Thread: Gestures: Favourites, Meanings, Offensiveness Quotient

This is all great fun!! - I heard that the Dina thing is placing your finger on the side of the nose comes from India and means that she is saying that she is virtuous (and would make a good wife). relates to a nose piercing.
the opposite - I have heard is a boucing of the inside of the wrist on the forhead - apparently signifying coins given to a dancer - and the sweat that she has worked up dancing will stick it to her forhead.
Was also told that these gestures can be flirtatiously alternated throughout a dance to keep you all wondering if she can ber bought or not!!

Originally Posted by Bellydancefanatic

Holding up your hair vertically is considered seductive. In Egypt, holding it up too long implies you want to have sexual relations, or something to that extent! I learned this from one of my dance instructors a long time ago. One of the first ones I learned. Not sure what it means in other cultures, but if it has to do with hair, most likely seductive.

To me it means 'damn it's hot in here, turn on the AC!" JK.

For "grinding fist into palm" - I learned it as "I'm jealous" or "I'm making you jealous".

I learned a new one in Egypt - Sorta - from a guy. He showed putting one hand onto the hip (thumb back, rest of hand around, sorta gripping the hip fat) and leaning back a bit and he said it means "what you want?". I never got a better explanation that that, but he seemed to think it was a very important gesture to know. Any clue what that meant?

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

I learned a new one in Egypt - Sorta - from a guy. He showed putting one hand onto the hip (thumb back, rest of hand around, sorta gripping the hip fat) and leaning back a bit and he said it means "what you want?". I never got a better explanation that that, but he seemed to think it was a very important gesture to know. Any clue what that meant?

More often with two hands, but maybe a lazy version with one hand in this position, can be an older-style accompaniment to that Arabic universal: "Kus ommuk!"

A very precise version is joining the two hands together at the thumb and forefingers, and moving the hands a bit on the hip. It looks like a silly way to cuss out someone, but...whatever.

Was what he taught you a threatening, "Whaddaya want??!!" It might be something completely different, but it sounds really similar.

I think what some of these gestures mean or don't mean depend on (like someone said before) facial expressions, and/or vocal accompaniment. I wouldn't be afraid to put my hands on my hips in general; but, I wouldn't want to lean back, start shaking them and yelling about the audience members' mothers, lest I be mistaken for an impolite person.

My personal favorite/favourite is the index finger "bull horns" on the head. I think it is universal around the Mediterranean, signifying cheating on a partner or something similar. However, in Egypt, it can definitely mean that the person you are directing it to is a "qawad", "mou3aris": y3ani, pimp ..g.: Tee hee.

Originally Posted by nitewindz

I never heard that about the A-Ok gesture - but that's good to know!
I've heard that the palms outward is rude.

There are many Shikhat gestures where you present your palms to the audience, many times to show off your henna designs or to stand in as a prop (a "mirror" you turn to your face and then away). I don't know if this is always rude, maybe just the way you do it and your attitude. I also learned several upper Egyptian moves that put the palms up and facing out.

Has anybody read either of these books? I've seen them on Amazon in the past and have been tempted by them, but haven't yet succumbed to either. Does anyone know whether either is any good?

• Amazon.com: Field Guide to Gestures: How to Identify and Interpret Virtually Every Gesture Known to Man: Nancy Armstrong,Melissa Wagner: Books
• Amazon.com: Gestures: The Do's and Taboos of Body Language Around the World: Roger E. Axtell: Books

Originally Posted by kamilia

that Arabic universal: "K** ommuk!"

Just want to throw in here, since this is a REALLY rude phrase, that we might want to "bleep" things like this for the sake of Arabic speakers on the board (since we do generally censor ourselves on English obscenities on the board). Sorry, don't mean to be a prude!

*bats lashes*

Would someone like to translate loosely? I'm guessing ommuk is "your mother"?

Originally Posted by zumarrad

*bats lashes*

Would someone like to translate loosely? I'm guessing ommuk is "your mother"?

It means "your mother's pu**y" (and like many obscene phrases in so many languages, it's kind of inexplicable...).

