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Thread: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?




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    I could get used to this! jennamitchell's Avatar
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    "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Help! I need some insight on whether or not "Sidi Mansour" would be an okay song to dance Khaleegy to?

    The director of the Arabic Music Ensemble @ the local university wants us to do a dance to the song for the spring concert, but it is not a song that I have done Khaleegy to before and I am having second thought when I listened to it again if it would work.

    Thank you,
    Jenna


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    Ultimate BHUZzer bintbeled's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jennamitchell View Post
    Help! I need some insight on whether or not "Sidi Mansour" would be an okay song to dance Khaleegy to?

    The director of the Arabic Music Ensemble @ the local university wants us to do a dance to the song for the spring concert, but it is not a song that I have done Khaleegy to before and I am having second thought when I listened to it again if it would work.

    Thank you,
    Jenna
    Wrong part of the Middle East for Khaleegy. Sidi Mansour is from North Africa.
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    Master BHUZzer zamora's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by bintbeled View Post
    Wrong part of the Middle East for Khaleegy. Sidi Mansour is from North Africa.
    yep ! i collect versions of this song..Tunisia .


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    I could get used to this! jennamitchell's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Ok, that makes more sense to me. The version the director is working with has a bit of a Gulf sound to it, and in discussion one of the danc ers pointed to a performance of the dance in Khaleegy dress & movement. Definitely caused confusion!
    I had more experience in Moroccan and Tunsian dance (mostly Moroccan from my travels there), but the song wasn't triggering that part of my brain.

    Have either of you dance to it before?


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    Master BHUZzer aziyade's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    I'm told it's played all the time at soccer games in Tunisia, and when I have played it, the guys in audience get up and whoop and make a big deal. I get the impression it's a guys "bar" song -- like "Friends in Low Places" or something.


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    Advanced BHUZzer Elibelinde's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Great stuff, wrong neighborhood:) I do dance often to North African music, this one has many incredible versions from the very traditional to the cutting edge.

    There is a great one in rai style by Cheikha Remitti, the "grandmother of rai," you can get it on Amazon along with many other versions.

    Check out the lyrics:

    allah allah ya baba
    oh god oh god ,my father
    we salam 3alek ya baba
    greetings be upon you
    allah allah ya baba
    oh god oh god ,my father
    we salam 3alek ya baba
    greetings be upon you
    sidi mansour ya baba
    sidi mansour oh father
    wenjek enzour ya baba 2x
    i'll come to visit you my father

    ash-had bellah ya baba
    god be my witness my father
    ma3shegt sewaah ya baba
    i've never loved someone but him
    jar7 el 7abeeb ya baba
    the sorrow caused by my beloved
    3alaj es3eeb ya baba
    its cure is difficult my father
    wesh 7aly feeh ya baba
    what my state is my father
    malhouf 3aleeh ya baba
    i'm exiting for him my father
    wash-had bellah ya baba
    and god be my witness
    ma3shegt sewaah ya baba
    i've never loved someone but him

    wenjeek ya sidi
    i'll come to you my master
    wenjeek ya sidi
    i'll come to you my master
    beshmou3 fi eedy
    with candles in my hands
    beshmou3 fi eedy
    with candles in my hands
    wennar fi galby
    and the fire in my heart
    wennar fi galby
    and the fire in my heart
    ta7reg wareedy
    burns my veins
    ta7reg wareedy
    burns my veins

    allah allah ya baba
    oh god oh god ,my father
    we salam 3alek ya baba
    greetings be upon you
    allah allah ya baba
    oh god oh god ,my father
    we salam 3alek ya baba
    greetings be upon you
    sidi mansour ya baba
    sidi mansour oh father
    wenjek enzour ya baba 2x
    i'll come to visit you my father

    we ka7eel el 3een ya baba
    the one with black eyes my father
    7elw el khadeen ya baba
    with beautiful cheecks
    7elw wi mabghour ya baba
    beautiful and fascinating
    wi 3aiounu b7oor ya baba
    his eyes are like the sea
    wi kharegt ma3aah ya baba
    and drowned with him
    3asebni jfah ya baba
    his absence tortured me
    wi ka7eel el 3ain
    the one with black eyes
    khada galbi le feen
    where did he took my heart

    sidi waseeny
    my master,ease me
    sidi waseeny
    my master ease me
    a7ki wi 7akeeny
    speak and tell me
    sabarli 7aal7
    make me resist
    3alli naseeny
    the one who forgot me
    3alli naseeny
    the one who forgot me


