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Thread: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?




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    Established BHUZzer Serpentine's Avatar
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    3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    I am writing the liner notes for my next CD (drum solos) and I wanted to use the term that everyone is familiar with ... but there's no standard word. Or is there? What do you call the basic Egyptian double-hipped walk?
    Yasmin


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    Mega BHUZzer ruta21030's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    i've always known it as hagallah.............


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    Ultimate BHUZzer bintbeled's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Learned it first as Ghawazee walk, then every time I encountered it, terminology was 3/4 shimmy. Hagalla is a variation, right?


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    Established BHUZzer Serpentine's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by bintbeled View Post
    Learned it first as Ghawazee walk, then every time I encountered it, terminology was 3/4 shimmy. Hagalla is a variation, right?
    This is why I'm asking......g.:


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    Master BHUZzer aziyade's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    "3/4 shimmy" makes a definite visual picture for me of the hip going "up and up" on one side, then "up and up" on the other. (Or down-out-up, or up-down-up, or whatever.)

    "Hagallah" --for me -- is a kind of 3/4 shimmy, but with a twist forward and an emphasis on "down and down" instead of up and up. That's my mental picture, anyway.

    "Double Hip walk" sounds more like it would look like a step and THEN two hip lifts. Also sounds kind of vague.

    I think most of the newer instructional dvds are calling it 3/4 shimmy. I think if you DON'T know this term, you can easily find it on the internet, on Shira, or on tribe. There isn't a HUGE amount of debate over how to do the 3/4 shimmy is there? Other than variations on what the hip is doing -- down-out-up, or up-down-up, or down-up-down ...

    Is this actually a term Tribal and "cabaret" dancers both recognize?! Who'd have thunk it!


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    Ultimate BHUZzer ssipes's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    I think 3/4 shimmy would be the most recognized term even though there are many different variations of 3/4 shimmies.


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    Master BHUZzer Michelle75's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    I learned the double hip walk as the "walking shimmy" it's one of my favorites.


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    Official BHUZzer perizaad's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Now I'm curious... Is this one of those cases where people call the same step by different names, or different steps by the same name?!?

    I learned hagala as a variation of a 3/4 walking shimmy where instead of the hips moving up/down, the first movement is a hip slide, followed by an up down. More specifically:
    - step R, hip slide R (count 1)
    - L hip up, down (count 2,3)
    - step L, hip slide L (1)
    - R hip up, down (2,3)


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    Mega BHUZzer ruta21030's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    hm, i've always known 3/4 more a fast 'up/down/up', and the hagallah as an 'up/up' of each hip.....ghawazee more as a double 'pull up', or contraction, kind of like the reverse of sohair zaki's cool drop, am i explaining that right? i'm hurting my own head :p


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    Mega BHUZzer Linnyg's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by perizaad View Post
    Now I'm curious... Is this one of those cases where people call the same step by different names, or different steps by the same name?!?

    I learned hagala as a variation of a 3/4 walking shimmy where instead of the hips moving up/down, the first movement is a hip slide, followed by an up down. More specifically:
    - step R, hip slide R (count 1)
    - L hip up, down (count 2,3)
    - step L, hip slide L (1)
    - R hip up, down (2,3)
    This is how I learned it as well.


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    Mega BHUZzer mahsati's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    My 3/4 is any variation where the hips move in 3s (ex: RLR LRL) and can be done with emphasis on the up or down. Variations of this include what I call the Ghawazee 3/4 (ex: out/up/down or up/down/out) and the Hagallah 3/4 ex: (R over-down/L down/R down).

    I am not sure what a double hip walk is...I do teach a 2/4 ish move where each hip is articulated twice (ex: RR, LL, RR, LL)

    Are we helping or muddying the waters even more?

    :)


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    Advanced BHUZzer rakkasah_barbara's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    The Hagala step you're describing is known to me as an Egyptian walk. I've learned the same step but than with a pause after the down and that was called Ghawazee. And then you have the variation where you combine it with a twisting motion of the hips, known to me as the Brazilian walk..

    B

    Quote Originally Posted by perizaad View Post
    Now I'm curious... Is this one of those cases where people call the same step by different names, or different steps by the same name?!?

