Thread: Splits in Belly Dance?

I was watching a Fifi Abdo video and I was wondering why is she doing the splits (at 3:58, 4:36 and 5:01 minutes)... Can someone explain me, please?






Cheers,
Ana

Because she can.

Dancers in Egypt and everywhere are entertainers and they can and do pop in spectacular moves if they want to.

*watches*

Boy, I wonder if Fifi feels those splits today. OW.
I love her wobbly-wobbly shimmy.
Why am I not as sexy and beautiful as Fifi, WHY?

She's doing a baladi wedding dancer tableau in this set.They would traditionally include all sorts of tricks, like acrobatics, or balancing stuff, on their head, or in their teeth!

Nadia Hamdi, who used to be the top shamadan dancer in Egypt, used to do the splits as part of her shamadan act. Building on what Bea said, shamadan was traditionally associated with wedding performances.

Floor work is generally not allowed in Egypt, at least not in public places such as nightclubs. (Private parties have more leeway.) But when dancing with a shamadan, a limited amount of floor work is allowed, and Nadia used to do it. That's because shamadan is considered a "traditional" dance, and the floor work that was traditionally part of it is still allowed.

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

*watches*

Boy, I wonder if Fifi feels those splits today. OW.
I love her wobbly-wobbly shimmy.
Why am I not as sexy and beautiful as Fifi, WHY?

You are very pretty too! Each woman has a different beauty!

Originally Posted by beafarhana

She's doing a baladi wedding dancer tableau in this set.They would traditionally include all sorts of tricks, like acrobatics, or balancing stuff, on their head, or in their teeth!

I'm sure I already saw that somewhere...

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Nadia Hamdi, who used to be the top shamadan dancer in Egypt, used to do the splits as part of her shamadan act. Building on what Bea said, shamadan was traditionally associated with wedding performances.

Floor work is generally not allowed in Egypt, at least not in public places such as nightclubs. (Private parties have more leeway.) But when dancing with a shamadan, a limited amount of floor work is allowed, and Nadia used to do it. That's because shamadan is considered a "traditional" dance, and the floor work that was traditionally part of it is still allowed.

Oh, yes, Nadia Hamdi! Is there a video showing that?

Originally Posted by ANA_bellydancer

Oh, yes, Nadia Hamdi! Is there a video showing that?

Here you go!

Where´s the "like"button?!?The whole video is my Fifi fav,and thanks for posting the Nadia Hamdi clip Bea:)

Aida Nour has done(and still does,I believe?)both low-brow floorwork(her seated shimmy)to more elegant moves like slowly going down to the floor with one leg stretched out to the side,with small precise pelvic locks.
The egyptian style teachers in Sweden who have trained for her and/or Nadia Hamdi(like Zeina)is keeping up the tradition with floorwork to shamedan.

There is not many who do turkish here,so you seldom see taksim floorwork in Scandinavia.But I love to see floorwork nicely done-
can´t do it myself(about as agile as a food fridge myself,heh)

Originally Posted by beafarhana

She's doing a baladi wedding dancer tableau in this set.They would traditionally include all sorts of tricks, like acrobatics, or balancing stuff, on their head, or in their teeth!

Baladi wedding dancer...I'm curious about something. On Morocco's DVD with Nagua Fouad doing a very similar character tableau she described it as a Turkish Coffee House character - a throwback to when the Ottoman's ruled Egypt and they had these kind of bawdy performers in their establishment. I'll have to bust out my video to remember exactly what she said and I had another teacher tell me the same. It was a really popular tableau and it was copied by other dancers like Aza Sherif and I thought this was Fifi's version. So would a Baladi Wedding dancer be the same as a Turkish Coffee House dancer? Are we talking the same kind of dancer?

On the note of the Original question, I agree with all of the above. She does the splits because she can and she's showing off. I've seen another clip of her going into the splits with a cane. I think she gets away with it because of the character of the piece, just like Nadia Hamdi gets away with it during her Shamadan because of the character of the piece. Floor work was made illegal in Egypt, but that doesn't meant it wasn't still done by many behind closed doors and when it could be gotten away with. They still do floor work including splits in Oriental Dance in Turkey and probably Lebanon too, certainly the tradition was carried on in Vintage American Cabaret Oriental style. There is a documented tradition of acrobatics in Egyptian dance going back to the time of the Pharaohs, I think a lot of that survived, which is why you'll see contortionisty things pop up in Oriental dance when you have a performer who can pull it off.