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    Advanced BHUZzer Elibelinde's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Part 2 lyrics:

    allah allah ya baba
    oh god oh god ,my father
    we salam 3alek ya baba
    greetings be upon you
    allah allah ya baba
    oh god oh god ,my father
    we salam 3alek ya baba
    greetings be upon you
    sidi mansour ya baba
    sidi mansour oh father
    wenjek enzour ya baba
    i'll come to visit you my father

    hey hey hey

    ash-had bellah ya baba
    god be my witness my father
    ma3shegt sewaah ya baba
    i've never loved someone but him
    ash-had bellah
    god be my witness
    ma3shegt sewaah ya baba
    i've never loved someone but him
    sidi mansour ya baba
    sidi mansour oh father
    wenjek enzour ya baba
    i'll come to visit you my father

    allah allah ya baba
    oh god oh god ,my father
    we salam 3alek ya baba
    greetings be upon you
    allah allah ya baba
    oh god oh god ,my father
    we salam 3alek ya baba
    greetings be upon you
    sidi mansour ya baba
    sidi mansour oh father
    wenjek enzour ya baba
    i'll come to visit you my father

    hey hey hey

    we ka7eel el 3een ya baba
    the one with black eyes
    7elw el khadeen ya baba.....
    the one with beuatiful cheeks

    jeudi 17 juillet 2008 à 08:35

    Découvrir / Vidéos / Sidi Mansour - Ya Baba/ Click more info for translation sur Netlog


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    Master BHUZzer SamiraShuruk's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    People love this song. I love social dancing to this song.
    But as the lyrics state above- it's about a man who goes to tell his deceased father about the love of his life. Quite a sensitive subject.
    It sounds like a party song, and it is happy (a little tender and bittersweet though)... it's not something I've ever chosen to put in a set (but would happily dance w if a band chose to play it). Definitely not khaliji.
    Last edited by SamiraShuruk; 03-17-2011 at 08:16 AM.


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    Established BHUZzer Serpentine's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    The Arabic of the lyrics is a mixture of Berber. I danced to this song often in France - where there is a large population of North African immigrants - both Moslem and Jewish. It was a favorite at bar mitzfas, believe it or not....


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    Ultimate BHUZzer lizajuk's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jennamitchell View Post
    Ok, that makes more sense to me. The version the director is working with has a bit of a Gulf sound to it, and in discussion one of the danc ers pointed to a performance of the dance in Khaleegy dress & movement. Definitely caused confusion!
    I had more experience in Moroccan and Tunsian dance (mostly Moroccan from my travels there), but the song wasn't triggering that part of my brain.

    Have either of you dance to it before?
    I remember seeing a performance on Youtube of a group dancing Khaleegy to this. Sorry but it just shows ignorance of the music. I have seen dancers performing Khaleegy to Shaabi!!! Sorry folks get it right it doesn't take much effort to find great Gulf music out there and do it properly. As for dancing to RAI (I've also seen the same teacher do Khaleegy to RAI), we really need to check the lyrics as this is often political and it isn't always that hard as it's often in French.
    Yes you'll hear Gulf music in North Africa,RAI in Egypt (bopped to "One Nation" in an Egypt street just a month ago) but performing make sure the costume and music and steps have some connection.
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    Advanced BHUZzer raqFariha's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    what i remember Amel Tafsout telling us at the Arab dance seminar was that this song is linked to a saint's festival and is religious in nature (yes, Tunisian)

    however, it was then found by other artists who did "covers" of it. the signature North African beat wasn't used for most of these remakes since the cover bands' drummers didn't know it. the lyrics were also modified a bit so that it became about a romantic love rather than a love for God.