    I learned hagala as a variation of a 3/4 walking shimmy where instead of the hips moving up/down, the first movement is a hip slide, followed by an up down. More specifically:
    - step R, hip slide R (count 1)
    - L hip up, down (count 2,3)
    - step L, hip slide L (1)
    - R hip up, down (2,3)


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    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Zumarrad's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    I have no idea what a "Basic Egyptian double hipped walk" might be. If it's literally a double hipped walk, then it's a double hip rock walk. If it's a 3/4 shimmy, which seems to my understanding to have three distinct movements per hip (up down out, or down out up), so no double anything, unless you're doing it with a twist and really thinking more about down up down on the weighted leg (but what of the weight shift?) then it's a 3/4 shimmy, some variation thereof.


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    tamrahennatx
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    This thread makes my head hurt.
    philoclea likes this.


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    Established BHUZzer Serpentine's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by tamrahennatx View Post
    This thread makes my head hurt.
    But now you see why I asked the question. Maybe one day we will all get together and codify belly dance the way ballet has been broken down. Then a plier is a plier and everyone knows what you're talking about.

    Thank you for all your help. This is precisely the discussion I was hoping to start. Sorry to give you a headache though. I guess misery loves company.....cr.:


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    Ultimate BHUZzer tahiradancer's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    haggalah was taught to me as 3/4 down
    Ghawazzi 3/4 up
    double hip? No idea!

    {{{HUGS}}}

    Oh wait!

    Double hip would be out to one side, center, and out to the side again. No lift!

    {{{HUGS}}}


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    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Zumarrad's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    A plier? Is belly dancing engineering now?


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    Master BHUZzer nasila's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Zahra always called "hagalla" what Jenna calls 3/4 shimmy, but Tamra-henna but said the difference is in the emphasis.

    3/4 Shimmy is straight (hips squared to the center) with the emphasis/pause on the down.

    Hagalla is twisted (hips are moving along both plains - up and to the front).

    Ghawazee is the opposite of haggala in that the accent (pause) is on the UP rather than the down.

    And, double-hip sounds like what Zahra calls 4/4 Shimmy (with no 'down' or 'up' or 'twist' just a hit-hit L, hit-hit R).


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    tamrahennatx
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    But now you see why I asked the question. Maybe one day we will all get together and codify belly dance the way ballet has been broken down. Then a plier is a plier and everyone knows what you're talking about.

    Thank you for all your help. This is precisely the discussion I was hoping to start. Sorry to give you a headache though. I guess misery loves company.....cr.:
    LOL, I get a headache trying to picture all the different variations of attempting to put into words what is usually so obvious when demonstrated.

    It's like when I write out choreography - I get so bogged down in the particulars of the mechanics of the movements that I drive myself nuts.


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    tamrahennatx
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by tahiradancer View Post
    haggalah was taught to me as 3/4 down
    Ghawazzi 3/4 up
    double hip? No idea!

    {{{HUGS}}}

    Oh wait!

    Double hip would be out to one side, center, and out to the side again. No lift!

    {{{HUGS}}}
    Actually, the way I teach a 3/4 shimmy I also call it a double hip bump when brought up to speed. I find that when I teach each individual hip movement - Up, down, up - shift the weight - up, down, up - it can result in too much articulation of the hip, when what I want is a relaxed movement which evolves very naturally from shifting the weight as you walk. But the up, down, up has to be demonstrated, so I start there, slowly, and then as I bring it up to speed, I only emphasize the UPs, which feels more like a double hip bump.

    Have I muddied the waters any further?


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    Established BHUZzer clueless23de's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by zumarrad View Post
    I have no idea what a "Basic Egyptian double hipped walk" might be. If it's literally a double hipped walk, then it's a double hip rock walk. If it's a 3/4 shimmy, which seems to my understanding to have three distinct movements per hip (up down out, or down out up), so no double anything, unless you're doing it with a twist and really thinking more about down up down on the weighted leg (but what of the weight shift?) then it's a 3/4 shimmy, some variation thereof.
    This "Basic Egyptian double hip walk" sounds suspiciously like a chasse walking forward and just putting an emphasis on the hip. (Feet: RLR Hip:RR Feet: LRL Hip: LL)

    Mahsati: I agree 100%. You are so much more clear and concise than I could be. I'm more of a "Let me show you" gal!

    TH: This is enough to make everyone's head hurt! A GREAT reason to have a common standard dance terminology.


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    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Lauren_'s Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    OK, my .02 worth.

    I first learned the double-bump walk (the one THTX described so nicely) as a 3/4 shimmy, and I still sometimes revert to that terminology.

