Thread: question for improv dancers

Curious as to other improv dancers methodology-if you can call it such.

Do you:

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)?

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform?

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart?

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there?

Discuss: :)

All of the above

I've got my favorites, and I tend to have a set number that I work on for a season, but I'll pull out a new tune that really captured me, or return to an old favorite too. Having a full set or 2 prerecorded for a full season makes it easy to pull together before a show. Otherwise I tend to procrastinate and pray my computer will rip the CD faster as I'm putting on my make up!

I was asked to pick my music for a weekly event in July way back in April, and I find myself thinking "I wonder if she'd let me swap it out for this one" on almost a weekly basis.

Do you:

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)?
No.

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform?
Yes.

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart?
It depends... sometimes I do practice a lot to the song I'm planning on using, even if I'm not choreographing the routine. Other times I can't for whatever reason, but I try to at least listen to the song as much as possible and visualize it.

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there?
If I'm dancing to live music, even if I've picked the song beforehand, I don't usually rehearse the song because I know it will be played differently and I don't want my brain to get used to it sounding a certain way. I do try to practice in some other way though, by practicing improvising to music I've never heard before, or practicing improvising to music that is similar to what I will be dancing to.

So I wouldn't say I'm ever unprepared or "just winging it," aside from the times where there have been issues with the sound system and I've had to dance to different music than I had planned, or when the band played something completely different from what I had requested.

I like to listen to mixes of music on my commute, around my house, in my car, etc...just get familiar with how the music makes me feel and try to listen for the "in-betweens" or subtleties within each piece - I might casually boogie around my house while I'm getting ready for work or a gig. I also will take some songs in to my coach and play with them a bit, trying different approaches to accents and whatnot. I almost always will throw a song into a set list (for the venues where I dance to CD music) and polish it through repetition there, feeling out what works and what doesn't.

Mostly for me, I just like to listen to a song plenty before dancing it. I visualize what I think a performance to that song should look like or what I would want to see from a dancer using the piece.

I like to have fresh songs for every performance, because, honestly, it's usually the same set of folks who see me perform over and over again. I make sure I get in a number of good practices to my music beforehand, so I know where the accents and changes are, and if I need to throw in a folkloric element. It's a good way to work in personal challenges, too- like, "can I do an entertaining taxim for 5 minutes?" I think the only time I have "true" improv is when I'm lucky enough to have live music, and don't know ahead of time what my songs will be. And, even if I do get to chose, I pick music I haven't performed to before so I can learn something new.

To prove a point to my students I recently danced to a song I had only heard once before the "real thing". Normally however, I'd listen and doddle with a song for about a dozen times before airing it to the public.

I used to dance to different songs almost every time I performed. But I've started shamelessly reusing songs, primarily for my restaurant sets.

The restaurants where I perform are not set up to accommodate choreography; small spaces, dance areas change depending on where people are seated, I often have to dodge patrons and waitstaff, etc. I've found it makes a huge difference to have music I know inside and out and have danced to a million times. Since restaurant dancing involves so much multi-tasking, knowing my music is one less thing to worry about.

I've also noticed a big difference if I'm performing at a community event and use some of my restaurant standards, I'm much more relaxed and feel like I'm able to engage with my audience better because I'm not worried about what's happening next in the music.

But I definitely like to rotate and add new music, which I frequently "break in" during my restaurant sets. But I will listen to them a million times and video myself improving to new songs before I take them to the dancefloor.

Originally Posted by Lara L

All of the above


I was asked to pick my music for a weekly event in July way back in April, and I find myself thinking "I wonder if she'd let me swap it out for this one" on almost a weekly basis.

I know that feeling! I hate having to chose my music even a week in advance sometimes! I always want to change it that day.

Originally Posted by jamielynn

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)?

My circumstances mean that I don't perform often enough to do this without going crazy. I don't gig regularly, so at that rate, I'd be able to track my performances like counting tree rings.

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform?

Occasionally, I reuse songs. It depends on how I feel, but I have way more songs I'd like to use than opportunities to perform, so I don't tend to repeat much when left to my own devices.

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart?

