Thread: Who says belly dance doesn't come from India??

This made me a believer:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIc5ALdd4NY]YouTube - Mehbooba Mehbooba (Sholay)[/ame]

...hehe.

Can you explain why you think this is "proof" of anything?

There is a 1926 Mutt & Jeff cartoon that shows a dancer shimmying her butt. Doesn't that prove that belly dancing was created by animators in the U.S.?

There is a 1928 Felix the Cat cartoon that shows a group of women in harem pants and face veils doing hip work. Does that support my above suggestion that belly dancing was created by animators in the U.S.?

And then there's Bugs Bunny doing head slides and hip slides in a 1957 cartoon, and so on....

You're right. Those cartoons go way farther back.

Shira's right, I think the East Indians learned belly dance from American cartoons! jajajaja!

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Can you explain why you think this is "proof" of anything?

There is a 1926 Mutt & Jeff cartoon that shows a dancer shimmying her butt. Doesn't that prove that belly dancing was created by animators in the U.S.?

There is a 1928 Felix the Cat cartoon that shows a group of women in harem pants and face veils doing hip work. Does that support my above suggestion that belly dancing was created by animators in the U.S.?

And then there's Bugs Bunny doing head slides and hip slides in a 1957 cartoon, and so on....

I think Tabitha was just joking hence "hehe"

This is just gorgeous -- thanks, Tabitha! I especially like the clouds of dust she kicked up during her dramatic entrance.

I loved this! How gloriously kitschy. Thanks for the smiles this brought.

And, on a more serious note, despite the kitsch, stereotypes, and whatever else one can list, to me this was more "bellydance" in its feel than a lot of the more contemporary fusion developments.

I thought she was a fabulous performer.

And yes, I am kidding...don't you think I KNOW that BD was invented by a goddess, and NOT in India??

MEHBOOBA!
Wild!

Originally Posted by leenanyc

I think Tabitha was just joking hence "hehe"

Leena, but of course! Why do you think I responded with cartoons rather than a historical diatribe? ..l;,

Oh I love Helen, the H-Bomb! This is such a classic dance number. I think there was another thread from way back where Meissoun posted a funny bad-girl/good-girl dance-off that Helen both "bellydanced" and "flamenco"ed in.

Bollywood dance is such a fun hodge-podge of different styles. More hip-hop and jazz today than folk, but still hella fun. The new version of Sholay has a hideous version of Mehbooba. African dance teachers should sue.

Originally Posted by tabitha

And yes, I am kidding...don't you think I KNOW that bellydance was invented by a goddess, and NOT in India??

yes so lets all go squat over mirrors. hehe

Can someone please explain this movie to me? I've never seen the actual film, only this dance clip from one of the Eros dance compilations, but there's an Indian guy who always sings this at our international festivals, and he seems to take it very seriously.

Can someone who has seen this flick help put the clip into context? This has been bugging me. Ever so grateful :)

Originally Posted by aziyade

Can someone please explain this movie to me? I've never seen the actual film, only this dance clip from one of the Eros dance compilations, but there's an Indian guy who always sings this at our international festivals, and he seems to take it very seriously.

Can someone who has seen this flick help put the clip into context? This has been bugging me. Ever so grateful :)

I've never seen this movie and don't know the plot line but I can tell you a little cultural context.
"mehbooba" means "lover". This song was considered very scandalous in its time, although it is also very well loved. I know a lot of Indians who love it and want it played/danced to at parties and some who feel it might be inappropriate at a wedding because of it's scandalous past.
The dancer is a classic Bollywood stereotype of what they would call a "gypsy". Her dancing is what they stereotype as "gypsy"... sometimes these characters are portrayed as cheesy, sometimes as more Rajasthani influenced.
It was also obviously a byproduct of it's era. Take a look at our movies and Egyptian movies of the same era. .w.:

Thanks Samira!

I'm sure I don't know what you all mean!!!!! She just covered my entire repertoire....floorwork and all!.w.: ..l;,

..l;, I love Mehbooba. It's one of those songs that gets stuck in my head forever. ..g.:

Food for thought (I'm posting these little things all over Bhuz, sorry for the rampant force-feeding): there was a Portuguese woman who was described as "belly dancing" in India during the Mogul period.

I'm aware of the humor in this thread (hehe), but there are numerous connections between belly dance and India that are always worth keeping in mind. I still tell people there is no such thing as Indian belly dance, but I won't deny that some parts of belly dance were influenced by Indian culture. It's complicated, yar.

Nonetheless, this clip IS priceless.

Hmm...I'd like to know what influences are from India. (Not being sarcastic)

Originally Posted by tabitha

Hmm...I'd like to know what influences are from India. (Not being sarcastic)

Head slides, for one.

There's a Ghawazee stamping motion, though admittedly you rarely see it in Oriental, that strongly resembles the stamping of Kathak dance. Only the Ghawazee don't have bells on their ankles the way Kathak dancers do. But even though the stamping isn't done much in Oriental, it still shows an Egyptian connection.


By the way, I don't believe that belly dancing as a whole comes from India, but I do believe that certain specific moves (such as the ones I mentioned above) were introduced into the Middle East from the Nawari/Ghawazee migration.