I've got to go, but somebody should post that gorgeous dance with Naima Akef where she does the splits.

And:

This particular tableau has been explained to me as Fifi poking fun at the upper classes, with their reputation earlier in the century for parroting all things foreign and behaving in ways seen as "crazy" or outrageous by baladi standards. Hence the extra-extra-fluffy costume with hat, supposedly inspired by "English-style" party dresses, the hassaballah band with European brass, and La Fifi flinging herself headlong all over the stage. It's romanticized nostalgia blended with a class-based parody of misbehavior -- a pretty strong cocktail, really. I wouldn't get the (subversive?) cultural references without having had them explained to me, but even just as a nutty Fifi tableau, I love it!

Yes, Fifi is coming on stage with some Hassaballah musicians in that clip. She's referencing the Big Band Euro-fusion style orchestras that were popular for a while, but they were British trained, not so much Turkish.

The coffee-house character that Fifi does is usually done in galebeya.

eta was anyone else struck by how much Fifi's face in that clip looks like Leila of Cairo now? wow!

Originally Posted by shems

Baladi wedding dancer...I'm curious about something. On Morocco's DVD with Nagua Fouad doing a very similar character tableau she described it as a Turkish Coffee House character - a throwback to when the Ottoman's ruled Egypt and they had these kind of bawdy performers in their establishment. I'll have to bust out my video to remember exactly what she said and I had another teacher tell me the same. It was a really popular tableau and it was copied by other dancers like Aza Sherif and I thought this was Fifi's version. So would a Baladi Wedding dancer be the same as a Turkish Coffee House dancer? Are we talking the same kind of dancer?

Ooooh!

NOW I´m reminded of an Azza clip I have searched high&low for to find on DVD,so I can upload it to YouTube:she is doing a (Raqia choreographed) tableau in a (what looks like an Abla)dress with matching hat,and with a chair as a prop.

The dance is full of unusual step,funny combinations and is cheeky/charming(probably naughty at that time)-I remember trying to copy steps like her little kicks;asking every bellydance teacher of they could explain the background of the dance to me.(One called it ottoman,one called it awalim etc )

well to add a bit of thrill. It's something not everyone can do. I don't think it's necessary, and that doesn't go for Fifi, but yesterday I watched a bad bellydance performance and the dancer did splits I guess because she ran out of ideas what to do or because she shows a splits in every performance as her highlight.

Here's a clip from the 1967 film Qasr el Shouq based on Naguib Mahfouz's novel. In this scene actresses Nadia Lofti (the blonde) and Mimi Shakeeb (wearing the crown) are portraying awalem who are dancing and singing at a private party. At 3:13 one of the dancers does splits very much like the ones Nadia Hamdi does but without a shamadan. This same dancer appears in another Egyptian movie or two doing these same splits. Her name escapes me right now....

So wait, who explained that? So is Fifis thing here entirely unrelated to the Nagua thing?

Originally Posted by Suzana

And:

This particular tableau has been explained to me as Fifi poking fun at the upper classes, with their reputation earlier in the century for parroting all things foreign and behaving in ways seen as "crazy" or outrageous by baladi standards. Hence the extra-extra-fluffy costume with hat, supposedly inspired by "English-style" party dresses, the hassaballah band with European brass, and La Fifi flinging herself headlong all over the stage. It's romanticized nostalgia blended with a class-based parody of misbehavior -- a pretty strong cocktail, really. I wouldn't get the (subversive?) cultural references without having had them explained to me, but even just as a nutty Fifi tableau, I love it!

Originally Posted by nasila

Yes, Fifi is coming on stage with some Hassaballah musicians in that clip. She's referencing the Big Band Euro-fusion style orchestras that were popular for a while, but they were British trained, not so much Turkish.

The coffee-house character that Fifi does is usually done in galebeya.

eta was anyone else struck by how much Fifi's face in that clip looks like Leila of Cairo now? wow!

