Thread: Help me defend bellydance Performance!

Hello!!!!

I need your help. I have been for a while now trying to explain my husband why bellydance is so beautiful and important in my life. The point of discussion really is performance and venues.

I see nothing wrong with doing a wedding or a BD party....but how do I explain it to him?

He feels a lot of bellydance is part of the American Hollywood marketing strategy of selling pretty women with little clothes. He also feels is disgusting than people in the countries with the dance originated would hire dancers while actually disapproving what they do.

Everytime I try to defend this art form I end up in some sort of cycle and not able to reach any conclusion.

So, can anyone more eloquent help me?

In short:

When we perform, what do we give to the audience? How do we change the audience's lives? Why should bellydance be consider higher form of art? Why do we use costumes that do not come from the middle eats but from Hollywood?

Think specially of smaller private venues, although I do need to defend bigger venues. I have given up on defending restaurant and nightclubs because many of them do not treat the dancer the way they should, so they are hard to defend.

Thanks to those who take up the challenge. This is a life changing discussion. It is pretty serious considering Bellydance has been my only job for the last three years.

*driveby*

We help them see the music. We show them the beauty of a dancing body that is not afraid of its own emotion, and moreover that may not even be a "beautiful" dancing body. We show them bodies and music and sexuality and sensuality are not things to fear. Our art is a high one because it is hard. It requires complex and subtle musical understanding (of a musical genre that we don't necessarily get easily) combined with a visceral, earthy populism *and* has as much capacity for personal interpretation as almost anything. It is at once social and personal.

Hollywood has little to do with this dance form, really. The costumes are not from Hollywood. If you don't want to wear costumes made in Hollywood buy them from Egypt or Turkey, simple.

I think the first thing you need to answer, and your husband needs to come to grips with, is why YOU love this dance and find it compelling. I think if you answer that, you will answer a large part of the rest of your question as well.

Second, the bra, belt, skirt set is not a Hollywood invention. It may have been heavily influenced by western colonial expectations/preferences, and Hollywood may have been complicit in perpetuating the look, but it did not originate in Hollywood. & have you SEEN some of the Egyptian costumes? I don't wear a bra & mini skirt! You can wear a whole huge range of costumes & pass it off as some form of authentic or contemporary innovation, depending on your goals ;)

If you (or you plural if he is asking to be involved in your decision to dance) are not comfortable with what he thinks of as a hollywood image, can he pin down exactly what elements he has an issue with? For my hubby, he is okay with costumes that don't look like *just* a bra- so if it is a complete crop top, or has a vest or sleeves, or looks more like an evening gown, he's-well, more okay with it, I won't say he's happy!

It does have a sexy element. It is fun, it helps people escape the day to day mundanity of life. Why do you need more than a reason than that? Sometimes I can push the cultural/educational aspect, but only in certain specific settings. It's entertainment and people like it. I like it. Deal.

This is something you enjoy. It gives you fitness, musical appreciation and expression and an understanding of different cultures. You help people enjoy celebratory events. You share beauty and joy. You bridge different cultures.

You wear a costume developed in the Middle East drawn from a range of influences.

Would he have this problem if you were doing catering from the Middle East? If you did theatre dance or jazz or salsa - which can be far, far more sexually explicit - and in less clothes?

Is the actual problem cultural misinformation and zenophobia or actually jealousy and possessiveness? If the latter you can never explain - and personally I'd suggest you start asking if you want this in your life.

Originally Posted by Dahabiya

Hello!!!!

In short:

When we perform, what do we give to the audience? How do we change the audience's lives? Why should bellydance be consider higher form of art? Why do we use costumes that do not come from the middle eats but from Hollywood?

.

