Thread: Dancers "bumping" thier hips, arms, forehead with closed fist: what does it mean?

Posted a similar thread in the music forum about the song, Rompi Rompi. It's our next assigned music piece for our solo class. It seems like a playful song.

When I watch dancers dance to it on you tube, there is a lot of fists bumping the hips and also lightly bumping their arms or foreheads. What is this gesture? Should I incorporate it for this dance? I think it looks sort of cool.

Anything else I should know about dancing to this song? Thanks

Romani gestures unlike...say...Indian dance gestures...don't have set narrative meanings.

Added to this is the fact that what you will be told are the meanings will vary greatly depending on who you talk to, what their relationship is to Romani culture, what they might judge YOUR relation to Romani culture to be..yadda yadda yadda. Some gestures (skirt wringing, scrubbing, instruments mimed, making bread) are drawn from real-life, some gestures do have multiple meanings (sweeping the arms in some ways can mean anything from "look at how well I am provided for, my bangles-to-where are my bangles-why aren't you providing more?-this my dear is where your riches should be- washing...) and then there are cuts and hits. Cuts and hits are usually primarily to somewhat show percussive sounds, accents, and can be used over most of the body...sometimes a hit to the hip might indicate your powerful baby-capable hips but might also just mean the music is playing a "Dun"...

Çadırımın Üstüne/Rompi Rompi　is a fun/carefree song. The words rompi rompi are anamodapia (sp?) for the sound of rain on a tin roof /tent and most of the song is about how we may be poor, and have no food or anything else, but god hasn't taken our life yet. So let's put the coffee on and dance and enjoy ourselves.

Originally Posted by Bahtya

Posted a similar thread in the music forum about the song, Rompi Rompi. It's our next assigned music piece for our solo class. It seems like a playful song.

When I watch dancers dance to it on you tube, there is a lot of fists bumping the hips and also lightly bumping their arms or foreheads. What is this gesture? Should I incorporate it for this dance? I think it looks sort of cool.

Anything else I should know about dancing to this song? Thanks

Artemis Mourat's dvd on Turkish style will explain a bit...but she also makes the key point that hits, cuts, and gestures used in Turkish Romani influenced dances are to be used as "ascessories" to the dance, but should not be the bulk of the dance. Use in moderation or risk looking like a crazed mime who hits herself.

Last thing, I promise...you didn't ask but:

Skirt work. If you bring in a lot of skirtwork into your solo, be aware that skirtwork and skirt choreography to Turkish/Romani music generally comes from American Cabaret interpretation and is not traditionally part of Turkish Romani dance. There are some Russian Romani who do do a dance of displaying large skirts (but it isn't that swooshy) there is some skirwtork in Flamenco which also has Romani roots, but some Romani do consider the skirt touching and flipping about to be unclean.

It's not to say that you can't touch your skirt, or even that you can't do American Cabaret skirtwork, just that it isn't Turkish "Gypsy"/Romani and shouldn't be presented as such.

There was a thread about this a few months ago... I think it was called iraqi dance or something like that... you should look for it... lots of info on there.

Originally Posted by Bahtya

Posted a similar thread in the music forum about the song, Rompi Rompi. It's our next assigned music piece for our solo class. It seems like a playful song.

When I watch dancers dance to it on you tube, there is a lot of fists bumping the hips and also lightly bumping their arms or foreheads. What is this gesture? Should I incorporate it for this dance? I think it looks sort of cool.

Anything else I should know about dancing to this song? Thanks

i was taught 9/8 by janaeni rathor. she was taught by the turkish dancers coming in and out of boston.....they are signals, that are cues as to waht you like, dont like. what you will do and not do. there are a few rom that got put in this mix.she taught a rich history about the dancers themselves and their dance. i have carried this on.
the signals are small at first.....them at the end one pulls out all the stops.

Adding to what's already been said -- the fist-bumping is part of Turkish-style bellydance, which comes from the Turkish Romani ("Gypsy") style in particular. You're seeing it because this is a Turkish song in a 9/8 rhythm that is often danced in more or less Romani style. (just like an Egyptian dancer might throw in Saidi moves to a song with a Saidi rhythm).

