Thread: So just who is a great dancer

Post a clip and justify!
In response to "and I honestly don't get what is so great about "the greats". " and with respect because everyone is entitled to their point of view and to express it. We all of us came to this dance from a personal perspective and have personal experiences. We all have different influences and education form our teachers.
I was directed to "the greats" and fell in love with Samia et al. for their easy charm and grace . I aslo fell for the gutsy power of Fifi but where were you directed and who grabbed you and held your attention and made you think "That's great".
I am truly interested in how we got to land on different planets!

I'll bite. I think the really great dancers are those that have technical skill yet they bring something of their own to the dance. They have a style that is uniquely their own. They aren't copycats. When you look at that dancer you say,that's Samia, that's Tahia, that's Fifi. Not oh, she must have studied with Bobby or Suhaila, etc.

For instance, here is my friend Shadiah. Her big influence was Mona Said. Yet when you watch her perform, you don't see Mona Said. You see Shadiah. She has her own unique style. I know back when I was dancing in the big nightclubs, the few, the very few girls who were the top dancers and in high demand, all had that same quality. Uniqueness combined with great dance technique and personality.

Shadiah, Detroit Belly Dancer, Live Drum Solo and Zills - YouTube

I'll partly bite -- your comment got me thinking of a more expansive concept.

My pre-BD background = ballet and theatre, primarily. I had long been interested in the concept of stillness in expression and in movement -- roughly, words like 'connection' more than 'skills' or even 'entertainment' (in a shallower sense) characterise what dance was for me and what I seek in my dancing.

I was first drawn to ME dance because, based on my first impressions, it was not based on tricks, youth, or empty skills, but rather was dance stripped down to a dancer and a connection with music (and what rich music and culture!). I was first directed to look at the usual 'greats' (Sohair, Fifi, particularly, but also lots of Reda, Bobby Farah and students, etc.).

Through exploring ME dance, I have learned more about HOW to appreciate a given dance, but I am not sure that I have really changed WHAT I appreciate or seek out to watch. I am keen to hear from others on this. Our tastes are so dependent on personal interests as well as beliefs about certain dancers/dances, and it is uncommon for beliefs to change.

I'm reminded of an interview published in Arabesque with Nadia Gamal (?). She was asked if she thought that Oriental dance was limited in its content/scope. She replied that Oriental dance was not limited because Dance was limitless. Art is not limited. I think that is tremendously important, because we don't have a tool that can only do one thing, rather, we have a vocabulary.

Also, that limitlessness is important because there are different needs, even within the same person at different times. Sometimes, I don't want to watch Famous Jane. Sometimes, I ignore my husband and my dishes because I can't stop watching Famous Jane videos. Sometimes I don't want to watch anything, and I either rest in stillness or explore some other current obsession. That doesn't invalidate Famous Jane as an artist, nor does it invalidate me as an artist.

Longwinded way to say: I hesitate to say "great" or "not great" about a dancer. Someone may be great one day, and not great another. Heck, someone may be great for one audience member one night and not great for the rest! I ascribe to the thought that art fills needs, in addition to that of entertainment.

So. A great dancer is someone who is honest and is willing to share her self, and has the technical skill to do so. That honesty is what is required to reach another person, share a feeling, express one's interpretation. (Much like Norma said.) That goal can be achieved somewhat independently of the dance style.

Side note:
I have since learned that there are still tricks, skills, hot/fast/prop-laden stuff in ME dance and influenced dance forms. This is a *good thing*, because it means that the dance still 'has something' for people who are driven to those styles. Sometimes we forget that what is shallow to us may not be shallow to another person or that there can be a deep pleasure resulting from a simple thing (like comedy, or enjoying the feeling of a movement well done -- there's nothing "wrong" with sharing that with others).... but that's another thread.

Well- I'm so glad I'm sparking such interesting conversations- and what a great question!

I can't go through clips right now to post my own thoughts- my bf is alseep about 5 feet away LOL.

I think "great" is obviously relative- but I think I lump into my honest to god "greats" is the fact they weren't just incredible dancers- their influence actually changed the face of dance. So when I really look up to a dancer I take that into consideration- otherwise all other dancers go into - Love to watch... interesting to watch- and meh.

I have always enjoyed watching Fifi dance- so she's is on the list.

I think Rachel Brice is a genius. Jamila and Suhaila are incredible dancers- but also helped changed the face of dance today.