I really didn't mean to be a prude; I just had that sinking feeling in my stomach when I read the words...kind of like when you're watching a movie with parents or kids and...oh no...the sex scene!

However, I was thinking about this more as I was driving home today, and I came to the conclusion that I guess it is important for non-Arabic speakers, especially dancers, to be aware of these words (in case they are the target thereof...eek). But maybe such words and phrases could be discussed in a dedicated thread where there's a warning in the title (e.g. "Arabic obscenities you might want to know...WARNING: CONTAINS LANGUAGE THAT MAY BE OFFENSIVE TO SOME").

Just thinkin' out loud...and tryin' to keep it clean!

Thanks!! You are right - on the one hand Arabic speakers here may feel just as uncomfortable with that as they might with English swear words, but on the other, it's really, really helpful for those of us who don't speak Arabic to know this stuff.

I love knowing how to curse, or at least how to recognize curses, in other languages. As an adult education language teacher I think it is important to include them occasionally in curricula (again, I teach adults!). 'Bad' words have so much power to native or near-native speakers of a language, and are often so innocuous to second language learners. I think it is okay to let folks know what you would and would not say in front of Grandma!

Anyway, here are two sites I like to practice my Arabic curses. :)

GAY ARABIC (Not Safe For Work)
morticom foreign dirty words arabic

(Do I need to say you should not go to either site if you are offended by crass words for body parts and sex? Also, the first site does have photos of the occasional naked man, and both have obnoxious ads.)

One of my classmates in Arabic school in Cairo was named Niko. Yeah...he had a nickname--ha ha!--within hours. (It was 'Beebs', aka Pepsi, because he drank so damn much of it.)

Just my personal opinion: I always felt very annoyed when people would tell me that speak my language and to prove it, they would say a curse word. Nicely articulated, said it out loud, in my face with an enthusiastic smile - it was like a punch across my face (basically they were talking really badly about my mother, not realizing how extremely offinsive it is.It was not in their language so they didn't feel the "weight" of the words.)

I always feel that it you know a few words of a language, why would you want your knowldege to be represented by there agressive, horrible words that you shouldn't say to anyone? The first 5 words I always want to know is Hi - Bye - Thank You - Please - You're welcome. Isn't that more polite?

I do agree that we as dancers should know the meaning of obscene words, because we don't wnt to nod our heads and smile when someone calls us whores, etc. (that's part of the reason why I wanted to learn Arabic.) But I wouldn't want to include that in my curriculum. I would want nice, useful words and skills of meaningful conversations as my representation of teachings.

Please don't get upset, this is not aimed at anyone in particular. We all have different opinons, and we express them from time to time, so that's what I did.

Kamilia - you are probably right and maybe he was teaching me NOT to do that, maybe because he had seen other non-Egyptian bellydancers put their hands on their hips in that way and cause offense. Or maybe he just wanted to trip me up? Who can tell? he was an oddball, that one. He also told me that the bellydancer should throw perfume out into the crowd before she goes on. ? I am assuming there may have been some translation issues. I actually got a whole litany of "tips" from him (unsolicited), including that I should wax my arms.

Monica - that first website, WHOA! I had to satisfy my curiousity. It was like a journey into a different dimension. Well, I am thankful I did not mistakenly tell anyone that they have an a** like honey! That sure would have been a faux-pas.

Originally Posted by Marianna

It was not in their language so they didn't feel the "weight" of the words.)

Great point, Marianna! The power of taboo words definitely gets lost in translation. In my experience as a learner and a teacher, letting folks know what *not* to say in order to be polite/taken seriously/not be offensive is really important when teaching language (especially for immigrants who are living in a place where they need to use the language everyday, as opposed to purely recreational/international learners). It is a small part of a huge learning process, but most students want to know (again, in my experience).

Words have power, and knowledge can only serve to help us use that power wisely, or at least with some modicum of choice.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

Monica - that first website, WHOA! I had to satisfy my curiousity. It was like a journey into a different dimension. Well, I am thankful I did not mistakenly tell anyone that they have an a** like honey! That sure would have been a faux-pas.

Yeah, I was not kidding about the warning!

Cheers.