I wouldn't just add fist-bumping into my dancing unless I was doing Romani-style movement at the same time. So until your teacher has had a chance to work with you some more on the Turkish styling, I'd hold off. Romani style dance is very specific and different from typical bellydance.

(imagine doing the Macarena arm movements while your body is doing hip hop. Very discordant-looking -- or even comical -- to people who are familiar with the dances!)

Elizabeth Artemis Mourat's Turkish DVD is a good place to start learning this style. I also LOVE workshops with Tayyar Adkeniz!

ETA: Just saw the Iraqi movements are mentioned in this thread. Iraqi dance does have some bumping types of movements, but since this song is quintessentially Turkish I wouldn't dance Iraqi style to it. I'd advise my students to either go full-out Turkish, with or without Romani styling. And I'd advise a newer student who hasn't learned the full range of styles yet to 'just bellydance' and not try to imitate a style she wasn't very familiar with.

" And I'd advise a newer student who hasn't learned the full range of styles yet to 'just bellydance' and not try to imitate a style she wasn't very familiar with. "
9/8 has it's own set of steps , not used with any other rythem in the dance .

Originally Posted by zamora

" And I'd advise a newer student who hasn't learned the full range of styles yet to 'just bellydance' and not try to imitate a style she wasn't very familiar with. "
9/8 has it's own set of steps , not used with any other rythem in the dance .

Yes, exactly! If her teacher is going to give them Rompi Rompi to dance to and not teach 9/8 "karsilama" steps, I'd rather not see her trying to do the hand gestures without them.

I assume her teacher IS planning to teach Turkish/Karsilama (and maybe some Romani flavor?) since she chose this song... but we don't know for sure.

Originally Posted by ozma

Last thing, I promise...you didn't ask but:

Skirt work. If you bring in a lot of skirtwork into your solo, be aware that skirtwork and skirt choreography to Turkish/Romani music generally comes from American Cabaret interpretation and is not traditionally part of Turkish Romani dance. There are some Russian Romani who do do a dance of displaying large skirts (but it isn't that swooshy) there is some skirwtork in Flamenco which also has Romani roots, but some Romani do consider the skirt touching and flipping about to be unclean.

It's not to say that you can't touch your skirt, or even that you can't do American Cabaret skirtwork, just that it isn't Turkish "Gypsy"/Romani and shouldn't be presented as such.

CRAP! I was sort of hiding behind my skirt in some parts of the song because the 9/8 is sort of challenging and there are some rhythm changes in the piece where I just flat out can't find the "1" !! If I can't use "skirt work" for this I'm sunk. I will heed your words thought Ozma and Corey and take them into consideration when creating this piece.

Originally Posted by zamora

" And I'd advise a newer student who hasn't learned the full range of styles yet to 'just bellydance' and not try to imitate a style she wasn't very familiar with. "
9/8 has it's own set of steps , not used with any other rythem in the dance .

I am not unfamiliar w/ the 9/8 or Kashlima (Karslima) steps. It's just that sometimes since the 9/8 isn't exacly second nature to me I sometimes get lost in the rhythm (see my above comment). Our teacher has been teaching us the steps and for extra fun, our assignment is to use our zils during the piece This should be quite interesting for me because I can do any zil rhythm-as long as I don't have to move at the same time

Thanks for your input though. I do think I will skip the hand gestures for now and just stick to the 9/8 steps, and *gulp* "skirt work."

Originally Posted by Bahtya

CRAP! I was sort of hiding behind my skirt in some parts of the song because the 9/8 is sort of challenging and there are some rhythm changes in the piece where I just flat out can't find the "1" !! If I can't use "skirt work" for this I'm sunk. I will heed your words thought Ozma and Corey and take them into consideration when creating this piece.



