Thread: What's with the attitude to Suhalia

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBHQGpdM6ak]YouTube - SUHAILA SALIMPOUR @ AHLAN WA SAHLAN[/ame]

Because of the mention of "Suhalia influence" in the lamented WTF threads I thought I'd look more into what this was via Youtube. I know the lady has great stature in American Bellydance but the one video I bought was not for me ( I'm just not fit/supple enough !)But I was not prepared for the "slagging off" of her and her style on Youtube. Wow!
So what goes on?
She couldn't come to UK's IBDS and I know some Brit dancers were devastated as they were eagerly awaiting her coming to us at last. She has such a high reputation here but some don't seem to love her in her home country.

Who is Ethnic Arts who seems to hate her so much?

And frankly the video is so poor I find it hard to see how they can make such judgements. There is another of her at AWS with Isabella and some seem to think she was "using " the child putting her on stage. Now I am not fond of performing children ( taught too many of the little boogers) BUT ever met a little gal keen on her dance who you wouldn't be hard put to stop getting up there..they love it! Hardly using a kid.

I'm with you... I don't understand what was so bad about it. I bet she is a great performer to see live. Looks very passionate.

Who is Ethnic arts? I don't place any stake in opinions so obviously and vehemently biased.

She reminded me a lot of Nagua in places in that performance.

"Ethnic Arts" is some kind of youtube troll. I don't think Suhaila is the only victim of his/her nastiness.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

"Ethnic Arts" is some kind of youtube troll. I don't think Suhaila is the only victim of his/her nastiness.

THTX is right. I would take his comments (or his compliments, for that matter) with a grain of salt. He can be downright mean.

I actually like Suhaila, and I don't think people were trying to mean in the WTF thread when they said the video was "Suhaila Insprired".

Originally Posted by lizajuk

But I was not prepared for the "slagging off" of her and her style on Youtube. Wow! So what goes on?

Little bit of the green-eyed monster, I'd say. ;)

Suhaila has been, is, and will continue to be a very dynamic personality. People like that are always under attack from less dynamic people with unresolved self-esteem issues.

A lot of people feel that if you don't fit into the little narrow box of their determining, then you're not good, or you're not a proper dancer, or you're not a "real" bellydancer -- and they feel the need to post such comments on Youtube. Some people have never learned that just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not valid art, or that it's not good art, or whatever.

Who is Ethnic Arts who seems to hate her so much?

You know what, maybe it's somebody who lives in El Cerrito, and maybe Suhaila cut him off in traffic one day? Who knows what his/her issue is. EA may have valid points on some of his other comments but they're worded in such a way that makes me think he's just a hater.

Suhaila's been in the biz a LONG time and she's sure to have pissed off somebody, directly or indirectly, in that amount of time. Some of the artistic decisions she's chosen to make with her dance company have put her under fire on Bhuz and in our community. Remember Kaya and Sadie's Kama Sutra debacle? There are people online who, 3 years ago sung the praises of Sadie, who now wouldn't touch her with a 10-meter pole. We're a fickle group, we public. If you don't live up to our expectations, we can turn on you in a heartbeat.

FWIW -- I enjoyed Suhaila's videos, but never really had a driving ambition to dance like her or study her format until I took the Level 1 workshop. I fell immediately in love with her as a teacher. My dance mentor had a workshop with Suhaila several years ago and didn't care for it. To each her own. There are equally famous instructors I've had workshops with and didn't click with at ALL, and frankly would like to never see in person again. But I don't post nasty comments on their Youtube videos.

And frankly the video is so poor I find it hard to see how they can make such judgements.

Exactly. If you want to see Suhaila NOW, as she is in the year 2000s, the solo show DVD is excellent.

There is another of her at AWS with Isabella and some seem to think she was "using " the child putting her on stage.

I've only met Isabella once, but she was a very precocious and self-assured child who seemed to genuinely ENJOY being on stage. I think Suhaila and her family are deliberately trying to give her the best possible environment for experiencing this dance, and trying to make sure she doesn't burn out on it and can still love it when she's 40. They DON'T throw her on stage as an attention-getter, and they're pretty stringent as to how and where she can publicly perform.

