Thread: Where does the bellyroll & flutter come from?

Ha ha, I can do that! of course I would never dream of including it in performance, it looks so freaky.
When me and my brothers were little kids we discovered we all had unusually good abdominal muscle control, and practised tricks to make each other laugh.
I can also do a very impressive pregnant belly.
So no particular cultural influence in this for me, other than a mis-spent youth.

Interesting topic though, I hadn't given it much thought before.

Yeah, just to clarify, people in the west were wearing two piece "orientalist" outfits before Hollywood existed (some think this was inspired by Indian dancers' costumes), and you can see a sort of proto-bedleh in many North African/ME dancers' outfits with the little bolero and skirt. Only difference is they were wearing a shirt underneath. So no, Hollywood did not invent the bedleh, but yes, it was definitely a sort of western interpretation of eastern styles that was picked up by Badia et al as the suitable costume for their new elegant raqs sharqi, aimed at western and westernised audiences.

Originally Posted by aziyade

I was told the Stomach Dance was the origin of the belly roll, but my source was just repeating something she heard from somebody else who heard it from , etc.

Is there any video of the Ouled Nail "stomach dance" ? Or should I just look for videos by Fahtiem and Carolena ?

Aisha Ali's Dances of the Arab World video has an Ouled Nail piece.

Hi, I'm surprised nobody has specifically mentioned Morocco's article yet:

Welcome to Morocco's Meanderings

She describes belly rolls and flutters being used in ritual birthing in North Africa. Although somebody in this thread did mention the practice.

As for myself, I learned belly flutters from Suzy Tekbilek (the Turkish Wife of Omar Faruk). They were executed a little differently from the FatChance flutters I learned before, but they were definitely flutters.

They can sometimes seem to be a little circus side show to me (especially as done by yoga guy in the video), which is why I think you don't see them all the time in performances, but the roll and flutter definitely have roots in the Middle East, from North Africa all the way to Turkey and you do see them slipped into to the dancing here and there as many people mentioned, both by Turks and Arabs, etc.

Originally Posted by CFerhat

Aisha Ali's Dances of the Arab World video has an Ouled Nail piece.

DOH -- I have this dvd -- if this is her performance one? I need to get this back out apparently. For some reason I was disappointed in it once I got it. Maybe it had something to do with the costume and it hid her abdomen (?)

Thanks though. I'll check it out again :)

for what its worth, I watched Michael Palins "new europe" doco last night and while in Turkey he went along to Tanyella's (sp?) belly dance class and she taught him how to do a belly roll. she told him to lift his shirt so she could see what he was doing but she lost me at the sexy belly comment.

Originally Posted by Linnyg

Okay...that is just scary! I understand how impressive it is that he can control his abs like that but WHO would want to?

It's a cleansing/purification exercise in yoga that massages & stimulates & cleanses the organs. Mostly the abdominal organs, which are pressed up against the diaphragm, but also the organs of the chest as the diaphragm lifts.

It's both a massage for the organs and a 'squeeze and soak' technique, in which the tissues are 'wrung out' and then allowed to receive a fresh wash of circulation, nutrients, oxygen etc.

The practice is considered cleansing (errr... you can imagine...), beneficial to the organs, and encourages the flow of prana (life force).

So there really IS a reason!!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled bellydance discussion.

She describes belly rolls and flutters being used in ritual birthing in North Africa. Although somebody in this thread did mention the practice
*************** that would be me***************

Originally Posted by samsied

Thanks, I have been curious about the time line of this. I am not an expert, but my overall impression of everything I have heard and read about the bedlah is that the two-piece costume was associated with oriental dance before "Hollywood" had significant influence. And that "Hollywood" got this inspiration from a pre-existing image of the oriental dancer/woman (perhaps from some of the orientalist paintings and similar). Hollywood may have popularized the image, but it wouldn't have stuck if it wasn't such an effective costume for this style of dance (Badia and crew may have developed a different look if it didn't highlight the dance as well as look "glamorous"). I can agree the two-piece "belly dance" costume seems to be a "western" fantasy influence that spread to the Middle East.

I think the same, I think the two pice costume came before Hollywood made their theme of oriental fantasy. In fact, a well known ballet choreographer from Russia, Serge Diaghilev made it big in Paris in 1910 when he presented the oriental story of Scheherazade. A costume designer named Leon Bakst made the costumes for this show. All of Bakst work had great influence on the fashion designers in Europe at the time.
The star of the show was Ida Rubenstein, a ballerina who would most likely be a belly dancer if she had lived in our times. She was very eager to dance in the orientalist theme, such as Salome (1908?), Cleopatra (1908) and Scheherazade (1910).

Hans Zatka an orientalist painter is believed to have painted "the harem dancer" in ca 1890. Of course the dancer is topless but this painting has the nakedness of what some people connect with oriental dance. If she only had a bra on she would be wearing a bedlah. Her skirt is quite nice actually.

In my opinion the orientalist painters were just a bunch of momy´s boys who grew up in the victorian era, longing for some juicy exotic dreams.

As for the flutters and bellyrolls, I dont have any answers but I enjoy reading the posts.

Originally Posted by fikriyyah

I've been to numerous workshops taught by Artemis Mourat who says that Turkish Belly Dancers do belly rolls.

agreed

Originally Posted by *Shira*

American Classic dancers got rolls and flutters from Turkish and Armenian dancers.

I'm Armenian and I have never seen either being done during an Armenian dance. Do you have more informaion about this? I am very currious as to what dance/music this is done to!

Side-to-side stomach rolls come from the yoga activity known as nauli kriya. If you've never seen a side-to-side stomach roll, watch this video demonstration of nauli kriya, in the second half:

I think I dislocated my jaw from it dropping so far. WOWZA!

Originally Posted by Mikky

I'm Armenian and I have never seen either being done during an Armenian dance. Do you have more informaion about this? I am very currious as to what dance/music this is done to!

The Armenians that I saw doing it were doing so in conjunction with belly dance. I'm guessing they came from a part of Armenia that was near Turkey and were basically doing Turkish style of belly dance.

I agree, I've never seen belly rolls used in any of the Armenian folk dances that I've learned.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

The Armenians that I saw doing it were doing so in conjunction with belly dance. I'm guessing they came from a part of Armenia that was near Turkey and were basically doing Turkish style of belly dance.

I agree, I've never seen belly rolls used in any of the Armenian folk dances that I've learned.

AH! Armenian's doing Turkish dances.... makes much more sense. Thanks!!

Originally Posted by zamora

they were done by mid wives.the "mom" is in the center of the tent, the ground is a bit lower, there usually was a rope for her to bear down on.the mid wives were showing her what to do.
we use belly rolls/flutters w/drum solo, taxim, veil.

This is what I have heard as their origins.

Lisa

I just remembered all about that, the "giving birth" dance, the undulations make the pain go like a wave through the body instead of the woman battling with it. It was something like the women coming together and helping a woman give birth. I remember first hearing of this in an arabian comunity i was connected to through friends as a child.

Curiosity killed the cat....blecccch!