The Turkish Coffee house character Nagua does isn't in Galabeya - are you thinking of Fifi's shisha chick? Because I don't think that's referencing the same character as the Nagua piece either...but now I'm a little confused by this. Egypt was under Ottoman rule until the British came, so it stands to reason the British might have been to the Ottoman coffee houses and influenced the entertainment that would have catered to them. I have to go get that clip because I think Nagua might have had special or different music too, I swear these pieces are referencing the same character...

The Aza clip is also on Morocco's DVDs if you are still looking for it. She probably wont want you to post it on youtube though.

Here is that clip of Naima Akef where she does the splits:

Originally Posted by shems

So wait, who explained that? So is Fifis thing here entirely unrelated to the Nagua thing?

I don't think I know about the Nagwa thing other than from your description -- got a clip? I'd love to see!

The more detailed cultural explanation came from someone we both know who spent several years in Egypt. ;) I think Faten has also described it briefly along the lines of "Fifi's making fun of crazy rich people." I can ask again.

Originally Posted by Suzana

I don't think I know about the Nagwa thing other than from your description -- got a clip? I'd love to see!

The more detailed cultural explanation came from that amazing woman I stalk around the country who spent several years in Egypt. ;) (I don't want to quote her by name without verifying with her first, but I did double-check my notes.) I think Faten has also described it briefly along the lines of "Fifi's making fun of crazy rich people." I can ask again.

Well if you are right about your info, you've got a great source. I have the Nagua footage and I just rewatched it, and to me I can totally see the relationship, so now I really want to know.

I don't feel good about posting it though, you can come over to my house to watch it. It's on Morocco's #4 - which is a pretty great DVD to add to one's collection anyway. She titled Nagua's piece as "Parody (Turkish Dance Hall Hooker)" Then said they had these dance halls in Egypt from the 20s until 1952 that were frequented by Turkish Pashas and bureaucrats and the dancers were also prostitutes and that came out in their shows. She then goes on to mention that it was a really popular tableau and that many other dancers copied it.

On the same DVD is Aza Sharif's version (the one with the chair) - labeled and described the same way. Also her costume is even more similar to Fifi's - pink, the same kind of hat, sheer in the middle and, I'll listen again, but I'm pretty sure that's the same theme in the music. Morocco specifically states that this costume was more similar to what these dance hall girls actually wore than what Nagua wore for her parody. It has got to be the same Parody. I'd re-check your source, Morocco is usually pretty good about her research.


Morocco's site for anyone who wants to get their own copy.


http://www.casbahdance.org/

I'm watching Aza's and Fifi's side by side - same musical theme to start it off, same hat same style of outfit, both in pink, similar characters, some of the same style moves, they both toss their shoes off - this is totally the same parody. I'm going to assume Morocco checked her facts before putting it on video and say this is a parody of a Turkish dance hall prostitute from 1920s-1950s.- (not coffee house like I said before, but I knew what character I meant.)

Now I'll leave you with Didem splits floorwork videos:

Originally Posted by shems

I don't feel good about posting it though, you can come over to my house to watch it. It's on Morocco's #4 - which is a pretty great DVD to add to one's collection anyway. She titled Nagua's piece as "Parody (Turkish Dance Hall Hooker)" Then said they had these dance halls in Egypt from the 20s until 1952 that were frequented by Turkish Pashas and bureaucrats and the dancers were also prostitutes and that came out in their shows. She then goes on to mention that it was a really popular tableau and that many other dancers copied it.

On the same DVD is Aza Sharif's version (the one with the chair) - labeled and described the same way. Also her costume is even more similar to Fifi's - pink, the same kind of hat, sheer in the middle and, I'll listen again, but I'm pretty sure that's the same theme in the music. Morocco specifically states that this costume was more similar to what these dance hall girls actually wore than what Nagua wore for her parody. It has got to be the same Parody. I'd re-check your source, Morocco is usually pretty good about her research.


Morocco's site for anyone who wants to get their own copy.


http://www.casbahdance.org/

I was the one talking about posting it if I found it(which I will of course not do),THANK YOU VERY MUCH Shems for the info on where to find it again!

I looked through my notes about about the Azza clip,and yes-Samasem has referred to Moroccos research also,and described it as "dance hall tableau".

