Thread: stab yourself-gesture

Do you like it or not?
I can't do it well, but maybe also because I'm not convinced of the gesture when I do it. It makes me feel like a person in a comic strip -"wow the impact!!!! the bullet hit me/ I killed myself very much! " ...I didn't find a video - Randa used to do it often, now she doesn't somehow seem to use it much. I like it when done slightly (but spot-on), not so violently. Like just underlining a lower ab contraction/accent.

What do you think? Do any of you remember video footage?

I can't remember ever having seen it - now I'm intrigued. A video would be great!

Here you see Randa doing it in the first few seconds - only from the back though...



In that choreo which she taught in a workshop it was a real stab-yourself thing, with both hands pulling towards the diaphragm and the correspondant contraction in that area, which seemed very gimmicky to me, sort of like a Hollywood death of someone having been hit by an arrow/bullet in the stomach or else doing harakiri... I've seen milder versions which could also be interpreted otherwise, just one hand pulling towards your belly when you're doing an inward accent there, it can look cool if the abs really snap and the gesture is short and it could read like your harakirying yourself a little...

I haven't watched Randa enough to recall seeing her do it (she's not my favorite dancer), but could it be that she's using it to refer to something in the lyrics? For example, the song Eina el-Layali by Asmahan has a reference to how a look from him was "like a spear to her liver" (the comparable idiom we might use is "like a knife to the heart"). The translation of that particular song is on my web site if you'd like to see more: http://www.shira.net/music/lyrics/eina-el-layali.htm

If that's the case, that she's referring to something in the lyrics, then an Arab could think it looks rather silly if we mimic the move at random points in songs that don't have such lyrics.

Yes I'm sure Shira there was - the song being "El wad kulboh". But impact from love whether in a positive or in a devastating sense- I bet that the lyrics of Arabic songs offer many occasions

It is one of those gestures which should not be included unless the artists understands how and why it is there. Randa of course would know why she wanted it but not many others might.

It is not something you generally see in Egyptian Oriental but it very much present in Persian 'Bobba Karam'.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

It is one of those gestures which should not be included unless the artists understands how and why it is there. Randa of course would know why she wanted it but not many others might.

It is not something you generally see in Egyptian Oriental but it very much present in Persian 'Bobba Karam'.

Randa didn't tell. It felt bizarre because the musical phrase were we were to step back and end with the stabbing ourselves-accent repeated itself over and over, which made this gesture feel more like something you rightfully hint at as something it shouldn't be - an empty formula or just another possibility to do an accent.

But I've seen this in a less obvious way - meaning just drawing one hand towards your belly sharply, wrist turned upwards, to underline a sharp abdominal contraction which often looks a little like daggering yourself. nobody ever saw this? It's not the emotional fist clenching beneath the heart that often accompanies an abdominal contraction. It looks less "story-telling" and yet I keep thinking of the stabbing.

1:42, and also 1:50 and it's more dancers I've seen it - it's not an Argentinian extravaganza

Here is the song she's dancing to. There is a line in it about a guy having a pain in the heart (it's the title and it's repeated a lot throughout the song), but it is immediately followed by the idea that he needs a girl to spoil him and presumably take the pain away--a sentiment I wouldn't think merits such a melodramatic stabbing motion, but it is the part of the song where she's doing the gesture. Full lyrics are here http://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/ar...-beiwgaao.html.



I like sharp pulls and pauses, but this one isn't a gesture I could ever see myself doing comfortably.

Oh you're a real music guru!

Flaming eck.. its all that speed dating she does!!

it creased me when I read that line on the other thread.

Interesting, I've never thought of it as a "stabbing" gesture. For me it has just been a way to emphasise an accent and I've seen a lot of dancers use it. I do too, usually accompanying the movement with the closing of a fist and drawing it close to my body. However when I think of it, I can imagine it symbolising emotional pain.

Did you watch the two moments in the Saida-clip? I know what you mean, Safran, but a gradual pulling towards that region of the body yes seems to mean a feeling in the heart, but not that short energetic gesture.

Also the Randa choreo (I was at a workshop where she taught it) was very much stabbing.

In shaabi workshop I attended with Mohamed Shahin, he taught stabby knife gestures as part of the choreography--real people (men) on the street, he said, would dance with their knives in a general show off kind of way, and the choreographed gestures were a reflection of that. The knives weren't for fighting but were just the practical tools one has lying around, much the same way a Saidi man would dance with his staff. The gestures were tied to words in the music, not necessarily heartbreak stuff but just more yeah, we're shaabi people, we're tough, wink wink.

Mohamed El-Hosseny also taught knife gestures as part of his semsimiyya workshop, again because Port Said sailors would dance with knives. I *think* he had that in his shaabi workshop as well, but I'm not totally certain.

Anyway, seems like the stabbity knife gesture is not an unknown concept in Egypt.

that's interesting. Like "I'm unbreakable, I can stab myself as much as I want - it's even fun for a guy like me!". .big-laugh;,

So it is known. Ok. I guess Saida there used it as a flash-accent which seemed ok to me there. In some raks sharqi I've seen it a little softer, not so "stabby".

Orit does something similar (1:12 and 4:14) that's super cute and matches with Haifa's vocals. Not really stabbing herself, but similar.

Who allowed Haifa to ruin Bitwannes Beek?

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

In shaabi workshop I attended with Mohamed Shahin, he taught stabby knife gestures as part of the choreography--real people (men) on the street, he said, would dance with their knives in a general show off kind of way, and the choreographed gestures were a reflection of that. The knives weren't for fighting but were just the practical tools one has lying around, much the same way a Saidi man would dance with his staff. The gestures were tied to words in the music, not necessarily heartbreak stuff but just more yeah, we're shaabi people, we're tough, wink wink.

Mohamed El-Hosseny also taught knife gestures as part of his semsimiyya workshop, again because Port Said sailors would dance with knives. I *think* he had that in his shaabi workshop as well, but I'm not totally certain.

Anyway, seems like the stabbity knife gesture is not an unknown concept in Egypt.

In Simsimiyya and men's Alexandrian dance "knives" (sometimes in Alexandrian tableaux performed by the folklore troupes actually knives are used, but more often, and always in Simsimiyya, just hands in fist and straight thumb) belong to the style. Otherwise "stabbing oneself" can refer to the lyrics, but can also just emphasize an accent "in", and then it doesn't have to look like stabbing.

Originally Posted by TuijaR

but can also just emphasize an accent "in", and then it doesn't have to look like stabbing.

By coincidence, I was working with a Randa workshop DVD yesterday, and she included that accent kind of stabbing gesture with one of her characteristic traveling steps--absolutely nothing to do with the lyrics, just a way to highlight the action of her body

Growing up, I've seen this done in other dances ("street dances" or "Soul Train") besides bellydance. There was a dance in my mom's younger days that included that gesture. I wish I could explain in words how the dance was executed. It went well with the popular song that was out at that time. So for me, something like that has always been looked at as "accenting the music".

Originally Posted by Nouria

Who allowed Haifa to ruin Bitwannes Beek?

lol...wow is she flat! Haifa is slightly more annoying than when the singers that sounds like the chipmunks sing it.

Originally Posted by Nouria

Who allowed Haifa to ruin Bitwannes Beek?

That is the real issue here