I don't completely wing it, but I figure that the closest I get to being able to do improv is to not overuse my music. I choreograph loosely and try to leave enough open that the piece doesn't feel "nailed down."

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there?

I haven't had to do that, and I haven't had the chance to dance to live music where the musicians can play unexpected things. Unless you are extremely familiar with the structure of Arabic music and have a lot of performing experience, I wouldn't recommend anyone dance so "off the cuff" that they only heard the song on the way to the show, if they don't have to.

Background:
I perform twice a week, year round, at a Greek restaurant where I can use whatever music I want. I use Egyptian music with one or two greek tracks each set.

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)?
I have about a dozen favourites for each type (entrance, drum solo, classic song, greek), less pop and less taxsims (not the venue for it). I use those frequently but the list is always evolving.

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform?
I make playlists on my ipod so I can tweak them show by show to match my moods and audience response. I use about 100 different songs in new combinations. Sometimes I revisit older playlists. I try not to dance to the same playlists too close together. I may only cycle through 100 songs in 6 months but I change the combination of songs on each playlist.

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart?
Both. When I have time that evening I "get into the mood" by dancing to different playlists to pick one or create one (usually just the entrance piece). Often I pick a playlist by listening to them as I get ready (including driving to the show).

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there?
I prefer to goof around with it at home first but I have done what you mention several times.

In addition . . .
BTW, all my answers apply for my regular gig where I feel comfortable and at home. It's a good place to take risks with new music. For unique gigs (weddings, parties, new restaurants), a lot more prep and thought goes into it.

I also want to add that re-using music you know well (from frequent recent listenings and noodlings OR oldies but goodies that you used to love) helps me be a better hostess at the restaurant.

As restaurant dancers, I feel our job is the be the gorgeous hostess who parades around full of social graces making every guest feel comfortable (by letting them watch from a distance, clap, chat, dance with you, etc according to their preference). Yes, we are dancers but we are also a marketing gimmick adding interest to the venue. This is business first, art second. Stage shows are different.

When I know the music like an long-time lover, I have more faculties to devote to the audience instead of being a good "improviser" at flying by the hem of my skirt with grace. Improvising to music I know intimately makes my dance less celebral and more intuitive. I think it makes of a better show.

I see no problem re-suing music frequently because people will remember the power and prescense of your dance more so than the music you used. So long as you are not getting boring or predictable, dance to the music that still fills you with passion everytime.

I am thoroughly enjoying reading everyone's various responses and methods! Thank you for sharing! (And yes, I'm totally guilty of the listening to the song in the car on the way up there as my practice! haha! I guess I like the extra pressure it puts on me to perform to something I don't know....makes me feel like I really can think on my feet and do a good job.)

Originally Posted by Hala Jamal

Background:

I see no problem re-suing music frequently because people will remember the power and prescense of your dance more so than the music you used. So long as you are not getting boring or predictable, dance to the music that still fills you with passion everytime.

There's also the element of regulars getting to know the music as well. A familiar piece can get people excited (as long as it's not pushed into the over used category!)

Yes, all of the above for me too; I think it depends on the venue as well, the context; and for sure how you're feeling on any particular day

one thing is for sure tho, it's of primary importance to have music that moves you to get the best dancing to come out.

I improv alot, and I've choreographed before as well. That said, when I prepare for an improvisation peice, I dedicate as much time to it as I do learning and creating a choreography.

I work on reviving old moves, learning new moves, creating dynamic combos, subtle combos, work on implementing facial expression on spot as opposed to the "I have this choreographed and know where to make the correct facial/emotional whatnots", I practice imrovising with different songs as well as the one I plan on using. I spend alot of time practicing and implementing the mood that I wnat to get across.

I do not "just wing it". It's my job to ensure that I am doing my best when I perform. "Winging it" doesn't do the job for me.

Originally Posted by jamielynn

Curious as to other improv dancers methodology-if you can call it such.

Do you:

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)?

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform?

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart?

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there?