    another note, she translated it as "uncle" rather than father, i don't remember this in detail, but uncle is used similar to master, referring again to the saint and is a mark of respect for them. I hope i remembered that part right. (ETA: perhaps I'm remember it wrong and uncle was given as another example of using a family title to show deference to a saint)
    Last edited by raqFariha; 03-18-2011 at 12:32 PM.
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    Master BHUZzer zamora's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jennamitchell View Post
    Ok, that makes more sense to me. The version the director is working with has a bit of a Gulf sound to it, and in discussion one of the danc ers pointed to a performance of the dance in Khaleegy dress & movement. Definitely caused confusion!
    I had more experience in Moroccan and Tunsian dance (mostly Moroccan from my travels there), but the song wasn't triggering that part of my brain.

    Have either of you dance to it before?
    i have a cd with 6 versions of it..we use all of them all the time
    ..i collect renditions of song i like and put all on 1 cd..io know , take a pill !


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    I could get used to this! HannahM's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk View Post
    People love this song. I love social dancing to this song.
    But as the lyrics state above- it's about a man who goes to tell his deceased father about the love of his life. Quite a sensitive subject.
    It sounds like a party song, and it is happy (a little tender and bittersweet though)... it's not something I've ever chosen to put in a set (but would happily dance w if a band chose to play it). Definitely not khaliji.
    Really? I've never been taught that the father was deceased, I was always under the impression it was quite a happy song and is simply about a man telling his father (
    not dead) about a girl he's infatuated with O_O


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    Master BHUZzer zamora's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk View Post
    People love this song. I love social dancing to this song.
    But as the lyrics state above- it's about a man who goes to tell his deceased father about the love of his life. Quite a sensitive subject.
    It sounds like a party song, and it is happy (a little tender and bittersweet though)... it's not something I've ever chosen to put in a set (but would happily dance w if a band chose to play it). Definitely not khaliji.
    i sometimes coach a doctor born in saudi..lived in egypt..when useing the DJnader version, she "heard" it as "my magic man has better mojo than yours". but dj nader mixes a modern version.
    baba is "father" as in alot of ethnic circles


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    Master BHUZzer zamora's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by aziyade View Post
    I'm told it's played all the time at soccer games in Tunisia, and when I have played it, the guys in audience get up and whoop and make a big deal. I get the impression it's a guys "bar" song -- like "Friends in Low Places" or something.
    you crack me up!!!


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    Ultimate BHUZzer bintbeled's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    I've heard 2 prominent teachers from North Africa comment on this song. One says that you NEVER dance to it, because it's a song about a saint. The other thinks it's perfectly fine to dance to it, and she sings it in public as well. Welcome to Middle eastern dance, where nothing is black and white -- it's all gray areas!
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    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    From what I have found, the song was originally recorded by Cheikha Rimitti in 1994. I saw somewhere that the song was written for her, but can't verify that, or even that if her version secured the first copyright, it wasn't a reworking of an older folk song. The Tunisian singer Saber al-Roubai put out the most famous version in 2000, and I believe the Algerian singer (Cheb) Khaled also recorded a version of it at some point. As far as I can tell, the only connection this song has to the Gulf is that Saber al-Roubai is now signed to the Rotana label (but he wasn't when this song came out). I think it's a little disturbing that someone who is "the director of the Arabic Music Ensemble @ the local university" would make this sort of mistake, since this is a pretty famous song, and it should be common knowledge to a musician that it's Maghrebi, not Khaleeji. This is the same sort of faux pas as announcing "Al Tanoura" by Fares Karam would be great for a Saidi horse number.

    I can't find any evidence that there is a Khaleeji artist with a song called "Sidi Mansour," but at least one Kuwaiti singer has a record with the title "Mansour," and I can find nine different songs with "Sidi" in the title by various Khaleeji artists. I assume the object is to find a good Khaleeji song, not just a song that might have a similar title, but if you want the other info, I can post it. At any rate, it doesn't appear that there is confusion over a different song with the same name by a Gulf artist.

    As far as the lyrics, I thought I had read that the title translated to "Mister Master," where this sort of deference would be used to address someone from a subservient position (like a slave addressing a master, or a person praying to God). Can't find where I saw that now, but it could explain the song having religious roots.


