Thread: I must live in a cave....Bordello Belly is real

There are somethings I wished I didnt know about. I am new to Bhuz and delighted with the knowledge base I have found here. The wit, the humor and the friendship. But it has opened my eyes to stuff I didnt know was even possible. Kinda like going into a porn store for the first time in 20 years and seeing stuff you will never be able to unsee....stuff like this.....w.:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSU9lojXSVQ]YouTube - Slinky: The Nekyia's Belly Dance Burlesque[/ame]
It has been watched almost 19,000 times in 6 months. I want to see Strip Ballet take over the dance world. Lets see ballarinas get some respect after that goes world wide. I can see it now...what form of dance are you studying, Susie? Oh...ballet...I see...;,r:; ..l;,

PS..I have obviously been spending much more money on costumes than absolutley necessary.

I kinda don't like this....

i think i'm going to call my next bellydance event "bellydance bordello from hell" i'm sure ya folks in my neck are feelin' me;) tina

You know, this wouldn't be so bad if they didn't feel the need to attach the belly dance label. Why? Aside from the riq and a couple of very quick hip drops and an open-legged maya there's no belly dance movement in this number. It's fine as a jazz/burly piece with some orientalist flava, but why call it belly/burly?

So, it's official belly dance is a term that can be used for any kind of movement that the mainstream would not recognize as dance. That wasn't belly dance, not even fusion. In the first two minutes the only belly dance movements are some Mayas (unless you also count the reverse plank some belly dancers use as well), then there a are couple of hip drops, some shimmies, head slides and chest circles and this is in a 5-minute long performance.

The few belly dance moves included are not even exclusive to belly dance. I have seen more belly dance moves in some jazz choreos that in the above clip.

I don't see the belly dance connection. Their website says something about tribal fusion belly dance in addition to all the other stuff they are pulling from, but I really don't see it. But I didn't watch the whole clip. I didn't mind it, I liked the music and they are gorgeous women who move well. But belly dance it's not. Why oh why do they have to call it belly dance?

Oh, right, because belly dance is just a set of movements that can be taken out of context and fused with anything and done to any kind of music and performed in any kind of costume. Silly me. I thought it was a dance with a cultural history and roots in the Middle East.

Tina...come on...tell me true....is this a mind expanding good feminine power thing to be encouraged? What does it do to "belly dance" as an art form? Has this horse been beaten to death before I got here? Am I a closed minded dinosaur? You may be the most qualified to answer this question...

ya now that i watched it i wouldn't call it bellydance or burlesque. fishnet stockings don't automatically make it burlesque. to *me* this was more inspired by say chicago than anything.

here's the deal; a few years ago everybody was putting the word *tribal* on everything. tribal towels, tribal bedding etc.

now it's burlesque. apparently every half nakid girly show has realized if they slap *bellydance*burlesque* on their promotion it opens more markets up.

frankly i thought i was boring ta boot. of course right now i think everything is boring. tina; jaded

Originally Posted by dunyah

I don't see the belly dance connection. Their website says something about tribal fusion belly dance in addition to all the other stuff they are pulling from, but I really don't see it. But I didn't watch the whole clip. I didn't mind it, I liked the music and they are gorgeous women who move well. But belly dance it's not. Why oh why do they have to call it belly dance?

Oh, right, because belly dance is just a set of movements that can be taken out of context and fused with anything and done to any kind of music and performed in any kind of costume. Silly me. I thought it was a dance with a cultural history and roots in the Middle East.

No argument from me, although I have read defenses from fusion artists that insist that because "belly dance" is not itself a culturally "correct" term, it's pretty much up for grabs. They point out that if they're not using terms like Raqs Sharqi or Oriental, we should all just Shut Up. More or less. :-)

Originally Posted by Taj

No argument from me, although I have read defenses from fusion artists that insist that because "belly dance" is not itself a culturally "correct" term, it's pretty much up for grabs. They point out that if they're not using terms like Raqs Sharqi or Oriental, we should all just Shut Up. More or less. :-)

yep that seems to be the pervasive argument. tina

This makes me a little ticked off. When I try to explain to others the history of bellydance, and what it is and is not, this type of mislableing makes it difficult. People don't understand my passion, which is why I turned to a network (bhuz) instead of my circle.

