's my problem with the second dancer although she's very good. The first dancer has a marvelous and very expressive upper body.

The music in the 3rd set though is beyond the other two by about a mile and that has got to help the dancer here, although obviously if she weren't feeling it it wouldn't matter. But one gets the sense that the power of the song is moving right through her body and that's just electric to watch. It's also a key element of the dance, to let that emotion flow through and still maintain the form of the dance -

The second dancer - she's terrific but doesn't seem to feel the song, just my opinion.

In the end, percussive vs melodic, it's so individual but there's no real way to separate the two because each is a vital element of the music, so how we hear/feel it is highly individual and that's a key element of our art I think.

Either way though the movement needs to say something.

Originally Posted by wigglewhiz

*Randa fangirl sighs*

So much less. And yet sooooooo much more.

Less and more is what I want to beeeeee......

When I watched the first clip I thought, not bad but too choppy and contrived. Second clip, oh so much better. Then the Randa clip: Eureka. That is what belly dance should look like.

I was always taught you follow both the music and the drums. My teacher, who was ME, insisted that the dancer was an extension of the orchestra and her body is playing the music of each instrument. Sometimes it's just one (such as a taxim), sometimes it's a question and answer session where the instruments go back and forth in melody, sometimes they all play together, and sometimes it's just the drum.

For the most part if you follow the music you will still be following the drum (unless the band is out of synch) as the drum keeps the rhythm and the melody follows the rhythm, but it's not quite the same as dancing with the music and the drum together. I think Randa did an excellent job of dancing to both.

i like randa's the best :)

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

In the end, percussive vs melodic, it's so individual but there's no real way to separate the two because each is a vital element of the music, so how we hear/feel it is highly individual and that's a key element of our art I think.

Either way though the movement needs to say something.

Exactly. I personally think that the "right" balance between the way we interpret rhythm vs. melody is something that is unique to each individual dancer. We are all hear the music a little bit differently, even though it's the same piece of music, maybe there is a point in the song where one person is really drawn to the sound of the accordion but someone else is just really feeling the drums... I don't think there is a point in telling the first she should be dancing to the rhythm instead or telling the second she should be ignoring it, if that is what they are genuinely feeling than it probably will look better if they can interpret the music as they feel it.

I'm not saying that just because someone is "feeling it" that makes it right, but in this case I really don't think there is a right or wrong, sometimes we choose to dance more percussively and other times more melodically, and some people are more inclined towards one than the other, these are artistic choices individual dancers are allowed to make.

Of course, as others have already mentioned, most of the time it isn't even an either/or proposition, the drums and melody are together in harmony, if you dance to one you are dancing to the other.