I think Tempest is currently a living legend who also helped change the face of dance.

and there is a dancer- I will have to go find her- I loved watching her- I was watching Dina (who I like) and her clip showed up on the side- and I went THAT"S my kind of dancer. But her name escapes me.

I'll come back with some clips a little later.

I am *supposed* to be getting the kids up for church, so I don't have time to link clips right now either (will try later)

So, I'll go with *why* I love some of my inspirational dancers. These are people who absolutely shaped who I am as a dancer.
Samia Gamal- pure joy in simplicity. For me, she is the innocence in dance- the fun summer vacation when you were 16 of dance.
Margo Abdo- pure emotional intensity. I swear just the way she turns her head when dancing is enough to capture the moment, but she does it with her whole body/self!
Nour- She is just comfortable in her own skin and throws her fantastic sense of humor into her dancing.
Nadia Hamdi- same deal- she's at home in her dancing and I love her sense of humor.
Nesrin Topkapi- okay, she's got great stage presence too, but I'll admit, I love her for her flexibility & "tricks" as some would call them. So shoot me. I've got a little circus spirit in me too.
Tanya of LV is so fantastically fluid but keeps throwing in little surprises and, again, she just looks like she's having the time of her life.
Ranya Renee just has ooey gooeyness to spare. I have no idea why I like her, but she is mesmerizing.
Tito- is just Tito and I shouldn't have to explain. Mostly because my jaw is on the floor and it is hard to talk that way.

Not to leave out all the fabulous dancers who have & do influence me, but those are the first 8 who popped into my head, whether they would be universally considered greats or not, they have forever changed me and the way I dance.

When I think of a great dancer, I think of Nelja Ates:

Nejla Ates (Son of Sinbad , 1955) - YouTube

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/albu...d35/803730.jpg

PEOPLE TODAY MAGAZINE NOV 1953 NELJA ATES | eBay

I love her dancing - It's that sort of effortless grace you see in master dancers, in addition to being uniquely Turkish. There's a sense of drama, a sense of comedy, and still enough unique 'hallmarks' to define herself as dancing not only Turkish-Style, but Nelja-style. Even her infamous pasty cover, there's this sort of fresh, almost innocent? vibe - a retro-glam that could easily be called cheesy or campy (and may in fact be called those things), but it works because she's such a skilled dancer.

She's got an unique look, clean and shiny and colorful, pasties or no!PEOPLE TODAY MAGAZINE NOV 1953 NELJA ATES | eBay

Originally Posted by norma

For instance, here is my friend Shadiah. Her big influence was Mona Said. Yet when you watch her perform, you don't see Mona Said. You see Shadiah. She has her own unique style.
Shadiah, Detroit Belly Dancer, Live Drum Solo and Zills - YouTube

Actually I can definitely see Mona. But in a good way, not a cookie-cutter way.

Originally Posted by ssipes

Actually I can definitely see Mona. But in a good way, not a cookie-cutter way.

Yeah, me too. It's in the relaxed, comfortable quality of the movement.

Yes any clips?

Originally Posted by maiaraqs

Yeah, me too. It's in the relaxed, comfortable quality of the movement.

But would you have been able to pick out Mona has an influence if I hadn't said so?

As far as who influenced me, my teacher of course, Princess Madiha who was strongly influenced by Samia Gamal and Tahia as she used to watch their movies in the theatre when she was a little girl.

However, 2 dancers also stand out as a personal influence, Fifi Abdo and Soheir Zaki.

I love everything about Fifi! Her hair, her costumes her earthy energy, and her flexible waist, her shimmies, her confidence.
Fifi Abdo, Yellow Silver Bedlah, Part 1 - YouTube

Fifi Abdo, Yellow Silver Bedlah, Part 2 - YouTube

I love Soheir Zaki's, crisp hip movements. She only has a handful of steps but she matches them perfectly to the music.She exudes a quiet confidence.

Soheir Zaki (green bedlah) Pt 1 - YouTube

Soheir Zaki (green bedlah) Pt 2 - YouTube

^ second this

I really found myself enjoying Soheir Zaki tremendously. I spent a few minutes watching some older clips and trying to get a better feel- and yep- I really enjoyed her flow.

Aza Sharif, without a doubt. Will expand on that and post a clip or two later on (at my work computer now and videos are currently blocked).

Ohhhh I am going to have SO much fun with this thread when I get some extra time!

Originally Posted by norma

But would you have been able to pick out Mona has an influence if I hadn't said so?

