Thread: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

When I refer to a 4/4 walking shimmy I mean the hips are moving evenly. In other words they are moving up up for every beat of the music and you are walking with it. It's much harder to do than the 3/4 shimmy.

And, yes, I agree the 3/4 shimmy can be done in 3/4 waltz time or 4/4 time. That's because the "da da da" of the shimmy happens for every beat of the measure.

Originally Posted by mahsati

I am a nut about teaching everything weighted, unweighted, and evenly weighted, so this may be a little overkill to some folks. ;)

I agree with you re understanding where your weight is located because it makes things a lot more clear - especially in a discussion like this!

Originally Posted by mahsati

Ahh! I see how yours are determined - For me, for something to be a 3/4 requires that it be musically 3 out of 4, so my 3/4s all have that hold in them. The continuous RLRLRL without a hold I teach as something else. It can be done continuous or in variable length groups, but does not have a hold/pause.

It is something like the difference between a music triplet and the zill pattern triples. A musical triplet is 3 notes even spread over the beat, but the zill patter triples is more of what I consider a 3/4 because you can hear the hold between sets

I'm with you on this one! I never call the triple zill pattern a "triplet" precisely because a triplet is 3 notes evenly spread over the beat. I call that common patter a triple or a gallop which is more accurate to the sound pattern you hear when it's played.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

They do use 3/4 shimmy in Lebanese style, usually layered over a "Basic Arabic" or "Forward and Back" step. Often the 3/4 shimmy is done only during the forward part of the step, with the back being a single hip accent.

YES! I do remember seeing that. I forgot about it because it was only half. In my mind I never associated it with the the Egyptian version. But you're absolutely right. I'll have to ask Arty if there is a Turkish version.

Originally Posted by mahsati

Ahh! I see how yours are determined - For me, for something to be a 3/4 requires that it be musically 3 out of 4, so my 3/4s all have that hold in them. The continuous RLRLRL without a hold I teach as something else.

Ah, that makes sense, too! At the risk of opening up a dimensional rift, can I ask what you call the continuous triplet-style shimmies without a hold?

Originally Posted by Ainsley

Ah, that makes sense, too! At the risk of opening up a dimensional rift, can I ask what you call the continuous triplet-style shimmies without a hold?

Of course! Dimensional rift or not ;) If it is in even 4/4 time, (RLRLRLRL), I call it a 4/4 even-time shimmy. My short-hand for any shimmy that is continuous with no pauses or syncopation is "even-timed" because I use it as even emphasis and time on each hip. In a 3 or other number based time, I will call it an even 3, even 9, etc. Hope this helps a little - I love these discussions where we get to see how everyone thinks of this technical stuff!

Ok..my turn. Shimmy either up or down or out (doesnt matter)...on the triplet = 3/4 shimmy. In this move there is a hold (pause) and a weight shift (on the 4) to begin the triplet again on the other side. You can see the distinctive 1,2,3 hold count on the hips during travel.

However...if the feet maintain a continious 1,2-1,2-1,2 with no hold, yet the soft tissue of the relaxed gluts swing into a triplet "twitch" due to the very rapid triplet type "tremor" of the weighted quad and the 1,2,3 is blured into a rapid walking shimmy that looks 1,2 1,2 1,2 ...wadda ya call that???

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

This thread makes my head hurt.

Me too!

bumping the question on post 67.

ahhh...come on somebody talk to me....see above...

Originally Posted by anala

ahhh...come on somebody talk to me....see above...

Anala- I'll bite. Despite the headache.
For ME...what I call it...because it's obvious we all have out own little lexicons in our heads...
the 3/4 one is the one with the pause in the timing. The numbers are a meter reference.
The even one, if it is what you see Mona Said do, Shoo Shoo Amin and lots of other Egyptian dancers do- THAT would be the double hip walk that Yasmin refers to in the very first post of the thread. Easiest to see in the double up and what it seems many Egyptians do as a default travel move. Souheir Zaki was an exception, she most often seems to do it in a double down or double up and over.

This is where I started with 3/4 and 4/4 shimmies (Kawakib was my first instructor):
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIod5o769kE]YouTube - Kawakib's Shimmy Technique[/ame]

wow...thanks...going to work that out this weekend!!!! She is good...very clear!

I like her explanation, and I may change the terminology I use, as it seems that the prevailing terminology is different. I'd hate to cause confusion when my students go on to take from different teachers!