Originally Posted by tabitha

Hmm...I'd like to know what influences are from India. (Not being sarcastic)

Many of the Romani people had ancestry in the Rajasthani families of entertainers.
I've actually been amazed at some of the very same gestures that we associate with Turkish Romani dance (and those are some very specific gestures) that are also done in Rajasthani dances.

The Other Languages of Europe ... - Google Book Search
Balkan, Indian rhythms collide at Khamoro World Roma Festival

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Leena, but of course! Why do you think I responded with cartoons rather than a historical diatribe? ..l;,

Hey, it was a lot of fun though wasn't it. I enjoyed it.

Well, if this is proof that bellydance came from India, THIS is the proof that the Indians invented the twist!!!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoqWOOtlIbM"]YouTube - Jan Pehechaan Ho - Gumnaam (1965)[/ame]

Actually, it's the other way round.

Bollywood dance scenes (also called items) have for a long time taken influences and ideas from all over the world.

Most Indians live in rural areas and never get out to see the rest of the world. The cinema is where they go to see new and exciting things. That's one of the reasons that for the last 50 years at least most items numbers were the ideal way to show them "exotic" foreign cultures.

Helen was a specialist for these numbers and the incarnation of glamour. She was born in Burma (with a French father) and certainly did not have "bellydance in her blood"
Actually, some kind of flamenco-style costume would be what most people remember her for. And that is NOT because flamenco came from India! But because it looks good.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nmaEc30xaw"]YouTube - O Hasina Zulfowali[/ame]

For an "Indian bellydancer" I give you Zeenat Aman
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiMkyJuOZXs"]YouTube - Raqaasa Mera Naam - The Great Gambler[/ame]
That scene was filmed in the actual Sahara City thent in Cairo (and right before this they show a scene of Lucy dancing!)

MEISSOUN

Someone asked about the movie that Mehbooba came from. It's called "Sholay" and it is THE classic Bollywood take on spaghetti westerns. A lot of people grew up mouthing the classic lines from the movie. It's kind of cheesy but a lot of it still holds up well. There's been a recent remake which apparently was pretty bad and was a box office failure.

Mehbooba is basically what you might call an "item number"... not really essential to the plot but pure entertainment regardless.

Originally Posted by tabitha

Hmm...I'd like to know what influences are from India. (Not being sarcastic)

I was always skeptic I've learned more about the modern influences (though the Portuguese dancer story is fascinating to me, too). A professional kathak dancer, trained in India, who is also a professional belly dancer, cited similarities between Indian temple carvings and the modern belly dance costume; as well as hints of Indian dance movements that only crept into belly dance once it became a show for stage.

How exactly this influence came to Egypt, I don't know. I don't know if Bollywood was popular in Egypt when Badia Masabny changed the face of traditional Egyptian dance, but maybe there are other possibilities like traffic through the Suez Canal...you name it! After that period of time, I blame God's/Amitabh Bachchan's popularity in Egypt (and the rest of the world, for that matter).

Nonetheless, no matter what influences crept into the dance as we know it today, the heart of the dance is still in the Middle East.

Whoah, if she did that intro and headed toward me like that, I think Id run away scared! Yet, at the end, I kinda liked it!

Originally Posted by *Shira*

There's a Ghawazee stamping motion, though admittedly you rarely see it in Oriental, that strongly resembles the stamping of Kathak dance. Only the Ghawazee don't have bells on their ankles the way Kathak dancers do. But even though the stamping isn't done much in Oriental, it still shows an Egyptian connection.

I'd say this was evidence that Kathak evolved from Morris Dancing ,r:;

Originally Posted by kamilia

I was always skeptic I've learned more about the modern influences (though the Portuguese dancer story is fascinating to me, too). A professional kathak dancer, trained in India, who is also a professional belly dancer, cited similarities between Indian temple carvings and the modern belly dance costume; as well as hints of Indian dance movements that only crept into belly dance once it became a show for stage.

How exactly this influence came to Egypt, I don't know. I don't know if Bollywood was popular in Egypt when Badia Masabny changed the face of traditional Egyptian dance, but maybe there are other possibilities like traffic through the Suez Canal...you name it! After that period of time, I blame God's/Amitabh Bachchan's popularity in Egypt (and the rest of the world, for that matter).

Nonetheless, no matter what influences crept into the dance as we know it today, the heart of the dance is still in the Middle East.

The costume was taken from India I believe - via the British who had a strong presence in India (and later Egypt) for many years (and who admired the Indian dancers). The whole value of Egypt was the Suez Canal to access India.

Also, keep in mind Western India (to just past the Indus) was conquered by the Arabs. No doubt, they also influenced the Indian culture. The "Moghuls" had their roots in the Arabs.

Originally Posted by kashmir

The costume was taken from India I believe - via the British who had a strong presence in India (and later Egypt) for many years (and who admired the Indian dancers).

I've heard this theory before, but I have to admit I'm skeptical of it.

This video has really illustrated to me why it would be a good idea not to drink and dance...

~*Gen*~