Ok, so this is a little off topic, but I must tell you of the time when I was in Barnes & Noble. I saw an interesting bellydance CD (can't remember the name), and I decided to listen to it. When I was reading the review, it started off like this: "Let's face it. Bellydance is considered cheesy, but this CD encompasses fantastic rhythms..." I was so hurt to read that. Bellydance is not cheesy. That was an ignorant and hurtful remark that "music reviewer" made. Arrgghh!

Originally Posted by tattood1

yep that seems to be the pervasive argument. tina

I think it's an excuse to co-opt the name for themselves. IMO, what is happening is people want to say they're belly dancers because they like the image that projects, but they don't want to put in the work it takes to become a belly dancer, or they don't actually like the music or the traditions. But they still like the name, so they decide to use it and their only defense is that belly dance is not the proper term anyway so I guess that means it's up for grabs.

Why don't they call themselves hoochie-coochie dancers? That's a made-up term that no one is using at the present.

Originally Posted by anala

There are somethings I wished I didnt know about. I am new to Bhuz and delighted with the knowledge base I have found here. The wit, the humor and the friendship. But it has opened my eyes to stuff I didnt know was even possible. Kinda like going into a porn store for the first time in 20 years and seeing stuff you will never be able to unsee....stuff like this.....w.:
YouTube - Slinky: The Nekyia's Belly Dance Burlesque
It has been watched almost 19,000 times in 6 months. I want to see Strip Ballet take over the dance world. Lets see ballarinas get some respect after that goes world wide. I can see it now...what form of dance are you studying, Susie? Oh...ballet...I see...;,r:; ..l;,

I think I saw this troupe on the Bellydance Underworld DVD. On that one, they were using fire and wearing metal bras that just barely covered their nipples.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

I think I saw this troupe on the Bellydance Underworld DVD. On that one, they were using fire and wearing metal bras that just barely covered their nipples.

Yes there was an item about them in the now defunct UK Tribal magazine and I spotted ....ooer bellydancers with metal pasties and thought mmm...yes well minimal is all the rage and there was Princess Banu's famous photo.
All looks very uncomfortable to me and I do value comfort these days...g.:

Not my style!

Can we form a dinosaur belly dance club? I think there are enough of us>

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I think it's an excuse to co-opt the name for themselves. IMO, what is happening is people want to say they're belly dancers because they like the image that projects, but they don't want to put in the work it takes to become a belly dancer, or they don't actually like the music or the traditions. But they still like the name, so they decide to use it and their only defense is that belly dance is not the proper term anyway so I guess that means it's up for grabs.

I understand where you're coming from, believe me. Problem is, what can we do about it, apart from grumbling among ourselves?

Why don't they call themselves hoochie-coochie dancers? That's a made-up term that no one is using at the present.

And more descriptive of what some of the stuff looks like to me. See also: Saloon dancing.

Cute but why call it bellydance? no middle eastern music and a only a few movements from the belly dance vocabulary. Seems a lot more like a Vegas show to me. I've seen a lot of this stuff around calling itself "tribal fusion". It's not, gosh darn it! Call it club dance or jazz or hoochie coochie or whatever but there must be at least some middle eastern-derived content to call it belly dance.

Lizajuk - I'll join your dinosaur bellydance club, lol!

Originally Posted by Taj

I understand where you're coming from, believe me. Problem is, what can we do about it, apart from grumbling among ourselves?

Same thing we do when whenever we encounter incorrect assumptions about the dance - educate, and don't be afraid to tell people, "NO, what you're doing is not belly dance, you are not a belly dancer."

For mercy's sake, is belly dance the dance world's answer to the old woman who lived in the shoe? Why are all bastard dance forms and hybridized crap-o-freak made up styles automatically the children of belly dance?