This is just my personal opinion but we give the audience a glimpse of a raw soul that is translating and expressing raw emotion and a deep connection with music. changing lives kinda depends on the perfomance or person so you really cant say. belly dance is art because it involves creativity and hopefully passion. just like fine art when you do a dance you give a part of your self to the world to see. and as for costumes...why not? we dont haveeeeee to wear those if we dont want to but there are all sorts of costumes with all different levels of revealingness so it comes down to personal taste. plus i always feel that am. cab. costumes tend to give us that taste of being that princess or goddess we have always wanted to be since we were little :)...and idk random rant idk if any of that was helpful

We give our audience fun. Beauty. A chance to step out of their regular lives. We also give them a chance to see the music (as mentioned before) and to hear it differently.

As far as the costume goes, as also stated before, the costume we wear evolved over many years from multiple different influences, but really is good at doing its job: helping to emphasis our movements and enhance our dancing.

But I agree with Kashmir. Is this conflict something which you want to deal with in your life. When I was at Raqs B in 2007, I met several women who had been forbidden by their partners to belly dance because of their partners interruption of what belly dance was and wasn't. A few told me that they were taking a serious look at which they were willing to sacrifice - their marriage or belly dance. Belly dance being emblematic of larger problems in the marriage.

{{{{HUGS}}}

You want ammunition when it comes to making an argument about why bellydance is so enriching both for the performer and the audience?

Read more about the history of belly dance and you will find plenty of iron-clad evidence that illustrates why our dance is in fact an ART FORM and how it can be so life-altering and important for you as a woman. (I'd suggest reading Morocco's website. She has so many insightful articles that contain a wealth of great research about belly dance.)

As a teacher and performer, I encounter so many people who have misconceptions about belly dance. So I understand what you're up against when your husband argues with you over belly dance and its supposedly "taboo" nature. But when I meet with people who express distaste for belly dance, here is what I tell them:

This is what I personally get out being a belly dancer:

I get license to get in touch with my feminine side.

Before I was a belly dancer, I worked in corporate America. I worked in a male-dominated field, and I was very aware that if I wanted to get ahead I had to act strong, aggressive, even emotionless. In other words: as women in business, we are so often taught that we have to push away that feminine side of ourselves in order to be taken seriously. But belly dance---a uniquely feminine art form that was created by women, for women to celebrate the power of our bodies and ability to create life---show us that it's OK to own your femininity. With belly dance, we combine feminine grace with power. The more we practice this art, the more we come to own our uniquely feminine qualities and see them as real strengths. The self esteem that I have gained from practicing belly dance and realizing my own uniquely feminine strength has been really transformative.

Every woman deserves to feel both strong, confident, and beautiful. If belly dance is the thing that helps you feel that way, then more power to you.

Originally Posted by Dahabiya

How do we change the audience's lives? Why should bellydance be consider higher form of art?

I thought of one more thing I wanted to add as I looked back at your original post. In answer to the questions about how we change audiences' lives, my response would be that we're kind of like ambassadors for Middle Eastern culture.

Consider who makes up the audience in a typical performance venue. While there may be Arabs in the audience, my audiences are usually primarily Westerners who have very little knowledge of what belly dance is and also very little knowledge of Arab culture.

Just think about how you see Arabs represented on TV and in movies. In the movies, Arabs are terrorists who hate Americans. On the news, Arabs are people who commit human rights violations and kill American soldiers in wars. On the news, Arab women are repressed and wear burkas. There are grains of truth in each of these statements. But these statements are also stereotypes. And unfortunately for belly dancers, these are the stereotypes we're up against when we perform.

The truth is that Middle Eastern culture is wonderfully rich and complex, as is our own. The Middle East is where civilization was born. The Middle East is where all three major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) were created. The Middle East is where so many of the major philosophies we still study today came from. Heck, the Middle East is where algebra is from (Helloooo: Al Jabra)! In other words: Some of the smartest, most interesting, and most enriching stuff has historically come out the Middle East and its wonderful people over the past thousands of years.

Belly dance the art form represents the people who made all of these fabulous contributions to society. Each time we get up and perform belly dance----in a respectful, accurate way---we are essentially being ambassadors for our audiences. And that's how we change lives: we show that there's a really rich culture in the Middle East that's not necessarily represented accurately by what we see in the media.