Discuss: :)

all of the above .i am totally into the music night and day, in the car...all night in the studio. the music has set patterns your ear learns. after awhile, nothing is much of a suprise, you have heard it before, but in another song.
i got out of other forms of dance as soon as i had control of my future , so i would not be forced to do another dancers dance .we are all our own person..we have our own souls to feed and express.

Wanted to add that, though it's not for everybody, some of best performances I've done to live music were ones in which I just said, "play whatever you want, I'll try to keep up ;-)" Those usually tend to go better for me than when I request specific songs and expect to hear them a certain way. Not every dancer is comfortable with this - and you should be comfortable. And not every band will appreciate not being given a specific request.

You have to feel comfortable with your knowledge of the general music genre - be it Turkish, Egyptian, etc. - and be ready to just have fun, maybe get a little tripped up here and there and just dance your way through it. The outcome is often a wonderfully organic and spontaneous creation between musician and dancer - and audiences absolutely appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Khalilah

Wanted to add that, though it's not for everybody, some of best performances I've done to live music were ones in which I just said, "play whatever you want, I'll try to keep up ;-)" Those usually tend to go better for me than when I request specific songs and expect to hear them a certain way.

I think that depends on the musicians! Schehera has a great anecdote about the time she told Eddie Kochak to play whatever he wanted and he schooled her good! There's a short version of the story here: John Clow interviews Shehera of Ohio for the Gilded Serpent

I'll check that out :-) And I agree with you - like I said, depends on the band. Some musicians are happy to play whatever is in their soul/repertoir without a specific request, some want specific requests from the dancer(s) - and both are capable of making the dancer really work for it! I find that part of the fun - because usually it's in good spirit. When musicians intentionally try to trip up a dancer in a malicious way, you've got a whole other set of problems to deal with. Especially live drum solos - it's a good opportunity to showcase the drummer, play off each other, try to lead and follow in turns. Some drummers really like to throw complicated combinations at their dancers - I have found that it's not so much about "can you hit everything they're playing" but more about how you react and interact. This is true for the rest of the band as well.

The skill to dance to unknown music is something that my coach works me on regularly. She'll pick something random from her (HUGE) library of music, push play and see what I can do. I love it and feel it makes me a stronger dancer and more confident performer.

Originally Posted by jamielynn

Curious as to other improv dancers methodology-if you can call it such.

Do you:

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)? For gigging, I tend to use the same 3-4 sets for quite some time, tweaking them occasionally. My gigs tend to be private functions, so it's not like a restaurant/club audience that would eventually notice the same 4 sets over and over ad nauseum -- not to mention the fact that the owner/manager would probably figure it out right away! That said, if I did restaurant work regularly, I would re-work my sets on a continuous basis, keeping some of the same songs and changing others in and out, eventually changing everything up completely.

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform? This happens mostly with live music. Even then, I usually know the musicians very well, as well as their work, so although I might get different songs from them each time, I am at least familiar with most of them.

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart? Generally, I dance the song alot before a performance, and a ton of times for a gig. Just this past weekend, tho, I did Cairo Caravan almost cold; I already knew the music, but more time with the edited versions I was using would have been better.

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there? Well, that has happened -- alot. For gigging, I am very well prepared but for dancing at a hafla or other casual event . . . well, let's just say I frequently select my music the night before or the day of! ACK!

Most of the time when I use more of a "winging it" method of performing, I'm dancing to old standards that I've known for many years (good ol' "AmCab" stuff), or a newer piece with which I am very familiar like a pop-y Arabic song.

OTOH, if I'm using Arabic orchestral music, then I've studied it quite a bit because it needs so much effort to really make the music visible. Heck, I might have even choreographed some of it!

Most of my "gigging" pieces end up being "structured improv" simply due to the fact that I begin to develop default movements at certain points in the music because I know it so well and perform it so often and I get such a good response to that backbend when the kanoun starts playing. I could just as easily do something completely different at that same point in the music and I wouldn't consider it a "mistake" because it's all improv anyway.

I love improv for the close-up-and-personal entertainment I do at parties and other, "non-stage" events. I prefer much more planning when I do any kind of stage show, to be certain I get the most out the music within my ability.

Deborah

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)? Yes, if I can. I have songs that I just think feel good to improv too.

