Thread: "Sidi Mansour" for Khaleegy?

Help! I need some insight on whether or not "Sidi Mansour" would be an okay song to dance Khaleegy to?

The director of the Arabic Music Ensemble @ the local university wants us to do a dance to the song for the spring concert, but it is not a song that I have done Khaleegy to before and I am having second thought when I listened to it again if it would work.

Thank you,
Jenna

Originally Posted by jennamitchell

Help! I need some insight on whether or not "Sidi Mansour" would be an okay song to dance Khaleegy to?

The director of the Arabic Music Ensemble @ the local university wants us to do a dance to the song for the spring concert, but it is not a song that I have done Khaleegy to before and I am having second thought when I listened to it again if it would work.

Thank you,
Jenna

Wrong part of the Middle East for Khaleegy. Sidi Mansour is from North Africa.

Originally Posted by bintbeled

Wrong part of the Middle East for Khaleegy. Sidi Mansour is from North Africa.

yep ! i collect versions of this song..Tunisia .

Ok, that makes more sense to me. The version the director is working with has a bit of a Gulf sound to it, and in discussion one of the danc ers pointed to a performance of the dance in Khaleegy dress & movement. Definitely caused confusion!
I had more experience in Moroccan and Tunsian dance (mostly Moroccan from my travels there), but the song wasn't triggering that part of my brain.

Have either of you dance to it before?

I'm told it's played all the time at soccer games in Tunisia, and when I have played it, the guys in audience get up and whoop and make a big deal. I get the impression it's a guys "bar" song -- like "Friends in Low Places" or something.

Great stuff, wrong neighborhood:) I do dance often to North African music, this one has many incredible versions from the very traditional to the cutting edge.

There is a great one in rai style by Cheikha Remitti, the "grandmother of rai," you can get it on Amazon along with many other versions.

Check out the lyrics:

allah allah ya baba
oh god oh god ,my father
we salam 3alek ya baba
greetings be upon you
allah allah ya baba
oh god oh god ,my father
we salam 3alek ya baba
greetings be upon you
sidi mansour ya baba
sidi mansour oh father
wenjek enzour ya baba 2x
i'll come to visit you my father

ash-had bellah ya baba
god be my witness my father
ma3shegt sewaah ya baba
i've never loved someone but him
jar7 el 7abeeb ya baba
the sorrow caused by my beloved
3alaj es3eeb ya baba
its cure is difficult my father
wesh 7aly feeh ya baba
what my state is my father
malhouf 3aleeh ya baba
i'm exiting for him my father
wash-had bellah ya baba
and god be my witness
ma3shegt sewaah ya baba
i've never loved someone but him

wenjeek ya sidi
i'll come to you my master
wenjeek ya sidi
i'll come to you my master
beshmou3 fi eedy
with candles in my hands
beshmou3 fi eedy
with candles in my hands
wennar fi galby
and the fire in my heart
wennar fi galby
and the fire in my heart
ta7reg wareedy
burns my veins
ta7reg wareedy
burns my veins

allah allah ya baba
oh god oh god ,my father
we salam 3alek ya baba
greetings be upon you
allah allah ya baba
oh god oh god ,my father
we salam 3alek ya baba
greetings be upon you
sidi mansour ya baba
sidi mansour oh father
wenjek enzour ya baba 2x
i'll come to visit you my father

we ka7eel el 3een ya baba
the one with black eyes my father
7elw el khadeen ya baba
with beautiful cheecks
7elw wi mabghour ya baba
beautiful and fascinating
wi 3aiounu b7oor ya baba
his eyes are like the sea
wi kharegt ma3aah ya baba
and drowned with him
3asebni jfah ya baba
his absence tortured me
wi ka7eel el 3ain
the one with black eyes
khada galbi le feen
where did he took my heart

sidi waseeny
my master,ease me
sidi waseeny
my master ease me
a7ki wi 7akeeny
speak and tell me
sabarli 7aal7
make me resist
3alli naseeny
the one who forgot me
3alli naseeny
the one who forgot me

