Thread: Help me with some authentic Shaabi / Sha'abi clips & tips

I'm interested in choreographing a Shaabi song, and I'd like to dig into some videos of Shaabi dancing. I'm not looking to copy, but just to get a feel for the style.

Please post some YouTube videos of what you would consider to be a good example of Shaabi dancing.

Also, if you have any tips on dancing to this style of music, I'd love to hear them. :)

My inspiration for shaabi moves is to watch Tito -- any of his dances without a stick.

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'authentic'..

here is a good clip of stylised 'Oriental' Sha'abi for the stage..it has a combined flavour of 'oriental dance' whilst retaining the essence of sha'abi. Sha'abi of the nightclubs in Cairo has a different approach to movement that 'Oriental' trained dancers.

YouTube - Aida Hassan 10.10.10.mp4

Men dancing with a singer at a wedding..this is a 'authentic' as you can get and is very much the usual practice.

YouTube - ‫

Here is a clip of an Egyptian club dancer, it is very short but watch how she moves, her expression and delivery etc.

YouTube - Belly Dance in Cairo

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'authentic'..

Basically, something that would be recognizable as Shaabi style to someone who was familiar with the style, and/or wouldn't be considered unintentionally hilarious because it was so inaccurately presented.

In terms of style, sha'abi is generally a style which is free from ballet influence.

It can have a tongue in cheek expression about it, but it does not have to be overworked.

There are many interpretations of Sha'abi, it is quite a free style and not narrowly defined. Oriental/Raqs Sharqi styling can appear too elegant and could look slightly out of place, but it need not veer towards the opposite extreme either. It does take many shapes and forms which can lead to some confusion.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

here is a good clip of stylised 'Oriental' Sha'abi for the stage..it has a combined flavour of 'oriental dance' whilst retaining the essence of sha'abi. Sha'abi of the nightclubs in Cairo has a different approach to movement that 'Oriental' trained dancers.

YouTube - Aida Hassan 10.10.10.mp4

Okay, I'm probably going to pull the wrath of the sisterhood down on my head for asking this, but I'm curious why you picked that particular Aida Hassan clip. I've seen her dancing before and always have been very fond of her style (I think she is less stereotypically "Russian" than some of her contemporaries), but all I could think of is that clip reminds me of what I imagine Bassem Feghali imitating Dina in a fit of drunken spite would look like. (I'm sorry, I wish it didn't, but it did.) There is something about her dancing in that clip that I hadn't noticed in her prior sha'abi or baladi clips that feels "off" to me in a very aggressive, masculine way that I don't normally associate with Egyptian women. Is it me? Is it her? I don't get that impression from this clip.

Jungleflower: I would argue that Shaabi is a feel that is very different than Egyptian Oriental style... it's difficult to find and connect with and also difficult to represent if you don't work on it over time. I would recommend seeing if you can get some classes in with a qualified teacher to at least have a starting point on how to "adjust" your dancing to reach the Shaabi feel and styling. As Caroline says, it is very free - which makes it easy to include movements you may be comfortable with in your dancing otherwise...which may not come across as Shaabi.

Another thing I want to point out is that Shaabi manifests itself in so many ways. Some dancers dance exactly the same way to Oriental as they do a Shaabi song, some completely change characters - I think it also is relative to the dancer's identity and comfort zone.

Another another thing is that some dancers gesture along with the lyrics ALOT and others almost dont at all. Keep that in mind too, when on the subject of "accuracy".

From my own experience: My Shaabi has been brought up as an example of mixing Shaabi feel and Oriental styling in the past. I tend to agree. It takes a lot to stop the body from automatically responding with oriental styling, believe me :) Shaabi also tends to have a wider range of movement from center - which requires additional/different flexibility and speedy footwork from Oriental.

Hope that helps in your quest.

Tourbeau: maybe she's just trying out different feels and presentations? :D Aida Hassan typically is a very buttery dancer (smooth), as you say.

On that note, WHERE can I get hold of more of Amro Saeed's music?? He's hot!!

I agree with Caroline about losing balletic influences,it makes a dance presented as shaabi not feel right to me if there´s a a light,airy feeling,arabesques and snake arms etc

Also many choreographed shaabi numbers feels "wrong"(IMHO)when they cover a large stage space in patterns,have a constant,very fast frenetic tempo,and choreographed gestures coming back again&again.

I do not like it at all when shaabi numbers are a kind of parody of "trashy women from Cairo","bad girls with vulgar gestures","low level seedy nightclub dancer" etc.