OK, rant finished. Good luck with your husband. You may never change his mind if he sticks stubbornly to his beliefs, but at least you will be strong in your own mind and heart about why you love this art form so much.

Originally Posted by MoonlightBellydance

Read more about the history of belly dance and you will find plenty of iron-clad evidence that illustrates why our dance is in fact an ART FORM and how it can be so life-altering and important for you as a woman. (I'd suggest reading Morocco's website. She has so many insightful articles that contain a wealth of great research about belly dance.)

Here is the sad thing: I have read, not only Morocco's website but anything that I can find. I am still left trying to explain why what I just explained is important is actually important.

I do think I am fighting a battle that is lost from the beginning and I am starting to consider not talking to him about my bellydance activities. There is no way I could stop dancing. He does not want to forbid me from bellydancing but he has asked me not to do an event I really wanted to do and we ended up in a huge fight. He is perfect in every other sense, but not having his support in my professional life is hard. I also just moved to Thunder Bay, so there is very little here in every sense. I would feel more motivated if I could push my name out there, but I am afraid to because it would bring more fights. sigh....

Thanks all for your comments. I will probably have one las talk with him about it. I think I mentioned everything you guys mentioned, it did not seem to help. And it is true, I love it and that should be enough.

Originally Posted by Dahabiya

Hello!!!!

I need your help. I have been for a while now trying to explain my husband why bellydance is so beautiful and important in my life. The point of discussion really is performance and venues.

I see nothing wrong with doing a wedding or a BD party....but how do I explain it to him?

He feels a lot of bellydance is part of the American Hollywood marketing strategy of selling pretty women with little clothes. He also feels is disgusting than people in the countries with the dance originated would hire dancers while actually disapproving what they do.

Everytime I try to defend this art form I end up in some sort of cycle and not able to reach any conclusion.

So, can anyone more eloquent help me?

In short:

When we perform, what do we give to the audience? How do we change the audience's lives? Why should bellydance be consider higher form of art? Why do we use costumes that do not come from the middle eats but from Hollywood?

Think specially of smaller private venues, although I do need to defend bigger venues. I have given up on defending restaurant and nightclubs because many of them do not treat the dancer the way they should, so they are hard to defend.

Thanks to those who take up the challenge. This is a life changing discussion. It is pretty serious considering Bellydance has been my only job for the last three years.

99% of why i am in my 4th marriage is dance. i have trained since 1953. for some reason, some feel "you will grow up and out of it". or "now that you are my wife you can stop this sillyness ." now that you are one of our family, you can teach a little, but you WILL NO LONGER DANCE" one does not out grow a calling.
i will get slammed for this, but i see this issue as the tip of the iceburg...dont give up who you are! he knew and knows...this art is not about us.we are the vessel .
this dance is my life . my wife is very driven in her calling too. perhaps if he got into a "love" or " calling" he could see where you are coming from....but what he thinks the dance is now...hmmmm good luck! i personally would like to know how this goes for you....your hubbby is slamming another culture.....perhaps some books?

I agree with Kashmir and what Zamora said. I would be so unhappy if I were forced to give up dancing. Circumstances may eventually come to that, but my husband knows better than to even consider something like that. Thing is, he is my best friend as well as my life partner. He wouldn't dream of asking me to quit doing something that makes me so happy. He shakes his head over men who don't support their wives dancing, he really doesn't get it. "Love me, love my dance" is how I feel about it. I can't rationally explain all the reasons why I love to dance so much, I just know that it is an important outlet for me creatively, physically, emotionally, socially...

I suspect the argument is not really about the dance and no logical explanation of it is going to make a difference. I hope it works out for you.

[QUOTE
I suspect the argument is not really about the dance and no logical explanation of it is going to make a difference. I hope it works out for you.[/QUOTE]

BINGO! ( wanted to say "word" )

You don't need to defend what you love... something the truly enriches your life and is also helping put food on the table.