Suhaila is great. She's an amazing performer, a wonderful teacher, and a downright SWEET person. :)

while her style isn't my cup of tea for MYSELF to learn and dance, I do appreciate how difficult it is, and how much hard work goes into what she does. I think perhaps I'm just too lazy to put that much discipline into my training...which is a crying shame.

I loves Suhaila though. I got the same vibe, that on the WTF threads people were saying "Suhaila-inspired" like it was a bad thing, but hey...its SO easy to confuse what people mean when you're just reading it, as opposed to people actually speaking and hearing the inflection. So, I'm hoping that I misread the UNMATA comments too, because I love, admire and respect those ladies very much too.

Hugs, love, and glute squeezes to all!!!

I took a level one class with her and her protege, Tiffany, a year or so ago and had my fragile dance ego knocked in the dirt as we revolved around a chair for 6 hours while repeating right foot, left foot! It was much like boot camp where the drill sargent must break you down to build you back up. While I simply could not adopt her special technique physically, I did get more than my monies worth on theory and execution. I found her to warm and caring, but there is no doubt she is a DIVA, and has worked hard for the right to be one!

Originally Posted by analathered

I took a level one class with her and her protege, Tiffany, a year or so ago and had my fragile dance ego knocked in the dirt as we revolved around a chair for 6 hours while repeating right foot, left foot! It was much like boot camp where the drill sargent must break you down to build you back up. While I simply could not adopt her special technique physically, I did get more than my monies worth on theory and execution. I found her to warm and caring, but there is no doubt she is a DIVA, and has worked hard for the right to be one!

Mmm, new thread coming up....

I think part of the negative reaction to Suhaila is that she has a "method" in which you can be "certified". She's very much convinced that her way to dance is the right way to dance, and I think this puts some people off. She won't hesitate to tell you that you are doing the 3/4 shimmy the "wrong way." I don't personally agree with that kind of approach, but I enjoy her dancing and her dedication to the art.

I really enjoy the dancing from her earlier years. I think she's got great muscle control and she has a very unique style. I know people who have taken her techinque workshops and after just one weekend with her you can see a great big difference in their dancing.

Personally, I think that she's got a larger ego than maybe need be. But that's part of what makes her interesting. She's good and she knows it and she's letting you enjoy her being good.

I think people got a little derailed on liking her with some of the off-shots of belly dance events that she's done but I dont' think she's ever billed them as anything but fusion style shows. They are a little much for me, so therefore I don't watch them. Imagine, not watching something you know you wouldn't like. The horrors! Using my own best judgement to not watch something that I'm fairly certain I won't dig.

I'm being snarky here fyi! LOL! Dont' want anyone to take it the wrong way!

I agree about kaya and sadie. I actually just didn't dig them from the start. I like Saide's dancing though and I would totally buy her IAMED drum solo video if I had a spare dime. She's a great dancer, why let one bad decision cloud your judgement forever? god only knwos we've all done stupid things they may not just have been as much in the public eye!

sadie is GOOD and nice. whata concept.....tina

Considering the volume of Sadie videos - in addition to the "incident" not surprising she'd reap the "rewards" of lots of exposure (heh heh...no pun intended)

Others have touched upon what I feel myself. I've seen Suhaila do some WONDERFUL and INCREDIBLE and BEAUTIFUL performances. I've also seen her do some tacky, tasteless, and borderline sleazy performances. There seems to be a lot of borderline sleaze in our community today that trickles down from that source. And yes, I think she has an ego that is a bit on the "too big" side. "Suhaila Certified" indeed!

So I'm conflated. I love her "good" stuff, I detest her "bad" stuff, so whatcha gonna do? At least she doesn't do "Coffee Table" performances even if I do find some of her stuff on the sleazy/tacky side. Although you won't find me worshiping at her altar, I do respect her abilities - and I think her mother walks on air!