I really enjoy watching someone dance relaxed with a sense of her/himself being "dabomb",sense of timing,"groundedness"+audience contact and making audience feel that they really like this song and can´t help dancing along with playfulness.

Here´s some different clips that might be of help:



I know these are annoyingly filmed and with bad sound quality,but I love the music&dance,they have that "it":

Professional dancers:

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Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Okay, I'm probably going to pull the wrath of the sisterhood down on my head for asking this, but I'm curious why you picked that particular Aida Hassan clip. I've seen her dancing before and always have been very fond of her style (I think she is less stereotypically "Russian" than some of her contemporaries), but all I could think of is that clip reminds me of what I imagine Bassem Feghali imitating Dina in a fit of drunken spite would look like. (I'm sorry, I wish it didn't, but it did.) There is something about her dancing in that clip that I hadn't noticed in her prior sha'abi or baladi clips that feels "off" to me in a very aggressive, masculine way that I don't normally associate with Egyptian women. Is it me? Is it her? I don't get that impression from this clip.

I would offer another perspective, The clip ypou show is two years older than the one I presented...
The older clip looks like it is trying to be Sha'abi to me but has too much Oriental/folkloric lines about it.

The newer clip appears to me to be a matured version. I teach Sha'abi alot (because I am asked for this more than anything else), it is very difficult if you are not used to moving that way. Similarly, I dont like dancing in ballet style, I have no training and I am not good at it.

Sha'abi is the less outwardly appearing sophisticated form of the dance (physically I would argue the opposite, like David described it uses the centre far more and everything is inside out).. I am thinking the perceived masculinity maybe a class thing?

There is a strong class element in this dance and it gets caught up with the 'elegant lady' thing.. think about Fifi and Camelia, they retained those background elements where others appeared to go through a 'my fair lady' thing.

What do you think? is it gender or is it class.. both or niether?

I understand that her style may have evolved, and I was curious if you had picked that clip because there was a reason you were thinking, "Now, she's finally got it," when the clip I posted was more in line with what I expect the theatricized version to look like. I thought the clip you posted was tending toward her going too far in a conscious effort toward unrefinement. Of all of the clips I've seen of low-rent, street-party Egyptian dancers, they have a particular quality to their dancing that, no matter how vulgar it gets, still maintains a sense that they're not putting a lot of effort into hitting their movements. It's very distinctive, but intangible--their dance is both intentional and lazy. The Aida clip in question, at least for me, felt like it was veering into that stereotypical Russian style of really landing into the movements. There are a lot of Russian dancers who are technically very skilled, but I find it difficult to watch them without wanting to caption their performances with Batman-style interjections..."Bam!" POW!" Ka-Boom!" There's a peculiar hostility to the energy of their performances.

I'm sure there is an aspect to this mythical sha'abi quality that reflects a gender dynamic. I want to say that femininity in those cultures demands that females don't look like they're trying too hard, but perhaps I am seeing something that isn't really there, or isn't there in the way I'm attributing to it. Then again, I feel, as outsiders trying to learn the body language of a culture we don't live in, we're often struggling to find the point where our dance stops looking like we're trying too hard to look like we're not trying too hard. I agree that there's probably a class element to this, too, but that's a sociology dissertation I'm not prepared to write.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I understand that her style may have evolved, and I was curious if you had picked that clip because there was a reason you were thinking, "Now, she's finally got it," when the clip I posted was more in line with what I expect the theatricized version to look like.

Yes, but the 'got it' bit for me was the 'less oriental', her weight and shifting of energy was definately more sha'abi in the second one and too styled in the first. I watched her feet alot and they are very different in the clips.

I thought the clip you posted was tending toward her going too far in a conscious effort toward unrefinement. Of all of the clips I've seen of low-rent, street-party Egyptian dancers, they have a particular quality to their dancing that, no matter how vulgar it gets, still maintains a sense that they're not putting a lot of effort into hitting their movements.

But what Aida is doing is typical of Aida Nour in many ways. Also the club dancers know when to give it a bit of Umph.

It's very distinctive, but intangible--their dance is both intentional and lazy. The Aida clip in question, at least for me, felt like it was veering into that stereotypical Russian style of really landing into the movements.

I guess I am approaching it from a different way.

There are a lot of Russian dancers who are technically very skilled, but I find it difficult to watch them without wanting to caption their performances with Batman-style interjections..."Bam!" POW!" Ka-Boom!" There's a peculiar hostility to the energy of their performances.

