Thread: illinois haflas system sucks

it is either a hafla is not listed until it is full up or is isn't listed and u find out about it second hand. again with it begining full. u ask where to join up to find out about more or certain haflas and even after u do; u still never hear about them. i am sorry but it is starting to seem like a biased clique and i am not the only one fed up. it is also never clear who u contact or how u contact someone to get on the list, which is full 99.9% of the time. getting to the point i feel like giving up dancing due to no opportunities in general and for the few there are, read above.,m::

Start your own hafla

i would if i had any money. that idea had crossed my mind, but with less than 600 a month. yeah right. not trying to be a *itch

It doesn't really cost anything.

Sounds like there is the demand for more thn one system so sound out friends and other dancers for a time and venue. Make sure every dancer pays enough to collectively cover your costs:hire and publicity and no it may cost you nothing. You might even make a little money if you get it right but it is demanding so be prepared.

yep, nobody owns you a performance opportunity. if you need more, look for them, create, and then do it differently yourself, share, do it with others.

there's no point grumbling about the community you are in if you dont try to do something about it. your local bellydance community is not "others", it's what you put into it, it's what you and your friends make of it.

it's what i started doing and it WORKS. the last two years i've created several new events, and well, i never thought i could and i can.

From an organizer's perspective I can tell you that there are always far more dancers interested in performing than there ever are slots available...and the ratio of available soloists to troupes is probably 5:1! To make a good show you ideally want a nice variety of soloists and troupes, students and pros, different styles and props. I started organizing haflas and other shows because I wanted to reciprocate the hospitality of those who had given me and my students opportunities to perform. Not everyone needs to become an organizer but there are some points to consider to think "big picture" for any dancer.

Relationships are what make a community strong--it's not about being biased or a clique to go to those people first that you enjoy working with and know you can count on.

* Don't wait to be contacted, find out who the organizers are in your area and be proactive. Get on mailing lists and stay in contact.
* A great way to start cultivating relationships is to offer to help at events. I have nothing but love for my helper habibis! Extra hands for setup/takedown or errands before a show are a godsend. I perform but I also help out at other people's shows when they need an announcer, stage manager, even extra hands to be a ticket and program passer-outer!

When you do get a slot:
* Be on time, be prepared and do your best--when someone is still rifling through CDs in the dressing room right before showtime and then does a half-a**ed sloppy improv it does not convey the message that being in the show mattered to them at all.
* Make an effort to help promote the event and bring people
* Be a good audience member when you're not performing!
* Don't be "that girl" that always leaves the second after she's done dancing--gatherings are great networking opportunities!

~~Kimahri

Doesn't the Chicagoland area have the monthly Sphinx haflas? I imagine there's a waiting list, but I'd contact the person ASAP when you know you want to be a part of it. I forget who's in charge of it, but I thought that was well-advertised. If you're very proactive about it and are interested, I'd contact Mae (she's listed on Arabesque of Chicago's website), because I believe she hosted a Gothla last year. Karen, who teaches at Pineapple, hosted one as well this past year. Not sure if that's your thing, but I imagine they may be happening during October.

If I were you and don't want to have your own hafla (I'm not sure how cheap it is to do one), I'd contact all the major teachers in the area. They usually have a good feel for what's going to happen, event-wise. I don't know how new you are to area, but there is a lot of advice on how to break into a dance scene. One of my teachers in Chicago told me that she did a lot of networking. Showed up to people's classes, let them know she wanted to dance, etc.

I haven't danced a hafla or gotten the chance to perform (too busy with school and life) here, but another idea is participate in a class if you want to perform. Not necessarily soloist opportunity, but the studios around here do have recitals.

I assume you're talking about the Chicago area? I wish people would say Chicagoland when that's what they mean.

It's a pet peeve of mine when Chicago peeps think the rest of the state is some kind of black hole or suburb.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I assume you're talking about the Chicago area? I wish people would say Chicagoland when that's what they mean.

It's a pet peeve of mine when Chicago peeps think the rest of the state is some kind of black hole or suburb.

Yep, and there's plenty of city peeps that get annoyed when any and all things 'burbs get lumped into the general "Chicago" area!