Diva can be used in the negative...and often is. Prima Donna, literally - first lady, can also be used in the negative. Diva...semi divine...sub goddess, can be used by people who wish to describe an individual with a larger than life persona. Suhaila Salimpour was, as I stated in my post, a warm and caring instructor. While a very challenging teacher, she only wished the best for those who were in attendance, but didn't tread on egg shells when correcting her students. She plainly stated in her introduction to the class that her way was yet just another method to choose from. She has, in my humble opinion, worked for and achieved her status as Diva.
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Originally Posted by tigerb

I think part of the negative reaction to Suhaila is that she has a "method" in which you can be "certified". She's very much convinced that her way to dance is the right way to dance, and I think this puts some people off. She won't hesitate to tell you that you are doing the 3/4 shimmy the "wrong way." I don't personally agree with that kind of approach, but I enjoy her dancing and her dedication to the art.

I would have to disagree entirely about her attitude about the "right way" to dance because she and I talked about this at length.

She teaches a very specific method with a very specific terminology. The one thing she has harped on is that if you SAY you teach or dance Jamila Salimpour method (as some of us still do) then it only makes sense that you actually TEACH the ACTUAL method and not the version that the telephone game has given us.

She will explicitly say the "Basic Egyptian" step is not the pivot - shift - step movement that SOME tribal dancers have adopted -- and since Jamila named that step the Basic Egyptian step, I personally feel she has every right to ask that if you're going to CALL it that, please do it as it was originally taught.

I teach Basic Egyptian (which is a step and a hip TWIST) and I also teach a Step-hip, which is the step and hip LIFT that is often taught as the BE. Jamila's categorizations and terminology make sense to me, so I use them.

There are two 3/4 shimmies in Jamila's format (and now Suhaila's) -- the shimmy on the up and the shimmy on the down. To my knowledge, she does not use the down-out-up, which many of the UK dancers call the Egyptian walk -- but I've NEVER heard her say this is WRONG -- only that it's not what she's wanting from you at that moment.

Suhaila has always told our classes "Take this format and ADD IT to your existing dance vocabulary and technique." She explicitly says she's not trying to REPLACE what you know, but rather to add to it. To me, this indicates that although she might be convinced that her way is the right way FOR HER, she acknowledges that it's not the ONLY way for her students. I asked her about knee-driven shimmies (which she does not use) and she told me flat out, "Use them if you like them. But that's not what I'm teaching in this class."

I agree with Zorba and want to add my 2 bits. . .

People perceive that Suhaila has an ego the size of Alaska. That she feels that she is a force unto herself, bound by no particular rules.

I personally don't feel this way. I think that she has developed a style which has been successfully packaged and marketed. She has set a standard which people understand and acknowledge. She has, indeed, pushed boundaries, some of her costume choices definitely raise eyebrows, and yes, she does have a little bit of an ego. But coming from LaLaLand, I have to tell you, it is hard to NOT develop an ego of some type when being in 'show biz.'

{{{HUGS}}}

Disclaimer:I am a suhaila fan.

That being said, I DO NOT like her fusion crotch grabbing stuff. In fact, I detest it. I don't think she needs to do it.

I have went out to el cerrito for her week long and was blown away by how professional, and giving she was to all the students. How she really cared about what you were learning, and was SINCERE.
She was also amazingly kind and generous with her teaching assistants too.
I was extremely impressed.
I think she is a diva in the best sense of the word.

When you do have a big personality, you do attract polar opposite opinions, people either love or hate you. IT's the way it is.

Originally Posted by aziyade

I would have to disagree entirely about her attitude about the "right way" to dance because she and I talked about this at length.

She teaches a very specific method with a very specific terminology. The one thing she has harped on is that if you SAY you teach or dance Jamila Salimpour method (as some of us still do) then it only makes sense that you actually TEACH the ACTUAL method and not the version that the telephone game has given us.

...

There are two 3/4 shimmies in Jamila's format (and now Suhaila's) -- the shimmy on the up and the shimmy on the down. To my knowledge, she does not use the down-out-up, which many of the UK dancers call the Egyptian walk -- but I've NEVER heard her say this is WRONG -- only that it's not what she's wanting from you at that moment.

Suhaila has always told our classes "Take this format and ADD IT to your existing dance vocabulary and technique." She explicitly says she's not trying to REPLACE what you know, but rather to add to it. To me, this indicates that although she might be convinced that her way is the right way FOR HER, she acknowledges that it's not the ONLY way for her students. I asked her about knee-driven shimmies (which she does not use) and she told me flat out, "Use them if you like them. But that's not what I'm teaching in this class."