This is also very present in some of the Oriental dancers on the Cairo circuit.

I'm sure there is an aspect to this mythical sha'abi quality that reflects a gender dynamic.

It is not a myth, it is what seperates people.. baladi and sha'abi and the new rich.

I want to say that femininity in those cultures demands that females don't look like they're trying too hard, but perhaps I am seeing something that isn't really there, or isn't there in the way I'm attributing to it.

How hard they try depends on how much they are getting paid and who they are aiming to please.

Then again, I feel, as outsiders trying to learn the body language of a culture we don't live in, we're often struggling to find the point where our dance stops looking like we're trying too hard to look like we're not trying too hard. I agree that there's probably a class element to this, too, but that's a sociology dissertation I'm not prepared to write.

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The trouble with sha'abi is it is rooted in an aspect of Egyptian culture as opposed to a nightclub creation. All dancers come from these backgrounds but the folkloric training changes how they dance and present.
The 'sha'abi expression' is at the forfront of oriental these days, look at Dina and the costumes etc. look at the way dancers express the songs in ways you never saw the classic and vinatge dancers do. The 'bottom' is pushing upwards right now.

Body langauge is part of it, is it not the same in other dance forms?

Ballet dancers pull alot of the same faces.. there is a culture of learned expression which appears top run right through the body and brain.

Originally Posted by emma-bessa

I do not like it at all when shaabi numbers are a kind of parody of "trashy women from Cairo","bad girls with vulgar gestures","low level seedy nightclub dancer" etc.

Thanks very much for saying that. I find that type of caricature from dancers really troubling, not to mention pretty classist and 'otherizing', too.

There is a feel of authenticity in terms of movement and style and steps and music that those of us from outside the culture strive for, but there is also an important aspect of authenticity to *oneself* that we need to retain. If you are not including who you are in the mix, you are a carbon copy of something you only observed, and I feel there is a loss in presentation. I want to see good dancing, I want to know you love and feel and breathe the song, I want to see you have worked hard to make it look so darn effortless--but I also really want to see you, and glimpse who you are! (General 'you' here, of course!) So if someone really is a a gum chewing trash talker and it works for the presentation, rock on! If not, play up who you are with your dance, and it will feel as real as can be. To me, whose glimpses of personality and confidence seem key for shaabi and anything rooted in beledi, but I believe ultimately it is also at the core of Oriental.

I recognize, of course, that this showing of oneself can also be the most vulnerable aspect of performance for dancers, which is also why it is so powerful, and may be why dance is something that can deepen so damn much as dancers grow (both in age and experience). I have worked with dancers who can get away with stuff that is often seen as a no-no...but with them it is a yes-yes! Nothing like it!

In my opinion. :)

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

It is not a myth, it is what seperates people.. baladi and sha'abi and the new rich.

"Mythical" may have been a poor choice of words. I meant not that it was imaginary, but that it was something students chase after, knowing it's something they want, but they lack the precision of education to figure out how to get there from where they start. I'm not sure a lot of students who succeed don't do it on the basis of simply being very good at picking up subtleties on their own and learning by osmosis. As a general statement, Western teachers don't do a particularly good job of teaching body language, so the idea that these details of stylization can be learned may as well be a myth. Foreign dancers who are able to make these refinements to their presentation are rare, and the ones who are able to identify what they have changed about their own body language so they can pass that information on to others are rarer still.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

As a general statement, Western teachers don't do a particularly good job of teaching body language, so the idea that these details of stylization can be learned may as well be a myth.

Generally speaking it is exremely difficult to teach these things.. you can't get it taught from a trip to a Cairo festival either. We can however subconsiously absorb these things over time. We do it mostly when we watch dancers (particularly ones from Egypt), hence the reason why it is SO important to watch dancers and not just dance ourselves.

Foreign dancers who are able to make these refinements to their presentation are rare, and the ones who are able to identify what they have changed about their own body language so they can pass that information on to others are rarer still.

I agree. It depends on a few things, a how similiar ones own culture maybe b) how imprinted with their own culture a person maybe and c) how self aware people maybe. Similarly, it is not essential to cover this aspect. Yasmina of Cairo does not have these Egyptian traits, she finely balanced the essence of the dance with her own culture..representation of Sha'abi would probably be her own expression of it.

Funny enough, the dancers who are good at this tend not to be great at both styles..there are exceptions. Asmahan is one of them.