Part 2 lyrics:

allah allah ya baba
oh god oh god ,my father
we salam 3alek ya baba
greetings be upon you
allah allah ya baba
oh god oh god ,my father
we salam 3alek ya baba
greetings be upon you
sidi mansour ya baba
sidi mansour oh father
wenjek enzour ya baba
i'll come to visit you my father

hey hey hey

ash-had bellah ya baba
god be my witness my father
ma3shegt sewaah ya baba
i've never loved someone but him
ash-had bellah
god be my witness
ma3shegt sewaah ya baba
i've never loved someone but him
sidi mansour ya baba
sidi mansour oh father
wenjek enzour ya baba
i'll come to visit you my father

allah allah ya baba
oh god oh god ,my father
we salam 3alek ya baba
greetings be upon you
allah allah ya baba
oh god oh god ,my father
we salam 3alek ya baba
greetings be upon you
sidi mansour ya baba
sidi mansour oh father
wenjek enzour ya baba
i'll come to visit you my father

hey hey hey

we ka7eel el 3een ya baba
the one with black eyes
7elw el khadeen ya baba.....
the one with beuatiful cheeks

jeudi 17 juillet 2008 à 08:35

Découvrir / Vidéos / Sidi Mansour - Ya Baba/ Click more info for translation sur Netlog

People love this song. I love social dancing to this song.
But as the lyrics state above- it's about a man who goes to tell his deceased father about the love of his life. Quite a sensitive subject.
It sounds like a party song, and it is happy (a little tender and bittersweet though)... it's not something I've ever chosen to put in a set (but would happily dance w if a band chose to play it). Definitely not khaliji.

The Arabic of the lyrics is a mixture of Berber. I danced to this song often in France - where there is a large population of North African immigrants - both Moslem and Jewish. It was a favorite at bar mitzfas, believe it or not....

Originally Posted by jennamitchell

Ok, that makes more sense to me. The version the director is working with has a bit of a Gulf sound to it, and in discussion one of the danc ers pointed to a performance of the dance in Khaleegy dress & movement. Definitely caused confusion!
I had more experience in Moroccan and Tunsian dance (mostly Moroccan from my travels there), but the song wasn't triggering that part of my brain.

Have either of you dance to it before?

I remember seeing a performance on Youtube of a group dancing Khaleegy to this. Sorry but it just shows ignorance of the music. I have seen dancers performing Khaleegy to Shaabi!!! Sorry folks get it right it doesn't take much effort to find great Gulf music out there and do it properly. As for dancing to RAI (I've also seen the same teacher do Khaleegy to RAI), we really need to check the lyrics as this is often political and it isn't always that hard as it's often in French.
Yes you'll hear Gulf music in North Africa,RAI in Egypt (bopped to "One Nation" in an Egypt street just a month ago) but performing make sure the costume and music and steps have some connection.

what i remember Amel Tafsout telling us at the Arab dance seminar was that this song is linked to a saint's festival and is religious in nature (yes, Tunisian)

however, it was then found by other artists who did "covers" of it. the signature North African beat wasn't used for most of these remakes since the cover bands' drummers didn't know it. the lyrics were also modified a bit so that it became about a romantic love rather than a love for God.

another note, she translated it as "uncle" rather than father, i don't remember this in detail, but uncle is used similar to master, referring again to the saint and is a mark of respect for them. I hope i remembered that part right. (ETA: perhaps I'm remember it wrong and uncle was given as another example of using a family title to show deference to a saint)

Originally Posted by jennamitchell

Ok, that makes more sense to me. The version the director is working with has a bit of a Gulf sound to it, and in discussion one of the danc ers pointed to a performance of the dance in Khaleegy dress & movement. Definitely caused confusion!
I had more experience in Moroccan and Tunsian dance (mostly Moroccan from my travels there), but the song wasn't triggering that part of my brain.

Have either of you dance to it before?

i have a cd with 6 versions * of it..we use all of them all the time
*..i collect renditions of song i like and put all on 1 cd..io know , take a pill !

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

People love this song. I love social dancing to this song.
But as the lyrics state above- it's about a man who goes to tell his deceased father about the love of his life. Quite a sensitive subject.
It sounds like a party song, and it is happy (a little tender and bittersweet though)... it's not something I've ever chosen to put in a set (but would happily dance w if a band chose to play it). Definitely not khaliji.

Really? I've never been taught that the father was deceased, I was always under the impression it was quite a happy song and is simply about a man telling his father (
not dead) about a girl he's infatuated with O_O

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

People love this song. I love social dancing to this song.
But as the lyrics state above- it's about a man who goes to tell his deceased father about the love of his life. Quite a sensitive subject.
It sounds like a party song, and it is happy (a little tender and bittersweet though)... it's not something I've ever chosen to put in a set (but would happily dance w if a band chose to play it). Definitely not khaliji.

i sometimes coach a doctor born in saudi..lived in egypt..when useing the DJnader version, she "heard" it as "my magic man has better mojo than yours". but dj nader mixes a modern version.
baba is "father" as in alot of ethnic circles

Originally Posted by aziyade

I'm told it's played all the time at soccer games in Tunisia, and when I have played it, the guys in audience get up and whoop and make a big deal. I get the impression it's a guys "bar" song -- like "Friends in Low Places" or something.

you crack me up!!!