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    Mega BHUZzer Nazarah's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    I thought the lyrics sounded like the singer was tormented by unrequited love to the point of being suicidal. No?


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    Advanced BHUZzer Elibelinde's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    The Arabic of the lyrics is a mixture of Berber. I danced to this song often in France - where there is a large population of North African immigrants - both Moslem and Jewish. It was a favorite at bar mitzfas, believe it or not....
    Sure, there's a large body of Judeo-Arab-Berber music, this piece I'm familiar with from studying Jewish music.

    Go figure:)
    Last edited by Elibelinde; 03-17-2011 at 03:28 PM.


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    Advanced BHUZzer Elibelinde's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourbeau View Post
    From what I have found, the song was originally recorded by Cheikha Rimitti in 1994. I saw somewhere that the song was written for her, but can't verify that, or even that if her version secured the first copyright, it wasn't a reworking of an older folk song. The Tunisian singer Saber al-Roubai put out the most famous version in 2000, and I believe the Algerian singer (Cheb) Khaled also recorded a version of it at some point. As far as I can tell, the only connection this song has to the Gulf is that Saber al-Roubai is now signed to the Rotana label (but he wasn't when this song came out). I think it's a little disturbing that someone who is "the director of the Arabic Music Ensemble @ the local university" would make this sort of mistake, since this is a pretty famous song, and it should be common knowledge to a musician that it's Maghrebi, not Khaleeji. This is the same sort of faux pas as announcing "Al Tanoura" by Fares Karam would be great for a Saidi horse number.

    I can't find any evidence that there is a Khaleeji artist with a song called "Sidi Mansour," but at least one Kuwaiti singer has a record with the title "Mansour," and I can find nine different songs with "Sidi" in the title by various Khaleeji artists. I assume the object is to find a good Khaleeji song, not just a song that might have a similar title, but if you want the other info, I can post it. At any rate, it doesn't appear that there is confusion over a different song with the same name by a Gulf artist.

    As far as the lyrics, I thought I had read that the title translated to "Mister Master," where this sort of deference would be used to address someone from a subservient position (like a slave addressing a master, or a person praying to God). Can't find where I saw that now, but it could explain the song having religious roots.
    I think that the song is older, I have gotten some some conflicting information about it also though.


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    Advanced BHUZzer Elibelinde's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    As far as the lyrics, from what I gather "Mansour" is a man's proper name that means blessed by or victorious by the blessing of God.

    As to the sacred and the profane - that's a dualism running through much Middle Eastern poetry/music right going back to ancient times and it's very clear in a great deal of Hindu and Buddhist art as well.

    I think we find this surprising because we've been taught that sexuality = bad. So the idea that love and the sacred are intertwined is surprising; yet - to me - that's what oriental dance is about.


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    Advanced BHUZzer Elibelinde's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nazarah View Post
    I thought the lyrics sounded like the singer was tormented by unrequited love to the point of being suicidal. No?
    Boy do I know that feeling.


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    Ultimate BHUZzer lizajuk's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by bintbeled View Post
    I've heard 2 prominent teachers from North Africa comment on this song. One says that you NEVER dance to it, because it's a song about a saint. The other thinks it's perfectly fine to dance to it, and she sings it in public as well. Welcome to Middle eastern dance, where nothing is black and white -- it's all gray areas!
    Every time I have visited Tunisia Sidi Mansour has been played and people have been encouraged to bop to it. So Tunisians don't seem to mind.One thing it never seems to go out of fashion.
    i've got a Turkish version...just shows good music travels..
    But perform it and I reckon you don't mix it up with another regions' dance-steps and costumes.


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    Ultimate BHUZzer lizajuk's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?



    Well you decide.


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    Ultimate BHUZzer bintbeled's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizajuk View Post


    Well you decide.
    brain explodes
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    I could get used to this! dujah's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by bintbeled View Post
    I've heard 2 prominent teachers from North Africa comment on this song. One says that you NEVER dance to it, because it's a song about a saint. The other thinks it's perfectly fine to dance to it, and she sings it in public as well. Welcome to Middle eastern dance, where nothing is black and white -- it's all gray areas!
    My husband, who is Tunisian, does perform to this song but with a folkloric costume and candles. We have many versions of this song and I have one CD where they actually did it as an Oriental piece but I still would not feel comfortable dancing Raks Sharki on it.