OK I propose we form the CAVE....the home of bellydance dinosaurs.
Retreat into the Club Against Very Extreme dance routines calling themselves bellydance

Can we form a dinosaur belly dance club? I think there are enough of us>
__________________
ooooooooooo good idea!
i sent this "clip" to a dancer in the uk, and a devotee of serenas in new york
same reply , "wtf".

i bd job hunted for the first time ever this year & everywhere i went i encountered negative attitudes about bd. even places that wanted to hire a bder i still needed to jump thru hoops to try to disprove the negatives. even when i got hired i felt they were still holding their noses. people DO think bd is cheesy, vulgar junk. now i'm cynical & i was surprised at the level of dislike. tina

I think it was a very interesting piece. Could easily have been a pseudo pussy cat dolls or other equivalent group. Many of the 'belly dance' moves which they used crossed over into jazz and modern, or at least enough that there could be confusion about it.

I think it made a nice jazzy - Fosse-esque number. belly dance? not so much.

{{{HUGS}}}

Sigh...

+1 on all the above.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I think it's an excuse to co-opt the name for themselves. IMO, what is happening is people want to say they're belly dancers because they like the image that projects, but they don't want to put in the work it takes to become a belly dancer, or they don't actually like the music or the traditions. But they still like the name, so they decide to use it and their only defense is that belly dance is not the proper term anyway so I guess that means it's up for grabs.

Why don't they call themselves hoochie-coochie dancers? That's a made-up term that no one is using at the present.

funny i am reading a book about the old traveling circus days and they describe the coochie dancers in the cooch tent i imagined dance moves like this .Not what i would call belly dance more like burlesque .

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

Same thing we do when whenever we encounter incorrect assumptions about the dance - educate, and don't be afraid to tell people, "NO, what you're doing is not belly dance, you are not a belly dancer."

For mercy's sake, is belly dance the dance world's answer to the old woman who lived in the shoe? Why are all bastard dance forms and hybridized crap-o-freak made up styles automatically the children of belly dance?

Look, this argument, or discussion, has been going on for some time. Saying: “Hey, that’s not belly dance!” isn’t going to cut it among people who are determined to use the label for their own crap-o-freak styles. They will simply come back with the rejoinder I noted above. ‘Cause they’re ARTISTS, y’know, and you’re just trying to stifle their artistic vision.

Which leaves us where? Begging? Picketing? Refusing to allow this stuff at our haflas? Forming a Belly Dance Anti-defamation League?

I don’t consider myself the arbiter of what “belly dance” is, especially since we use the term to refer to styles of Middle Eastern dance that are not raqs sharqi or beledi. Styles other than Egyptian get taught in “belly dance” classes all over the place. We’re all guilty, if that’s the word, of applying the label to everything from Meleya Luff to Raqs Assaya. Because it’s easy. Who here hasn’t started to explain that what they do is Raqs Sharqi, or <insert folkloric style name here>, been confronted with a blank look, and immediately added: “Otherwise known as belly dance!” to clear up the confusion?

I’ve also heard the argument that, if the correct term is raqs sharqi, or raks beledi, why don’t we use that and let the fusionistas have “belly dance”? I think the answer is: Because it’s not easy to do that. It involves taking time to explain it to people who, quite honestly, don’t give a flying f**k.

Yes, this style is all over youtube and can be seen at our local haflas - but is it in restaurants? hookah bars? private parties? Is this style commercial enough to be displacing traditional raks sharki/beledi/bellydance with the GP?

I live far from the coasts and there is still a strong bias towards the traditional here, as far as paying jobs.

I just don't see where this is belly dance, on any level, by any description. I've seen more belly dance moves in a hiphop video, or a Fosse routine, and those weren't any kind of 'fusion.'

Even if you let the term 'bellydance' be generic for dances that are primarily driven by torso movements, including tribal, goth, and Hawaiian styles... this STILL just isn't bellydance.

It's very nice....porn posing.... or something. The girls and their costumes are lovely & sexy. It would be great as a stylized bordello dance scene in a musical, for instance. It just isn't belly dance, and being associated with 'stylized bordello scene' dancing doesn't help us, I don't see how it helps them, just WHY????? attach the BD label at all?????

*sob*

*hands Lauren a tissue*

So do you think there are ballerinas all over the world logged onto releve.com in total outrage over the following... or is it just us???[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBj2M-xsvNs]YouTube - Sugar Plum Fairy Burlesque Ballet[/ame]

Originally Posted by Taj

*hands Lauren a tissue*

*sniffle* Thanks, Taj. *sniff*