I've heard 2 prominent teachers from North Africa comment on this song. One says that you NEVER dance to it, because it's a song about a saint. The other thinks it's perfectly fine to dance to it, and she sings it in public as well. Welcome to Middle eastern dance, where nothing is black and white -- it's all gray areas!

From what I have found, the song was originally recorded by Cheikha Rimitti in 1994. I saw somewhere that the song was written for her, but can't verify that, or even that if her version secured the first copyright, it wasn't a reworking of an older folk song. The Tunisian singer Saber al-Roubai put out the most famous version in 2000, and I believe the Algerian singer (Cheb) Khaled also recorded a version of it at some point. As far as I can tell, the only connection this song has to the Gulf is that Saber al-Roubai is now signed to the Rotana label (but he wasn't when this song came out). I think it's a little disturbing that someone who is "the director of the Arabic Music Ensemble @ the local university" would make this sort of mistake, since this is a pretty famous song, and it should be common knowledge to a musician that it's Maghrebi, not Khaleeji. This is the same sort of faux pas as announcing "Al Tanoura" by Fares Karam would be great for a Saidi horse number.

I can't find any evidence that there is a Khaleeji artist with a song called "Sidi Mansour," but at least one Kuwaiti singer has a record with the title "Mansour," and I can find nine different songs with "Sidi" in the title by various Khaleeji artists. I assume the object is to find a good Khaleeji song, not just a song that might have a similar title, but if you want the other info, I can post it. At any rate, it doesn't appear that there is confusion over a different song with the same name by a Gulf artist.

As far as the lyrics, I thought I had read that the title translated to "Mister Master," where this sort of deference would be used to address someone from a subservient position (like a slave addressing a master, or a person praying to God). Can't find where I saw that now, but it could explain the song having religious roots.

I thought the lyrics sounded like the singer was tormented by unrequited love to the point of being suicidal. No?

Originally Posted by Serpentine

The Arabic of the lyrics is a mixture of Berber. I danced to this song often in France - where there is a large population of North African immigrants - both Moslem and Jewish. It was a favorite at bar mitzfas, believe it or not....

Sure, there's a large body of Judeo-Arab-Berber music, this piece I'm familiar with from studying Jewish music.

Go figure:)

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

From what I have found, the song was originally recorded by Cheikha Rimitti in 1994. I saw somewhere that the song was written for her, but can't verify that, or even that if her version secured the first copyright, it wasn't a reworking of an older folk song. The Tunisian singer Saber al-Roubai put out the most famous version in 2000, and I believe the Algerian singer (Cheb) Khaled also recorded a version of it at some point. As far as I can tell, the only connection this song has to the Gulf is that Saber al-Roubai is now signed to the Rotana label (but he wasn't when this song came out). I think it's a little disturbing that someone who is "the director of the Arabic Music Ensemble @ the local university" would make this sort of mistake, since this is a pretty famous song, and it should be common knowledge to a musician that it's Maghrebi, not Khaleeji. This is the same sort of faux pas as announcing "Al Tanoura" by Fares Karam would be great for a Saidi horse number.

I can't find any evidence that there is a Khaleeji artist with a song called "Sidi Mansour," but at least one Kuwaiti singer has a record with the title "Mansour," and I can find nine different songs with "Sidi" in the title by various Khaleeji artists. I assume the object is to find a good Khaleeji song, not just a song that might have a similar title, but if you want the other info, I can post it. At any rate, it doesn't appear that there is confusion over a different song with the same name by a Gulf artist.

As far as the lyrics, I thought I had read that the title translated to "Mister Master," where this sort of deference would be used to address someone from a subservient position (like a slave addressing a master, or a person praying to God). Can't find where I saw that now, but it could explain the song having religious roots.

I think that the song is older, I have gotten some some conflicting information about it also though.

As far as the lyrics, from what I gather "Mansour" is a man's proper name that means blessed by or victorious by the blessing of God.

As to the sacred and the profane - that's a dualism running through much Middle Eastern poetry/music right going back to ancient times and it's very clear in a great deal of Hindu and Buddhist art as well.

I think we find this surprising because we've been taught that sexuality = bad. So the idea that love and the sacred are intertwined is surprising; yet - to me - that's what oriental dance is about.

Originally Posted by Nazarah

I thought the lyrics sounded like the singer was tormented by unrequited love to the point of being suicidal. No?

Boy do I know that feeling.