So, I'm thinking that the "even" shimmy I talked about as being my default, could be called a "walking shimmy", whereas the 3/4 shimmy as most of you understand it has some emphasis on the unweighted hip.

Right? Please say I'm right, because my head's going to explode.

That's not how Zahra teaches a 4/4 shimmy. There's a hip accent on each beat (step/Hip R, L Hip, R Hip, R Hip). Feet are stepping quarter time and hips are full time.

I think what Anala was describing is a basic shimmy walk, which is what I learned as the second in the above clip.

ETA the 3/4 shimmy (Kawakib does "basic" above) has a hold on one of the four beats, and the emphasis is the difference between basic, hagalla, and ghawazee. If your unweighted hip is straight down on the third count it's basic, if the hip is twisting in front of you it's hagalla, and if it's up it's ghawazee.

GO Kawakib.

That's exactly what I teach, only I call the second one a 'double bump' (for obvious reasons) or 'walking shimmy.'

Help me some more oh great oracles of Bhuz...

ok..so..now, what if your 3/4 begins on 1 with a step onto the right foot and right hip goes up and to the side (out) and on 2 the unwieghted left hip goes up and on 3 the same unweighted left hip goes down and 4 is suspended and on the next 1 the left foot takes the weight and the cycle begins again? The only difference being in what I just described by jumping up and down from the keyboard for the last 10 minutes, and the clip above, is the weight placement in the clip(footfall) seems to be on 3 not 1. Is it still a 3/4, does it have a different name...does it make for a different look when done rapidly enough, or is it just plain incorrect teaching that may have ingrained that way of steping into my body? Tell me if I need to retrain before I pass this on. It just seems much easier to correctly hammer a 1 count with a firm foot placement rather than a dangling unwieghted hip.

It took me 4 reads to understand what you are asking. My head hurts! Are you not describing what Khawakib does in the second half of the clip?

Originally Posted by nasila

That's not how Zahra teaches a 4/4 shimmy. There's a hip accent on each beat (step/Hip R, L Hip, R Hip, R Hip). Feet are stepping quarter time and hips are full time.

Yeah, that's what I call a walking 4/4 shimmy too.

The 4/4 shimmy in the video is more like a double hip bump to me.

I would also add that I like feet to be closer together for either shimmy and eliminate the body bouncing up and down. The shimmy needs to be kept below the waist (especially with the un-weighted 3/4 shimmy that is demonstrated in the video).

It took me 4 reads to understand what you are asking. My head hurts! Are you not describing what Khawakib does in the second half of the clip?

So sorry.. Nasila it took me a long time to write it!!! But I wanted to be very precise in my question, as I thought I was steping on a different count than Kawakib was demonstrating. I went back and reviewed again this AM after reading your post...so sorry again for the headache...and I actually was descriping the first shimmy in her clip (3/4) and her count is the same as mine - with footfall (weight shift) on the 1 count of 1,2,3,hold 4.

I feel so much better now....***sends Nasila 2 asprin***

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

BUT, I learned 3/4 shimmies as having different timing from double hip shimmies. With the 3/4 being a music meter reference. Instead of trying to explain the timing- I'll let this girl, because she verbally explains quite clearly the difference that I learned as far as the timing.
YouTube - Vlog #4a - 3/4 Shimmy Variations (Hip Bump, Lift, & Drop)

I haven't been called a "girl" in a long time!!!!!!!! ..l;, (thanks for not criticising my lazy drum technique, btw .w.: )

As I say and demonstrate in the video, using either triplets or semi-quavers plus a pause is FINE. However, my personal preference is to use triplets because I like the way it feels. ..g.:

It IS annoying that we don't have standard terminology - makes it difficult to communicate. ,f:: Thank goodness for YouTube!

I was just watching Raqia Hassan's Technique video vol. 7, and I thought of this forum. If you have this DVD, the very first thing she explains is the Haggallah walk, and demonstrates. I found it really helpful. Raqia describes it as "hip up and out." One hip goes up and then out, then the other goes up and out, creating a hopping movement with the legs. She describes the same form of the Haggallah walk, but describes as the one with the twist. She describes that as "twist, up, and out." You twist to one side, the hip goes up, and pushes out. The same with the other, creating a twisting Haggallah walk. So I'm guessing the appropriate term is "the Haggallah walk."

I wasn't made to be a teacher, so I hope that made sense! Hope that helps with some of the confusion, though I'm a little late.

Anyone have this DVD?