~~Kimahri

It's strange to me that you would say that Ayoubgrl. I've seen you perform a number of times. I have also known that you were on a few line ups where you didn't end up performing for whatever reason. I would be careful in putting down the organizers of the events in our area. It's not an easy task to take on. There are more dancers than there are spaces for. I'm not sure how many opportunities are going to open up for you now that you've stated the current ones "suck" and called the producers and participants a"biased clique". But if you are truly unhappy with the current way things are run, I agree with the above posters.. start your own.

kimahri, i would agree with you that organising is not the answer for everyone. for me it was the right time in my carreer also to start doing so.

the other important element in getting performance ops are indeed
- networking
- being generally EASY to work with

when choosing performers for my events, yes, i want GOOD dancers, but i also tend to gravitate towards people that i know will not be pain in the b**t, show up on time, BRING PEOPLE!

the latter is sometimes difficult to get into people's heads. everyone wants to perform. but if they dont help bringing in audience, well, the performers will end up having each other for audience and not much else :-) and the organiser wont be organising the event many times cause they will be loosing money

so another way to get gigs: go to these hafla's even when you are NOT performing. support the local events. dont grumble. show up! and people will notice you...

oh, and patience. i find that a hard one too :-)

Hmmm. Ayoubgirl, I don't know you at all, so I don't know if any of this is relevant to your situation. But it's relevant to the topic we're discussing, so I'll go ahead and post it here and hope you won't read it personally.

Some ways to ensure that you're included when dance spots are handed out

1. Proactively watch local boards and websites for announcements and contact the organizers right away.
2. Don't make the mistake of *only* being friendly to event organizers when you want something from them. Reach out to them at other times, attend their student recitals, call them up to compliment them on a new web design (if you genuinely like it), come to their restaurant shows, etc.
3. Be a pro. If you commit to dance in a show, you dance in that show. I've done it with broken toes, I've turned down paying gigs to dance at a hafla. A commitment is a commitment, and the show must go on. Don't leave the organizer with a hole.
4. Support your local community. Attend events even if you're not performing at them and support the students with lots of smiling and cheering (it's fun!). If you are dancing at an event, stay for the whole evening, in the audience, and watch the other performers. Stay after and help put up chairs or help sweep up glitter in the dressing room. IOW, make it clear you think of yourself as part of the community rather than some diva who swoops in expecting others to do all the work and be her audience.
5. Don't talk bad about your community organizers. Not on Bhuz and not within your community. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Hopefully a dancer actually enjoys being part of her community and all of the above are actually fun things to do. Then the whole thing is authentic, social, and a great time. That's how it is for me, anyway.

Otherwise, all of the above would just be a$$kissing, and I'm not sure I'd want to do that just for a hafla dance slot. But life really is an even energy exchange most of the time, and if you want something from people (to provide you with performance opps, to stay in their seats and pay attention while you perform) then you have to look at what you have to offer back. Kindness, friendliness and return support seem reasonable.

Again, I'm not assuming you, Ayoubgirl, have done it any differently I only bring it up because it's relevant to the topic.

great summary lauren!

Originally Posted by Kimahri

Yep, and there's plenty of city peeps that get annoyed when any and all things 'burbs get lumped into the general "Chicago" area!

~~Kimahri

Really? On a worldwide board with an international audience? They need to get over it.

I refer to myself as being from the St. Louis Area even though I live in a different state and The Lou doesn't even claim me. When I was in Cairo people there hadn't heard of St. Louis, I had to say 'near Chicago.' I can't imagine bristling and drawing maps of my region for people because they don't know where the Metro-East suburbs are, or Belleville, Illinois. Sheesh.

I can see being more specific in local media, though.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Really? On a worldwide board with an international audience? They need to get over it.

I refer to myself as being from the St. Louis Area even though I live in a different state and The Lou doesn't even claim me. When I was in Cairo people there hadn't heard of St. Louis, I had to say 'near Chicago.' I can't imagine bristling and drawing maps of my region for people because they don't know where the Metro-East suburbs are, or Belleville, Illinois. Sheesh.

I can see being more specific in local media, though.

I'm with Kimhari on this one. I guess because I actually live in the city. I meet people who way they are born and raised in Chicago and when I ask what side of town, they say some suburb. Well I think they should say Chicago-Land or Area. They are not from Chicago proper.
Lol

Lauren's Advice is good Ayoubgirl.
My teacher isn't very connected to the community so when I decided I wanted to get more involved, I simply started going to haflas and workshops and restaurants. I was just friendly and there. Then I asked to dance at a hafla that was just starting, I think I learned about it on Meet-Up. After that I met more and more dancers and I make it a point to go to as many events as I can. Sometimes I ask to dance and the list is full. I don't take it personally.

Eventually I put on my own hafla and it didn't actually cost me anything. I made fliers at the studio, I asked friends and family to volunteer. I asked dancers I knew already to dance and asked my students to invite their families and friends. I charged $5 at the door and gave that money to the front desk worker and the studio. The studio let me do it for free as long as they could plug their other classes. It was a lovely event. And I think it made me even more a part of the community. But i'd agree with the advize from the ladies here. Many of us who have taken the time to answer you also put on events and basically you called us clickish and said our events suck.

1. Proactively watch local boards and websites for announcements and contact the organizers right away.
   i do watch several boards and as mentioned in my post; alot of the times when a event is listed, it is allready full or like cj's it is never promoted.
   