I am not unfamiliar w/ the 9/8 or Kashlima (Karslima) steps. It's just that sometimes since the 9/8 isn't exacly second nature to me I sometimes get lost in the rhythm (see my above comment). Our teacher has been teaching us the steps and for extra fun, our assignment is to use our zils during the piece This should be quite interesting for me because I can do any zil rhythm-as long as I don't have to move at the same time

Thanks for your input though. I do think I will skip the hand gestures for now and just stick to the 9/8 steps, and *gulp* "skirt work."

i was taught that if the skirt was to be used in AMCAB, it was the last thing before the end.somewhat the same line of thinking as leaving a dabky step till last too. but AMCAB is a silkroad dance of ME imigrants in America..so perhaps that is where that line of thinking came in.
wish i could work with you on zills while moveing !

Originally Posted by zamora

i was taught that if the skirt was to be used in AMCAB, it was the last thing before the end.somewhat the same line of thinking as leaving a dabky step till last too. but AMCAB is a silkroad dance of ME imigrants in America..so perhaps that is where that line of thinking came in.
wish i could work with you on zills while moveing !

so do I . I fell I will NEVER get it. I can do any rhythm but add any movement and It's like I can't walk and chew gum and the same time. Zils are mandatory (says teacher) for this piece. we all need to use them. I am wondering if hand clapping while wearing them counts (not!)

Originally Posted by Bahtya

I am wondering if hand clapping while wearing them counts (not!)

well, it is ok to do the zill hand clap during the rhythm, long as it's not the ENTIRE rhythm and is at an accent point, personally i think it just looks cute from an audience member standpoint...

Kashlima? Dabke? I'm seeing terms I've not heard of. Good stuff!

Originally Posted by Doozer

Kashlima? Dabke? I'm seeing terms I've not heard of. Good stuff!

Answering side questions:
Kashlima/Karsilama is a specific rhythm of Turkish music in a 9/8 time signature (9 beats in 8 counts). Tayyar Akdeniz has an excellent useful CD called " Rhythms of Turkey" which has counting and explanations for something like 20 different Turkish drum rhythms--very educational!

Dabke/Debke/Dabka/Debky is a line dance seen in both Lebanese and Arabic folk dances. There's a video on Karim Nagi's website that includes some dabka--about half way down the page, look at "Arab Dance Seminar" http://www.karimnagi.com/videos/
Dabka means "stomp!"

Originally Posted by zamora

" And I'd advise a newer student who hasn't learned the full range of styles yet to 'just bellydance' and not try to imitate a style she wasn't very familiar with. "
9/8 has it's own set of steps , not used with any other rythem in the dance .

Cory, do you have any YouTube videos of yourself dancing to 9/8? I'd love to see!

Originally Posted by Sabine

Answering side questions:
Kashlima/Karsilama is a specific rhythm of Turkish music in a 9/8 time signature (9 beats in 8 counts). Tayyar Akdeniz has an excellent useful CD called " Rhythms of Turkey" which has counting and explanations for something like 20 different Turkish drum rhythms--very educational!

Dabke/Debke/Dabka/Debky is a line dance seen in both Lebanese and Arabic folk dances. There's a video on Karim Nagi's website that includes some dabka--about half way down the page, look at "Arab Dance Seminar" http://www.karimnagi.com/videos/
Dabka means "stomp!"

where i live and work, you must know both ..it is expected if you are booked by turkish, some hyes with 9/8, dabky is a must at all labanese events.

Originally Posted by dunyah

Cory, do you have any YouTube videos of yourself dancing to 9/8? I'd love to see!

no, i dont. i bought my DVDfrom COS last aug. but never posted it...i had not recovered from a surgery and did not want my doughy body up online. clients watch youtube in this town to book dancers. so, i am not being vain, but at 60 i did not need an untrained eye missing content of a 5 section dance due to my weight.
i would share ..if i knew how safely

And if you haven't seen it being done, here's Dilek to the rescue again. This was her performance at the San Diego Bedouin Bazaar in 2009.

What type of rhythm/dance style is that? Couldn't tell if it was a 9/8 or something else.

What a costume! wow!

Originally Posted by humdinger70

And if you haven't seen it being done, here's Dilek to the rescue again. This was her performance at the San Diego Bedouin Bazaar in 2009.

she "hints" on many of the traditional steps, hand jive..it is a bit modern and fused, perhaps that is her style. but her dance you posted here is very common to us.