You don't just get paid to dance- you LOVE to dance- for all the aforementioned reasons.

You NEVER BUT NEVER need to defend a passion and a love for something with a logical argument- it isn't logic. Sure there are supporting arguments for it... but the reality is you love what you do and you love sharing it with other people and your husband doesn't.

Its sad- mostly because you at this point 3 years later should have at least agreed to disagree on the subject. But as someone who is supposed to care for you- they should be supportive of what you do even if they aren't not super comfortable with it.

Sure they don't always like it- because they are possessive and don't understand a lot of it because it isn't THERE thing.

I don't get fishing- I never have- I never will- but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop a significant other from fishing. If it makes them happy and they aren't causing harm to themselves or others or wracking up massive debt- whatever. Let it go.

Maybe its time to have a discussion not defending what you do- but more along the lines of- Honey I know you don't understand- I know you have tried to understand(who cares if he did- it will make him feel better) but this is not just a paycheck- its not just a way of life- it is a part of me. And I am going to ask that you respect that... fill in some more..... and we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

tough position to be in- you have my sympathies

*drive-by snarky remark*

Ask him how it's worse than ballet...

Skinny girls in shirt skirts and tights lifting up their leg and showing their crotches while being groped by men in leotards displaying their man bumps.

I would try to figure out *why* he acts this way. It could be that he is insecure, or overly protective, or it could also be that he is a control freak - or more likely, something completely different. Once you understand what makes him behave that way, you can address that, and not the behavior that upsets you. Quite often, when people's behavior upsets us, it is because we do not understand their reasons. (And, of course, they may not be aware that their intentions and motivations are misunderstood, as well.) Good luck!

I am so sad to read your post.
When I saw you dance, I thought your performance was so beautiful that everything inside me was still. For days. If that is not art, then I have no idea at all what art is. You inspired me as a dancer and gave me a more clear picture of where I want to go with my dancing. And for years now, this dance has been a constant and a source of joy for me: It has been something I have held on to in times of fear and in times of loss. As someone who was a member of your audience who is also a dancer, I am grateful that I got to see you dance. But I don't think it's a bad idea to bring anyone a little beauty and fun. Best wishes.

It's about joy and love and being who you are in the moment in the music.

When we share this with other people we give them permission to have the same type of experience. They can experience this feeling with us.

So it's sharing joy.

Honestly, the costume is optional. I've seen dances that touched my soul that were performed in blue jeans and caftans. But when we're being paid to perform, the costume is what audiences expect, so we wear it.

But what we *do* when we dance...that's not optional.

May I suggest that you guys find an open-minded counselor who can help you verbalize what the dance feeds in you, and who can help him verbalize why he's so threatened by your dancing? Because I think that's the root of the problem. And an observant and skillful therapist can help you guys learn to communicate and help him see that you being in the dance doesn't threaten him in any way; it just makes you a more luscious and fulfilled you who is more fun to be with.

Originally Posted by roguepen

*drive-by snarky remark*

Ask him how it's worse than ballet...

Skinny girls in shirt skirts and tights lifting up their leg and showing their crotches while being groped by men in leotards displaying their man bumps.

Hehe...the worst part is...I did try that too!

Originally Posted by Nazarah

I am so sad to read your post.
When I saw you dance, I thought your performance was so beautiful that everything inside me was still. For days. If that is not art, then I have no idea at all what art is. You inspired me as a dancer and gave me a more clear picture of where I want to go with my dancing. And for years now, this dance has been a constant and a source of joy for me: It has been something I have held on to in times of fear and in times of loss. As someone who was a member of your audience who is also a dancer, I am grateful that I got to see you dance. But I don't think it's a bad idea to bring anyone a little beauty and fun. Best wishes.

Awwww!!! I am going to cry now!!!! Thank you so much!!!. This comment alone inspires me not to give up. This is why we do it after all, to connect this way. Thank you!!!! Weather he understands it or not, I think you just gave me the best reason to keep dancing.