I know people who have deliberately taught non-English speakers the swears first, as a joke.

A friend of my mother's taught his cousin, just arrived here to say f you, telling him this was how you said escuse me.

A mistake you only make once.

to keep this on topic, yasmina of toronto taught that pinching the flesh of your hip (under your clothes) and shaking it rapidly, like shimmying it, was code for dancers to show they knew each other as dancers.

I'm a photographer. Would you like to pose naked ?

I know I say that ALL the time. HEE!

Surely it would be so easy to get it wrong! My friend lived in Turkey for a time and said men are so physically affectionate with each other there that if you were gay you might think you were getting lucky. Wrong!

Originally Posted by Marianna

Just my personal opinion: I always felt very annoyed when people would tell me that speak my language and to prove it, they would say a curse word.

I do agree that we as dancers should know the meaning of obscene words, because we don't wnt to nod our heads and smile when someone calls us whores, etc. (that's part of the reason why I wanted to learn Arabic.)

Nicely said. When I talk to a native speaker of one of the languages I can speak (French or German), I tend to say, "I studied French [or German] at the university." But I'm afraid that if I'm speaking to someone from Kenya, the only two words I know in their language are "toilet" and "no" - I don't know the nice pleasantries. That's what comes of learning what my brother chose to teach me...

Your second paragraph quoted above reminds me of a story. I once knew a student who performed at a dancer showcase with a live Arab band. She didn't yet have a dance name, so one jerk in the band said to her, "Oh, you don't have Arabic name yet? I give you one. I call you Sharmuta." She smiled brightly, thanked him, and let him introduce her as that. Imagine how upset she was later to learn that he had just named her "Whore."

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

Kamilia - you are probably right and maybe he was teaching me NOT to do that, maybe because he had seen other non-Egyptian bellydancers put their hands on their hips in that way and cause offense. Or maybe he just wanted to trip me up? Who can tell? he was an oddball, that one. He also told me that the bellydancer should throw perfume out into the crowd before she goes on. ? I am assuming there may have been some translation issues. I actually got a whole litany of "tips" from him (unsolicited), including that I should wax my arms.

Monica - that first website, WHOA! I had to satisfy my curiousity. It was like a journey into a different dimension. Well, I am thankful I did not mistakenly tell anyone that they have an a** like honey! That sure would have been a faux-pas.

I think you would really have to try to cause offense with it while dancing. You really have to lean back, get a grimace on your face, jiggle that fat and shout "Ya 3omr!" or whatever else comes to your mind (I don't know why a regular name like that is considered threatening to Egyptian males!)

This guy probably just wanted to see a foreigner do it. Whatever.

I think it can mean "What do you want?!" in an annoyed way, maybe when a beta or gamma male is invading alpha male territory. But to me, most instances just sound like "Screw you!"

And don't worry: I got advice from everyone to wax my arms, only I got gang Halawa-ed and threaded. Oh, the shame I brought on my fiance' 's family with my arm hair!

aloha


trying to add to the wealth of threads here...

simple note: beware of gesturing to the face /nose with the left hand when dancing khaleegy or gulfnoian dances.

the right 'clean' hand is for eating and drinking, and the left unclean hand is for...well, it involves wiping...

hence, if you were to lose a hand for committing theft, guess which one?

if you use you left hand with khaleegy, arabs WILL giggle among other things...

Shareen El-Safy told us in a recent workshop that the combined finger-snap with hand flick gesture means "sacred sex". Can anyone comment on this?

I once saw a great dancer gesture to the band to play more slowly by pinching her fingers together and pushing them up, up, up through the air, which I have since heard means "Wait" or "hold on aminute". But it was totally confusing to me, because in the US at least, gesturing upwards with a thumb or hand to a band or a sound man means "Louder, please!".

Another thing Shareen El-Safy told us was that the "A-OK" gesture means "I want to have sex with you" in Egypt. Ack!!

- Leela

What is the A ok gesture?

The first one you mentioned about the dancer and the band is correct. My husband always does this when we have a discussion. It usually means wait a second.

I have seen lots of great crude gestures in clubs that has Egyptians rolling around laughing. Not for workshops of course.