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform? I tend not too but if I do through in a new song, it is one I know well.

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart? This is how I do it. Before the last show that I hosted, I didn't want anything else on my plate so I improved and added the songs I chose to a playlist that included the songs from my group choreo. I played that list exclusively as my background music at work and danced to the improv songs every time I practice.

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there? I rehearse but I also listen to my music over and over.

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)? It depends, I have some go-to songs for parties and restaurant gigs. They are crowd pleasers and I know them well enough I can dance to them and be the entertaining hostess without having to think too hard about the music. For stage shows I tend to rotate through songs frequently, maybe dance to something 2-3 times in subsequent shows and then move on to something new.

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform? See above

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart? I liisten to my music a lot, even if I'm improvising to it. In the car, at work, at home. I spend much time listening and not dancing to it. I might get a mental "video" going of what I'd like it to look like, and then try and match that when I dance to it. I like the organic element to my dancing and am not afraid to totally screw it up (and I have).

I've done live music at competitions where you don't know what is going to be played until your feet hit the stage, and even then its often a song I've never heard before. But as someone else was saying, with ME music there are phrasings and melodies that are common so it helps to be comfortable with how one would move through this. That said, I'm not expert and sometimes still wind up in the wrong place with the wrong accent, all part of the experience.

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there?
If I've picked my own music I have spent many weeks listening to it.

But I'm doing a dance challenge this weekend where someone else is picking my music and I won't know what it is until she plays it. We've been discussing some other improv games and challenges to encourage dancers to get out of their comfortable place and be able to handle situations with live music or when your music screws up/you get someone elses song.

We did that same challenge here in Austin a few years back-it was great fun! Every dancer submitted a five to seven minute song and then 20 minutes before the show we drew our songs. Some of the songs were familiar but not the one I ended up choosing so it was very much "respond as it is happening", which I personally love.

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)?
No, I don't tend to recycle songs.

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform?
Yep :)

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart?
I might practice once or twice to "brainstorm" ideas, but too much practice can dehydrate the magic of the moment during improv.

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there?
I will usually obsessively listen to the song so that I know every accent off by heart, because I feel more comfortable dancing to it then.

xx
Athena

I don't perform very often, but I definitely have my set of favorite songs. I'm always on the lookout for new songs that I really love dancing to, but I don't come across them too often. I can open/social dance to whatever, but for a performance I like the song to mean something to me. Usually when I've gotten to know a song really well, the basic framework will take shape around the music, and then the other moves fall into place during the dance. I wouldn't call it winging it precisely, but sometimes I surprise myself.

Dance to the same songs over and over again (say maybe 5 or more that you like the very very best)?
*Both? At venues that don't have regulars I tend to choose from the same 30 or so (venue appropriate) songs and go through phases with favorites. But I choose songs that help me create a strong show. At my Fri and Sat night club w regulars there every time, I have to mix it up more, offer variety, make selections according to who is in the audience etc. Sometimes I take song requests.

Dance to different songs almost every time you perform?
*No. But I do change my playlists often. This is sort of venue dependent. If I love a song it will remain in my repertoire. If it doesn't click I won't use it again.

Dance your songs repeatedly before a performance or just wing it, knowing the music well enough by heart?
*I don't consider knowledgeable improvisation "just winging it"... for "important" songs (classics) I'll get a translation and work through the song. For some songs I just listen and practice in my head/visualize. Some times I just get out there and do it- for example last night I did that with an intro piece. But the structure of the song tells you the kinds of moves to choose from.

Dance to a song having not rehearsed it at all and only listened to it in the car a few times on the way there?
* Sure. At a regular venue with regulars there is such a demand for change. We can't do what the Egyptian dancers do and have the same show for 6 months. BUT, there is a balance and they are always happy to see juicy old favorites AND I only do this if I feel really confident with with the song. There have been plenty of times I listened to a song on the way there and scratched using it that night, in favor of something I knew I could "deliver" with.
When I make new CDs for classes (dance AND pilates) I incorporate songs I want to work on next. I listen to the music constantly, this helps it get "inside" more so improvising to it is more intuitive.