2. Don't make the mistake of *only* being friendly to event organizers when you want something from them. Reach out to them at other times, attend their student recitals, call them up to compliment them on a new web design (if you genuinely like it), come to their restaurant shows, etc.
   I am friendly to alot of the dancers and organizers, not just when i want something from them. i would go to more shows but i don't have my own transportation. i am not the only one who is displeased with the way things are
   
3. Be a pro. If you commit to dance in a show, you dance in that show. I've done it with broken toes, I've turned down paying gigs to dance at a hafla. A commitment is a commitment, and the show must go on. Don't leave the organizer
   
   I try not to back out, but when all of a sudden my way of getting there is non existant, i don't have a choice.
   
4. Support your local community. Attend events even if you're not performing at them and support the students with lots of smiling and cheering (it's fun!). If you are dancing at an event, stay for the whole evening, in the audience, and watch the other performers. Stay after and help put up chairs or help sweep up glitter in the dressing room. IOW, make it clear you think of yourself as part of the community rather than some diva who swoops in expecting others to do all the work and be her audience.
   I do not think of myself as a diva. i stay for the entire event and cheer on every dancer.. i have allways told many how great i thought thier routine was and was being honest about it.
5. Don't talk bad about your community organizers. Not on Bhuz and not within your community. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

have seen many " bad mouth others on here and other boards. this is the first time i have sounded off.

Hopefully a dancer actually enjoys being part of her community and all of the above are actually fun things to do. Then the whole thing is authentic, social, and a great time. That's how it is for me, anyway. i do normally enjoy it, except for fact it seems the opportunities are only available to a select few.

Otherwise, all of the above would just be a$$kissing, and I'm not sure I'd want to do that just for a hafla dance slot. But life really is an even energy exchange most of the time, and if you want something from people (to provide you with performance opps, to stay in their seats and pay attention while you perform) then you have to look at what you have to offer back. Kindness, friendliness and return support seem reasonable. i don't a$$kiss



hopefully this will answer anyones assumptions

Originally Posted by theesfield

It's strange to me that you would say that Ayoubgrl. I've seen you perform a number of times. I have also known that you were on a few line ups where you didn't end up performing for whatever reason. I would be careful in putting down the organizers of the events in our area. It's not an easy task to take on. There are more dancers than there are spaces for. I'm not sure how many opportunities are going to open up for you now that you've stated the current ones "suck" and called the producers and participants a"biased clique". But if you are truly unhappy with the current way things are run, I agree with the above posters.. start your own.

i generally end up at the same events. i am talking about ones that are listed when they are allready full or you find out about afterwards due to it never being promoted. i have not even gotten into the lack of south suburban "chicagoland" haflas. if i am to be penalized for being the mouth piece of my fellow dissatisfied dancers, by the ones who never promote or say here's our hafla, only to find out it was full before it was listed. fine. this was not directed at those whom fairly promote haflas and give a wide variety of dancers a chance to share thier gift.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I assume you're talking about the Chicago area? I wish people would say Chicagoland when that's what they mean.

It's a pet peeve of mine when Chicago peeps think the rest of the state is some kind of black hole or suburb.

i don't just mean chicago. there is more than just chicago or the northern and western suburbs. believe it or not chicago actually has south and southwestern burbs to.

Did you just name someone's hafla's in particular? I don't think that person is on this message board. You may want to re think and send out some personal emails to those who you have issues with instead of posting on a public forum. If you are the voice of several dancers, perhaps they would like to join you in some personal emails directed to the right people.

AyougGrl, as kindly as I can state this, you are way off base here. There are a lot of opportunities to dance and a lot of event organizers in our "Chicagoland" area, as well as a lot of dancers. Some organizers do invite certain performers first and then open up available slots to others. I plan my shows depending on the type of event, who has expressed an interest to me at a prior event, and a lot of other factors to be considered. But if you want in on some of those opportunities, you need to seek them out. I'll try to put anyone in my shows who expresses an interest if I can. Recall that when you asked about a spot in my April Shimmy it was already full and I had a short wait list. I told you I'd give you first dibs on a spot in the next Shimmy, and I did. You were in that lineup until the week before when you told me you had to back out due to lack of transportation. I said I'd keep you on the list for the next one and hopefully things would work out then.

Unlike some of the others here, I do know you, and I think you need to re-evaluate your perception of this community. We may tend to "hang out" with certain groups of dancers, but that's due to loyalty to our students, other teachers that we mentor with (subbing for each other, etc.), and willingness to work together. Sometimes it's because of geography - we just don't live that close to each other, and many of our community have the same issue that you do -- lack of transportation, or reliance on public transportation. When I do head into "foreign" turf, I've found only support, acceptance, interest, a willingness to share information, and the opportunity to make new friends. I've seen you dance at two recent haflas, and I've seen everyone extend these same courtesies to you. I'm sorry you feel that is not your experience.