With respect, at the one workshop I took from Suhaila, the choreo had a 3/4 shimmy in it. She basically said, Don't do some other 3/4 shimmy, I want you to use THIS 3/4 shimmy. After working that section again, she chided us, saying something like, I saw a lot of other 3/4 shimmies out there!

Now, having said that, I also want to say that she wasn't a b*tch about it, and she didn't harp on that subject the whole time. But she did clearly seem to think we were doing the "wrong" shimmy.

If you work with her all the time, clearly you would get a different picture of her than somebody who has only been around her for a brief workshop.

I do know of someone else who had a very bad workshop experience with her. She has a sensitivity to loud noise and didn't realize that Suhaila planned to have the entire class zill all day. When she asked, "I thought we were zilling this afternoon?" Suhaila actually submitted her to a lecture about how students should always bring their zills everywhere, yada yada. When the student had to withdraw from the class because she couldn't take the clamor, I guess she didn't get much sympathy from Suhaila, either. She told the story on LJ.

Originally Posted by yasmindiab

I loves Suhaila though. I got the same vibe, that on the WTF threads people were saying "Suhaila-inspired" like it was a bad thing, but hey...its SO easy to confuse what people mean when you're just reading it, as opposed to people actually speaking and hearing the inflection. So, I'm hoping that I misread the UNMATA comments too, because I love, admire and respect those ladies very much too.

I don't see how saying it is inspired by someone is a negative comment?

No, my comment about being Suhaila and Unmata inspired were not negative. I am friends with Amy and Shelley--we are big fans of each other! And while I am not a fan of Suhaila's dancing, I have great respect for her format and technique. While not for me as a whole, her approach has been an inspiration in my own teaching, and I am thankful for that.

Originally Posted by *maria*

I DO NOT like her fusion crotch grabbing stuff. In fact, I detest it. I don't think she needs to do it.

That's right. And this cr@p is spreading faster than a wildfire in an oil refinery.

Originally Posted by zorba

That's right. And this cr@p is spreading faster than a wildfire in an oil refinery.

sadly, yes it is.

I think her performance was great and yes, and some performances I seen are questionable taste level and I seen great performances.. maybe she had off day on that clip.I wish the camera wasn't blurred. Talking to her at Raks East a few years ago she is a nice person at least to me. As for her method of teaching I took a workshop, her style is not my cup of tea.I did learn how to do good shimmies after that class.

Alrana

From what I have seen of Suhaila's dance, I don't much like it, but I imagine she is pretty mighty to watch live and she certainly can isolate like lord only knows what. Her skills are undeniable. Also, she is beautiful and I don't think she is fat at all. I think the combo of looks, a well-bolstered ego (she's been getting positive attention as a dancer from infancy) and perhaps a sense of herself as Princess Belllydance, since she is after all Jamila's daughter and Was There in the golden years of US belly dance, right in the thick of it, conspires against her for some people. And frankly from the sound of things she doesn't really need people giving her a lot of grief right now.

It was much like boot camp where the drill sargent must break you down to build you back up.

I'm told Jamila was like a drill sergeant as well, so that's hardly a surprise. Suhaila learned how to teach literally at her mother's knee.

Originally Posted by tigerb

With respect, at the one workshop I took from Suhaila, the choreo had a 3/4 shimmy in it. She basically said, Don't do some other 3/4 shimmy, I want you to use THIS 3/4 shimmy. After working that section again, she chided us, saying something like, I saw a lot of other 3/4 shimmies out there!

I was at the same workshop but I interpreted this directive differently. To me, it meant use this particular 3/4 shimmy in this particular choreography and this particular workshop... not that this 3/4 shimmy is the one true shimmy so forsake all others. Why, in a Suhaila workshop would we not expect her to want us to do the shimmy she's teaching in said workshop?

Sorry to hear about the other person's aversion to the zilling. Although I follow in the belief that one should *always* have zils, veil, and dance shoes with them in classes or workshops, things like all-day-zilling should be advertised in a workshop description so that folks know what to bring and what to expect.

I adored Suhaila as a teacher and a person. Her performance style, although I can agree it's great on the technique, is just not my cup of tea. I'll take her workshops whenever I can though. Fantastic teacher!