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    Official BHUZzer Bellissima's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Shame they did not pick a khaleegy song in the above video, I mean the costumes are nice, the moves arent bad...It could be a very decent performance.


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    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizajuk View Post
    Well you decide.
    What are we supposed to be deciding? "Sidi Mansour" was an international hit. I'm sure when they play it at parties in the Gulf, women probably do apply some of their traditional movement vocabulary to it. Some of those same moves similarly creep in when they're dancing to Rihanna, Lady Gaga, and the Black Eyed Peas, too. And those wouldn't be appropriate examples of Khaleeji folkdancing to present to an audience under normal circumstances, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellissima View Post
    the moves arent bad...It could be a very decent performance.
    I wouldn't go that far. I'd say it looks like what Western students THINK Khaleeji dance is supposed to look like. If "AmCab" is the name some people use for the Westernized, multicultural, fusion style of Raqs Sharqi, then we also need a term "AmKhal" to describe this style of dancing. (Yes, technically not Americans there...) Some of the steps are okay, most are implemented with too much enthusiasm, and a few of the moves are simply not traditional to this style. There's more wrong with this than just the music.
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    I could get used to this! jennamitchell's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Thank you all for your insight on this!
    I would like to defend the Director of the Ensemble because he was given the wrong information about the song before he had started to translate the words and transliterate the piece to music. There was a well-known oriental dancer/director locally who had created a dance to this piece, and it has led to the current confusion about the songs origin and correct context for performing to it, and I set out to try to clear it up. When I share this information with him, I am pretty sure he will opt to have us not choreograph any type of dance to it at all now as he is pretty careful & conservative on what he presents in the concerts (i.e. we can not perform any raqs sharki in the concerts, only folkloric pieces).

    It dawned on me when reading the thread that I now remember Leila Haddad, when I sponsored her at my studio, played the song during her workshop when we were in a circle practicing a lot of the movement she had taught. I am not sure if she has ever performed to it though. Does anyone have examples that they can point me to when a dancer has performed appropriately to it? (appropriate I guess if you are in the arena thinking it is ok to perform to ;-) )


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    Advanced BHUZzer Elibelinde's Avatar
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    Re: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jennamitchell View Post
    Thank you all for your insight on this!
    I would like to defend the Director of the Ensemble because he was given the wrong information about the song before he had started to translate the words and transliterate the piece to music. There was a well-known oriental dancer/director locally who had created a dance to this piece, and it has led to the current confusion about the songs origin and correct context for performing to it, and I set out to try to clear it up. When I share this information with him, I am pretty sure he will opt to have us not choreograph any type of dance to it at all now as he is pretty careful & conservative on what he presents in the concerts (i.e. we can not perform any raqs sharki in the concerts, only folkloric pieces).

    It dawned on me when reading the thread that I now remember Leila Haddad, when I sponsored her at my studio, played the song during her workshop when we were in a circle practicing a lot of the movement she had taught. I am not sure if she has ever performed to it though. Does anyone have examples that they can point me to when a dancer has performed appropriately to it? (appropriate I guess if you are in the arena thinking it is ok to perform to ;-) )
    This is a neat video:



    As far as oriental dance is concerned - I've begun to think of it as a form, like ballet, that can incorporate a large array of dances, including folkloric art.

    Therefore, simply copying other cultures' folk dances may not be the way to go. We are not from that culture - or we may be from one of those cultures but not from the others -

    However - if we think of oriental dance - "belly dance," as a classical form, like ballet, we can respectfully pay homage to those dances with our own dance, and thereby incorporate the music into our own performance art.

    Just thinking out loud here...

    ?

    By the way, googling for videos with Sidi Mansour there are videos of all kinds of dance performed to it - including a group in Lebanon - doing their own thing - there's nothing wrong with this.
    Last edited by Elibelinde; 03-18-2011 at 06:31 PM.


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    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-28-2007, 09:59 PM

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