    But Yousry Sharif has drilled into me that it is not really a 3/4 shimmy. In his terminology, a 3/4 has that clear slide -up-down movement described earlier in this thread. Accent can be on the slide (he calls this the 3/4 shimmy 'out') or on the lift (3/4 shimmy 'up') or on the down (3/4 shimmy 'down'). The latter, down 3/4 shimmy is the one I've been taught as a 'haggalah'

    So even though I sometimes use the term 3/4 shimmy to mean my default, double bump shimmy, I don't think of that terminology as 'correct' any more.

    I think of them as:
    double bump, or simply walking shimmy
    3/4 shimmy out, up, or down
    hagalla shimmy= another name for the 3/4 down.

    I haven't been taught a ghawazee shimmy, but when I watch ghawazee dancers it always looks to me like they're doing a twistier shimmy??????


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    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. anala's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    What if somebody who has an idea that they can clearly demonstrate these variables (aint me, babe) post the lesson on youtube and link to it here. Do two angles, front and side. That would be a real service to humanity!


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    Advanced BHUZzer Bellydancefanatic's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle75 View Post
    I learned the double hip walk as the "walking shimmy" it's one of my favorites.
    Same with me. Faten describes it as step on one foot, three hip drops down, step on the other foot, and three hip drops down. So when done fast, it looks like a shimmy. It can be twist forward, which actually makes it a bit easier.


    In response to other posts:

    I think the 3/4 shimmy is a variation of the haggalah walk, right?

    Confused.....c:: ..l;,

    Please correct me if I'm wrong!
    Last edited by Bellydancefanatic; 03-04-2008 at 11:34 PM. Reason: add info


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    Mega BHUZzer Aradia's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    I teach the same as Tahiradancer and Nasila,

    3/4 down with a twist to the front, kind of a roll forward and down with the hip as you step down on it is Hagalla

    3/4 up, sometimes with a bouncy twist slightly up and back, Ghawazee

    3/4 with front foot flat, back foot on toe, emphasis on the down flat foot is a Sameha

    3/4 are just up/down/up or down/up/down with no accent

    I learned an African walk when I was a kid that had a 3/4 in it but it was an accent to the back, so I don't think that's the double bump!..c::


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    Mega BHUZzer Bellydancingcaroline's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    In the UK most people don't know what the 3/4 shimmy is (I think it's an American term) - they have been taught this as 'The Egyptian Walk' (UK Term). In Egypt, I find they don't know either terms, and call it the Hagella. It seems that Hagella should win out, since it makes no difference to us, and it could save lots of confusion if students should venture to Egypt, or to an Egyptian teacher. The language barriers are bad enough already without this spanner/wrench thing going on.


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    I could get used to this! fayzah's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    I agree with Caroline about the terms of 3/4 shimmy being different between countries, I learned both from different teachers but never really understood it was the same thing until 3-4 years ago. I explain the 3/4 like this. (R) up-down-out, (L) up-down-out. The same leg/hip does three different things until you change leg and step.
    I´ve always been under the impression of hagala being "up and over", emphasizing on down with front hip.

    This is the cutest video... Osama Emam with the swedish group Nefertari. Here you can see the hagala movement but the skirts that they are wearing makes it look like one relly big move so you cant really see the distinction im talking about except in a few dancers. This choreo is so fast and therefore it must be hard to execute the tecnique, there is always a chance of it not looking "clean".

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJefkTpNZdU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJefkTpNZdU[/ame]
    Last edited by fayzah; 03-05-2008 at 04:04 AM.


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    Advanced BHUZzer Safiyah's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by nasila View Post
    3/4 Shimmy is straight (hips squared to the center) with the emphasis/pause on the down.

    Hagalla is twisted (hips are moving along both plains - up and to the front).

    Ghawazee is the opposite of haggala in that the accent (pause) is on the UP rather than the down.
    This is what I learned, as well. Nailing down terminoligy is really tough since there are so many variations, languages, etc. involved. It would be nice to be able to say "3/4 shimmy" and have everyone know what it is!


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    Ultimate BHUZzer *Shira*'s Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Jamila Salimpour used the term 3/4 shimmy, so I'd expect that's the term all the tribal-style variations of dancers would know. She taught several variations - the up-down-up version, the down-up-down version, the pigeon-toed version (which accomplishes the twist people associate with hagalla), going forward with it, going backward with it, traveling sideways with it, doing it in place, down-out-up, etc.


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    Master BHUZzer aziyade's Avatar
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    Re: 3/4 Shimmy, Hagala, Double Hip walk ... What do YOU call it?

    Are any of these variations what Hossam Ramzy calls the "hip swerve" ??

    I've been trying to figure that one out for years.


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