Originally Posted by mihri

I was at the same workshop but I interpreted this directive differently. To me, it meant use this particular 3/4 shimmy in this particular choreography and this particular workshop... not that this 3/4 shimmy is the one true shimmy so forsake all others. Why, in a Suhaila workshop would we not expect her to want us to do the shimmy she's teaching in said workshop?

Sorry to hear about the other person's aversion to the zilling. Although I follow in the belief that one should *always* have zils, veil, and dance shoes with them in classes or workshops, things like all-day-zilling should be advertised in a workshop description so that folks know what to bring and what to expect.

I adored Suhaila as a teacher and a person. Her performance style, although I can agree it's great on the technique, is just not my cup of tea. I'll take her workshops whenever I can though. Fantastic teacher!

Obviously I'm not going to argue with your interpretation, because that's just my point -- to some people she comes off as a driven and dedicated dance teacher, but to others she comes off as... er... something less positive.

My position on whether I would take more workshops from her... is probably no. Not because of her attitude, but because her method is just way too athletic for me and my fitness level. I only dance once a week, so after just Suhaila's warmup I can't even walk!!

I've been at some of the same workshops as people who have given them poor reviews later, and I've always wondered what it was that I missed. I think sometimes people see what they expect to see. If you expect Diva, you see Diva, maybe.

I expected a Diva when I did my first workshop with Suhaila -- as a matter of fact, I blogged about the whole experience on Tribe for months before the workshop. I wasn't really interested in her or in "dancing like Suhaila" but I felt I owed it to myself to at least see what her method was all about. I had no interest in testing and frankly I figured she would be a stuck-up beeatch, which I ALSO blogged about.

When I met her and did the workshop, I had a complete and total reversal of attitude, and became extremely interested in her method and in having her as a teacher. She later teased me about my early blog entries (which I found out she read) saying "and you were the one who was all like, "Oh Suhaila -- what's the big deal with her? What's so great about her method?"

FWIW, I have found MUCH more diva-tude in a couple of North American Egyptian-style teachers that I respect and have learned much from, but still can't stand to talk to because of their egomania.

i haven't taken a workshop of her's, i've not bought any of her videos or other merchandise.

I do love her clips on Youtube.

I'm very intrigued by her and the amount of chatter about her. I saw her perform live at Ahlan Wa Sahlan this summer and the Egyptians I was sitting with hated it, they said she was doing way too much movement. I thought it was great. I also ended up eating in the restaurant late one night when she, her entourage and Isabella were there. So I eavesdropped and she seemed pretty nice.

I really want to take a workshop with her but I think i'll buy a video first to get a little prepared. I'm sure I probably don't do any movements like she does.

My teacher loves her and talks about how she has such a powerful butt. I have no problem with divatude if it's earned. I think she's earned it.

I am shocked by the Youtube comments. It seems that she gets it worse than any other dancer on the tube. Which is saying alot because there are some pretty ugly things said about dancers there. It seems like alot of haters to me. jealousy

Originally Posted by zumarrad

From what I have seen of Suhaila's dance, I don't much like it, but I imagine she is pretty mighty to watch live and she certainly can isolate like lord only knows what.

That's part of what I think has caused all of this Suhaila-hate online. Honestly, when I see video of Suhaila, I'm frequently a little underwhelmed given how famous she is, and I totally did not get her appeal until I saw her perform live. She totally blew me away. Similarly, I was completely put off by her demeanor on her instructional videos, but she is really as nice in person at workshops as everyone is saying she is.
Like other people have said, I think that people frequently find her threatening because she is so well-marketed and she promotes herself well. Personally, I think everyone has the right to market themselves to their heart's content. It doesn't bother me unless you are doing something to hurt other dancers, like poaching gigs or spreading untrue rumors. Marketing is a necessary evil, if you want to see it that way, but no one would be able to achieve her level of success without the talent to back it up.
I can't say that I like most of her "crotch-grabbing" stuff either, but individual pieces in that vein don't really affect how I feel about her overall.

what is this crotch grabbing everyone is referring to? i've never seen it. do u really mean she grabs her crotch ala michael jackson? how does it fit in the dance? when was this?