Originally Posted by bintbeled

I've heard 2 prominent teachers from North Africa comment on this song. One says that you NEVER dance to it, because it's a song about a saint. The other thinks it's perfectly fine to dance to it, and she sings it in public as well. Welcome to Middle eastern dance, where nothing is black and white -- it's all gray areas!

Every time I have visited Tunisia Sidi Mansour has been played and people have been encouraged to bop to it. So Tunisians don't seem to mind.One thing it never seems to go out of fashion.
i've got a Turkish version...just shows good music travels..
But perform it and I reckon you don't mix it up with another regions' dance-steps and costumes.

Well you decide.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Well you decide.

*brain explodes*

Originally Posted by bintbeled

I've heard 2 prominent teachers from North Africa comment on this song. One says that you NEVER dance to it, because it's a song about a saint. The other thinks it's perfectly fine to dance to it, and she sings it in public as well. Welcome to Middle eastern dance, where nothing is black and white -- it's all gray areas!

My husband, who is Tunisian, does perform to this song but with a folkloric costume and candles. We have many versions of this song and I have one CD where they actually did it as an Oriental piece but I still would not feel comfortable dancing Raks Sharki on it.

Shame they did not pick a khaleegy song in the above video, I mean the costumes are nice, the moves arent bad...It could be a very decent performance.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Well you decide.

What are we supposed to be deciding? "Sidi Mansour" was an international hit. I'm sure when they play it at parties in the Gulf, women probably do apply some of their traditional movement vocabulary to it. Some of those same moves similarly creep in when they're dancing to Rihanna, Lady Gaga, and the Black Eyed Peas, too. And those wouldn't be appropriate examples of Khaleeji folkdancing to present to an audience under normal circumstances, either.

Originally Posted by Bellissima

the moves arent bad...It could be a very decent performance.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say it looks like what Western students THINK Khaleeji dance is supposed to look like. If "AmCab" is the name some people use for the Westernized, multicultural, fusion style of Raqs Sharqi, then we also need a term "AmKhal" to describe this style of dancing. (Yes, technically not Americans there...) Some of the steps are okay, most are implemented with too much enthusiasm, and a few of the moves are simply not traditional to this style. There's more wrong with this than just the music.

Thank you all for your insight on this!
I would like to defend the Director of the Ensemble because he was given the wrong information about the song before he had started to translate the words and transliterate the piece to music. There was a well-known oriental dancer/director locally who had created a dance to this piece, and it has led to the current confusion about the songs origin and correct context for performing to it, and I set out to try to clear it up. When I share this information with him, I am pretty sure he will opt to have us not choreograph any type of dance to it at all now as he is pretty careful & conservative on what he presents in the concerts (i.e. we can not perform any raqs sharki in the concerts, only folkloric pieces).

It dawned on me when reading the thread that I now remember Leila Haddad, when I sponsored her at my studio, played the song during her workshop when we were in a circle practicing a lot of the movement she had taught. I am not sure if she has ever performed to it though. Does anyone have examples that they can point me to when a dancer has performed appropriately to it? (appropriate I guess if you are in the arena thinking it is ok to perform to ;-) )

Originally Posted by jennamitchell

Thank you all for your insight on this!
I would like to defend the Director of the Ensemble because he was given the wrong information about the song before he had started to translate the words and transliterate the piece to music. There was a well-known oriental dancer/director locally who had created a dance to this piece, and it has led to the current confusion about the songs origin and correct context for performing to it, and I set out to try to clear it up. When I share this information with him, I am pretty sure he will opt to have us not choreograph any type of dance to it at all now as he is pretty careful & conservative on what he presents in the concerts (i.e. we can not perform any raqs sharki in the concerts, only folkloric pieces).

It dawned on me when reading the thread that I now remember Leila Haddad, when I sponsored her at my studio, played the song during her workshop when we were in a circle practicing a lot of the movement she had taught. I am not sure if she has ever performed to it though. Does anyone have examples that they can point me to when a dancer has performed appropriately to it? (appropriate I guess if you are in the arena thinking it is ok to perform to ;-) )

This is a neat video:



As far as oriental dance is concerned - I've begun to think of it as a form, like ballet, that can incorporate a large array of dances, including folkloric art.

Therefore, simply copying other cultures' folk dances may not be the way to go. We are not from that culture - or we may be from one of those cultures but not from the others -

However - if we think of oriental dance - "belly dance," as a classical form, like ballet, we can respectfully pay homage to those dances with our own dance, and thereby incorporate the music into our own performance art.

Just thinking out loud here...

?

By the way, googling for videos with Sidi Mansour there are videos of all kinds of dance performed to it - including a group in Lebanon - doing their own thing - there's nothing wrong with this.