Here´s another "dance hall"clip with Hendeya,with leg lifts&chair "sit dance":

i have known several dancers who used a slow split to the floor for floor section

Thanks for clips and info!
That "dance hall tableau" is very interesting.
Off topic: I love that dress Hendeya is wearing! Where can I get one of those?

Wow! You're right Shems, we are not talking about the same character. I've not heard of this one before. Those raunchy turned-out high kicks in that last clip...kinda remind me of Randa!

I think the only dancers that´s now working in Egypt that could pull off "dance hall" is Dandash(she IS still active,right?)or Camelia.

In Journey Through Egypt, when Sahra talked about that Fifi performance, she said that the costume Fifi was wearing was intended to be a theatricalized version of dresses typical of what European women of the era wore. She also said that the part where Fifi does "pushups" while in the splits is typical of something the Sombati Ghawazee used to do.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

In Journey Through Egypt, when Sahra talked about that Fifi performance, she said that the costume Fifi was wearing was intended to be a theatricalized version of dresses typical of what European women of the era wore. She also said that the part where Fifi does "pushups" while in the splits is typical of something the Sombati Ghawazee used to do.

Not that I don't trust Sahra, but I also trust Morocco and I think there is some gap here as far as this character is concerned - it would be nice to get Morocco and Sahra together to hash this out because their two descriptions of this kind of tableau aren't exactly meshing in my mind right now. I'm absolutely convinced this routine of Fifi's is referencing the same tableau as the Nagua & Aza routines Morocco narrates on her video, the similarities are way too numerous and striking - and as I mentioned before Morocco says Aza's costume, which is incredibly similar to Fifi's here (hat style, color, sheer parts, length), was very close to what the dance hall performers wore that they were parodying - so assuming both are right, does that mean the dance hall performers were initially wearing a theatricalized European style outfit for their shows? I'm thinking to email them both together because this is going to bug me...

I'm absolutely convinced this routine of Fifi's is referencing the same tableau as the Nagua & Aza routines Morocco narrates on her video, the similarities are way too numerous and striking - and as I mentioned before Morocco says Aza's costume, which is incredibly similar to Fifi's here (hat style, color, sheer parts, length), was very close to what the dance hall performers wore that they were parodying - so assuming both are right, does that mean the dance hall performers were initially wearing a theatricalized European style outfit for their shows?

See below re your confusion about Aza's dance. She was portraying a seated mualima, a teacher or organizer of shows, NOT a dancehall hooker. THAT was the Negwa number. The costume was a very popular style at that time.

I'm SO tired of all the fantasy (why I'm writing my book), wanting of easy, pat answers or deep, hidden "meaning" for every movement anybody "Over There" does.

Fifi is being her own outrageous self - used to do a flying split at the end of her Oriental dance quite often because she could. PERIOD.

I watched the uTube - her galeyla band is playing along with her orchestra & it's a FUN dance, NOT a "character" portrayal. The split/ floor moves are actually more an imitation of Nazla el Adel's sorta rough/clumsy Shemadan

In one of her films, Naima Akef, from a family of CIRCUS acrobats, did a backwards cartwheel - because she COULD & it was a MOVIE not a documentary or historical reenactment.

Fifi's being an ENTERTAINER.

Randa Kamel uses those outrageous "airplane arms" to be DIFFERENT, to be the "non-Dina".

There is some confusion about the inspiration for the character she is
portraying here. I believed it was the classic dance hall prostitute parody that Morocco has video of Nagua

Negwa, yes. Aza was doing a "seated mualima" tableau. NOT a hooker.

(Sahra have you seen Morocco's footage?) , but some of my friends said
they heard Sahra describe it as a fancy European lady inspired thing, with the splits being a sort of ghawazee thing

I *never* saw the Banat Maazin do splits at all, BUT YES - the Sumbati Ghawazi at the Sahara City tent DID do splits while holding 6-foot table in their teeth *and* playing sagaat! IT'S A SIMPLE SHOW-OFF.

"European lady"? - first time I heard that one. The pillbox hat is Ottoman ...

You're watching Fifi doing a great job of being Fifi (& there goes my dictum of "good girls don't jump"! Which IS true, but Fifi's never claimed to be a "good girl".

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!
Aunt Rocky