I will always remember you too. You have also changed my dance forever. :)

Originally Posted by maiaraqs

May I suggest that you guys find an open-minded counselor who can help you verbalize what the dance feeds in you, and who can help him verbalize why he's so threatened by your dancing? Because I think that's the root of the problem. And an observant and skillful therapist can help you guys learn to communicate and help him see that you being in the dance doesn't threaten him in any way; it just makes you a more luscious and fulfilled you who is more fun to be with.

Therapist has crossed my mind but I have not mentioned it yet. I will....when he gets home. Another day of arguments....sigh....

Hello beautiful! I am so sorry that you need to even have this discussion. If I am correct...your husband knew you and who you are and WHAT you did for a living before you were his wife. I was in the audience with him as I watched such a beautiful and mesmerizing performance of you dancing on stage. I hope he comes around to feeling different...I would hate to see you stop dancing in order to keep your husband happy. I am sure you would never question something that he enjoyed or a job he loved and make him choose or explain.
I love u...please be happy and I cannot wait to see you again...and DANCING! xo

Originally Posted by TanyaLV

If I am correct...your husband knew you and who you are and WHAT you did for a living before you were his wife.

Ditto!

Dancing is good for body and soul. You connect yourself physically and emotionally with music and with space, thus having experiences that inspire and enrichen your life with a whole new range of ideas and sensations. It makes you happy and inspired.

Your dance practice deserves to be respected as soon as you respect it yourself and put energy and effort into it. It's not only physical effort but it widens your horizon in a cultural sense. You learn an awful lot and open your mind to different esthetic concepts, that on the other hand, help you to see better where you yourself come from - culturally, with your idea of what is beautiful and so on.

Bellydance is - for me as a female - especially nice because I come to enjoy parts of my body and also learn more about them. Apart from the health and feelgood factor and the physically empowering training of your inner muscles, it feels nice to sway my hair, to undulate, to make curvy moves that suit the way I am built. I come to enjoy my body in a way that was new to me, despite a lot of afrocaribbean dance experience. This movement language is unique. It's earthy but graceful without end and it teaches you to listen inside of your body for a lot of the muscular action happens in the inside. You connect with yourself in a whole new way - that's priceless!

Unfortunately bellydance is often abused as a vehicle for showing off because it makes women look so glamourous. Sure that's part of the joy but where you feel it's the priority, your husband is right to be critical about it the aspects of vanity and self-promotion, because that makes performers shallow, boring and also often enough an embarrassing sight.

Just be dedicated and learn, occasionally share with him what you learned like talk to him about it sometimes - and don't forget his need of attention over your love for the art form because that makes men all sulk against any hobby!

Last but not least, performing arts need performance. The energy exchange between performer and audience is essential! Both belong to the art form! The dancers creation is something visual (needs to be looked at) - and futile (needs witnesses). It can be recorded, ok...but it's like eating canned fish instead of fresh fish In short, a performer needs people he/she can perform to for. Like when you talk, you need somebody to listen, right?

keep coming back to this thread because this is where we were last summer. I love my husband, and for me, divorce is not an option, period. However, he pretty much stopped pushing because he does not want to loose me. Telling him I will never leave him no matter what actually reduced his anxiety about me dancing, whether he's willing to admit that or not. He still doesn't like it, or understand performing arts in general.

What we have done is identify the things I am willing to compromise on and what I am not. On those compromise issues, I ask him for his preferences, and respect them- this generally comes down to costuming. This has actually worked out well since he has a fantastic fashion sense, and I think he has actually improved my dance wardrobe. I also tell him about all the venues I am NOT doing- most of them I wouldn't do anyway, but letting him in on turning down certain venues & making him feel like part of the process- I think it gives him greater confidence that I am respecting his need for respectability in a small town. Sometimes it makes me angry that he doesn't trust me more, but I know he is just dealing with his own insecurities & I need to protect him as well.