Yes.

(Disclaimer: I am wet behind the ears and in no way qualified to determine greatness...but...)

Apart from the brilliant classic dancers (Suheir Zaki, Fifi Abdo, both of whom someone more knowledgeable can explain better), for me, I'd have to argue that Tanyeli is great.

Not just because of her technique and style, but because she seems to take a lot of joy in dancing, and she has ridiculous amounts of stage presence and personality when she dances. She's compelling to watch.

Earlier Tanyeli:
Tanyeli - turkish bellydancer - YouTube

(I like the way she handles the music glitch at 3:45).

Later Tanyeli:
Tanyeli ,Turkish belly dancer on Turkish TV - YouTube

...She's great, IMHO.

My pick for a great of Raqs Sharqi: Nadia Gamal - She exudes passion and exuberance. She is completely her own dancer, unique in her approach, and still draws from the richness and diversity of her culture. She isn't perfect, but she is so full of giving energy on stage that I can't help but love everything about her.









I also absolutely love her piece on Rare Glimpses and the footage available at the Lincoln Center Performing Arts Library in NYC.

Ooo Nadia I have that last clip on VHS. She was lovely.Charmng and easy to watch. No often the mot perfect aren't the greatest somehow.Like Callas not perfect but a great package made her a dream.

By looking at the thread on Egyptian greats, everyone can see that I am a confirmed Egyptian bellydance fan but this lady is I think, one of the greats: I was introduced to Nesrin Topkapi by a friend who is a Turkish styl dancer and I think she truly is unique to watch. Her use of her wrapped veils, the way everything flows so easily is mesmerising.

NESR

Originally Posted by Khalilah

Aza Sharif, without a doubt. Will expand on that and post a clip or two later on (at my work computer now and videos are currently blocked).

Me too, on both counts--Asa Sharif and being on my work computer. The first footage I ever saw of her was that Bedouin-inspired tableaux where she's wearing the green costume and takes off her headpiece partway through as she's interacting with the drummer. In that clip, she was Magnificent Woman Incarnate, just a force of nature. I've collected all that I can find of her on DVD since then. One of my absolute favorites of all time.

(Strange, I'm so sure I replied to this a few days ago!)

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

Me too, on both counts--Asa Sharif and being on my work computer. The first footage I ever saw of her was that Bedouin-inspired tableaux where she's wearing the green costume and takes off her headpiece partway through as she's interacting with the drummer. In that clip, she was Magnificent Woman Incarnate, just a force of nature. I've collected all that I can find of her on DVD since then. One of my absolute favorites of all time.

That clip was shown to me by my coach when I first started lessons with her -- and it has stayed with me ever since. Her presence, her interaction with the musicians...she's got an earthiness in that particular performance that I like (not sure if that's really the right word I'm looking for, but it's the closest I can get) - all while dancing in her tippy-toes, giving a great sense of elegance at the same time. My coach specifically showed me that clip to show how a dancer should exit in style. She definitely does, but the whole performance is one of my all-time favorites

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

Me too, on both counts--Asa Sharif and being on my work computer. The first footage I ever saw of her was that Bedouin-inspired tableaux where she's wearing the green costume and takes off her headpiece partway through as she's interacting with the drummer. In that clip, she was Magnificent Woman Incarnate, just a force of nature. I've collected all that I can find of her on DVD since then. One of my absolute favorites of all time.

(Strange, I'm so sure I replied to this a few days ago!)

One of my all time favorites! This clip was on the first BD VHS tape I saw from overseas. It made a huge impression on me!
Azza Sharif - Parte 1 - YouTube

Azza Sharif - parte 2 - YouTube

my criterion for a great dancer: one who can improvise and dance just as well spontaneously. I strongly believe the roots of this dance are improvisational and thought i have seen many lovely choreographys, i feel that it is the greater dancer that doesn't rely on choreography.

i know this will be controversial, but sometimes i think choreo is a cheat, at least in this dance - the entire point for me is that it should be spontaneous display of feelings and music. choreo fakes that.

You sound like one of my teachers, who absolutely despises choreography. There's something about choreography, when it's not well done, you can really tell when they're anticipating the movements and rush to get to a point - it should look natural. I think there is a place for choreography, but I really think it needs to be drilled and practiced and danced until it appears as if it's improv.

I love improv, myself, and the freedom it provides.

And word to the Nesrin Topkapi shoutout. She's just magical. I LOVE her costuming style.