It is really sad to me that thinking I was going to leave him is what it took for him to back off on dance, and it's not a course of action I recommend for any marriage (threat of leaving) but on the other hand I know how much he really values me, to be able to put up with something that is so anathema to him. I wish he could find joy in my joy, but I'll settle for our truce!

Good luck! I hope things work out for you!

I don't think I'd be able to stand being with someone who doesn't support my dancing in the fullest. You shouldn't even have to explain it. He should be able to see for himself how happy this makes you, and he should support you in the things that make you happy.

If something that makes you happy and that is a crucial part of your life (and has been before he even came into the picture) is so anathema to him, then maybe you aren't meant for each other.

This might sound harsh, and obviously I know nothing about you, him, or your relationship, but it's worth considering. It's interesting to see in the responses how some dancers will compromise while others won't put up with even the slightest objections from their significant other.

I am definitely in the latter group and would be out the door the moment my partner even suggested I should give up dancing. Thankfully, I have a husband who supports what I do and is very proud of me. So I am just letting you know the perspective that I am coming from. You might have a completely different personality and maybe some of the other responses are better suited for you.

I wish you the best regardless of how you end up dealing with this issue.

Thanks Lara. Your message gives me some hope :)
I am glad it worked out for you. I am also modifying my costumes to make them more covered. I do not think that will solve it but it will help. It is nice your husband helped you change your wardrobe. Mine asked me to change it so I tried to make him part of the process and asked him to help me choose something but he decided not to be part of it. That was also frustrating. He gets really frustrated with anything related to Bellydance.

And Tanya, thanks for your support. I do not think I will see you this year but there is always a next one :) Take care until then! Good job at project bellydance!

Lara said what I tried to say this morning before I deleted my babbling post.
Compromise.
Hopefully he will see that you are eager to please him by making some changes such as costumes and venues.

Does your husband have a life outside your marriage...guy friends he goes out with, plays cards or basketball with, etc? My husband is very supportive of my dancing just like I support what he does with "the boys". I even join the boys occasionally at basketball and football games. We've been married nearly 26 years and have always had our own times with our friends. Maybe that type of compromise would help you out? Best of luck to you.

SIgh....so we came to an agreement. I will wear more covered costumes. Specially cover the cleavage which seems to be the culprit of the whole discussion. I have to say I never focus so much on someones cleavage, specially not my own. I also agreed not to do private parties other than weddings and bachelorette parties: no BDs, no corporate events. Does this sound like a fair deal to you?

However the discussion last night turned into how I wanted to stay up later than him and how I do not make an effort on waking up at the same time he does (I worked in restaurants and clubs fro the last three years of my life and my schedule is not the same). Is not that a bit too much? I know he is sore about the whole thing, but that seems to me a little exaggerated...

Ok, I am just ranting now...

Originally Posted by Dahabiya

SIgh....so we came to an agreement. I will wear more covered costumes. Specially cover the cleavage which seems to be the culprit of the whole discussion. I have to say I never focus so much on someones cleavage, specially not my own. I also agreed not to do private parties other than weddings and bachelorette parties: no BDs, no corporate events. Does this sound like a fair deal to you?

However the discussion last night turned into how I wanted to stay up later than him and how I do not make an effort on waking up at the same time he does (I worked in restaurants and clubs fro the last three years of my life and my schedule is not the same). Is not that a bit too much? I know he is sore about the whole thing, but that seems to me a little exaggerated...

Ok, I am just ranting now...

This does seem more about his insecurities than anything about bellydance frankly, but that's part of who he is; reasoning doesn't work well with IRrationalities like self-esteem issues (at least, that's been my experience with males).
Could be the part about how Middle Easterners don't respect bellydancers that pushed him over the edge! That hits where it hurts for guys, I believe.

Maybe you can help him feel "special" that you come home ONLY to him, you are ONLY for him, and no other guy will ever have you. This is the kind of talk that men DO seem to understand. Good luck -