I don't know what prompted this current rant, but I really think you need to take responsibility for your own experience. Opportunities are out there if you look for them. Search out the websites of the local event organizers, or find them on Facebook or MySpace. Check those sites regularly and you'll find notices of upcoming events. But it's up to you to make your interest known. And if it doesn't work out for you this time, ASK if you can be kept on the list for the next time. It's not that difficult.

And please feel free to share this information with the others you refer to that feel the same way you do.

donna, i do contact people about haflas. when i find out about ones from friens i do ask who to contact. 99.9% of the time full. i belong to several sites, so do the others. if i or others can't express our opinions or feelings espec bad here then it should be blocked. this is a place to share ideals and feelings. i have seen others say much worse than i have here. if u don't believe there are others, that is your opinion. if u don't like that not everyone thinks the bellydance world is a perfect, fair and happy place; i am sorry. however, good or bad we are all entitled to our feelings and opinions like them or not. if u want to burn me at the stake for being the mouthpiece for a group of dissatisfied dancers, such is life.

again this is not just my opinion/ rant/ etc

Originally Posted by AyoubGRL

donna, i do contact people about haflas. when i find out about ones from friens i do ask who to contact. 99.9% of the time full. i belong to several sites, so do the others. if i or others can't express our opinions or feelings espec bad here then it should be blocked. this is a place to share ideals and feelings. i have seen others say much worse than i have here. if u don't believe there are others, that is your opinion. if u don't like that not everyone thinks the bellydance world is a perfect, fair and happy place; i am sorry. however, good or bad we are all entitled to our feelings and opinions like them or not. if u want to burn me at the stake for being the mouthpiece for a group of dissatisfied dancers, such is life.

again this is not just my opinion/ rant/ etc

I'll be brief...

1) Just because you want a spot in a show doesn't mean it's not fair if you don't get one.
2) It is not the fault of any organizer that your personal transportation situation is unreliable.
3) You and your group of really need to pool your resources and start your own events--you seem determined to be a martyr in this.

~~Kimahri

Im not saying your opinions don't matter. Im just saying that you called someone out and named them personally on this forum, to the best of my knowledge they do not frequent this board. You may want to take this up with her directly so your opinion can be heard. Im not sure if you mean to be targeting the hafla producers in your area that are on this board. Or maybe that was your intention?

Originally Posted by AyoubGRL

donna, i do contact people about haflas. when i find out about ones from friens i do ask who to contact. 99.9% of the time full. i belong to several sites, so do the others. if i or others can't express our opinions or feelings espec bad here then it should be blocked. this is a place to share ideals and feelings. i have seen others say much worse than i have here. if u don't believe there are others, that is your opinion. if u don't like that not everyone thinks the bellydance world is a perfect, fair and happy place; i am sorry. however, good or bad we are all entitled to our feelings and opinions like them or not. if u want to burn me at the stake for being the mouthpiece for a group of dissatisfied dancers, such is life.

again this is not just my opinion/ rant/ etc

Devona, if "the others" are asking you to be their spokesperson, they're setting you up for the slaughter. But I'm thinking you thrive on that. You've got an issue with CJ, then you should contact her directly. CJ IS NOT ON BHUZ!! She'll never know how dissatisfied you are with her. And knowing CJ, she probably won't care either.

You've misinterpreted everything I said, and are being deliberately obtuse about this entire situation. I was trying to be understanding of your situation, but I'm not going to whitewash the fact that you're getting off on your own pity party here. You and your friends need to grow up.

And BTW, this is your SECOND rant on Bhuz. The first time you attacked the entire BHUZ community for being unresponsive to your comments. Yes, ladies, this is Devona, the perpetrator of the original FLOUNCE thread.

Abc

Sorry, but I'm about to be blunt.

Frankly, if the negativity I see portrayed here is picked up by those who know you in person, I'm not surprised the community isn't banging down your door.

Put up or shut up - if the opportunities you desire aren't coming to you, create them yourself. And stop playing the victim.

oh my

This whole thread pisses me off so much! ,m:: The numerous Chicagoland organizers that I have been involved with have been among the most gracious, patient and inclusive people I've ever met. They put up with so much drama and difficulties to put on a show - at the end of the day for little to no profit or maybe even losing money - and still they have people like you completely belittling their efforts. Nice.

Originally Posted by Kimahri

2) It is not the fault of any organizer that your personal transportation situation is unreliable.

It's not like me to pick on someone directly, especially not when it seems like a pile on is in progress. But dude! I have seen you post several times on Bhuz and in other places that you signed up for a hafla but don't have a ride and need one stat. You can't just sign up for something and just hope that you can make it - don't sign up unless you *know* you can get there. If it's an emergency, like your car breaks down or someone dies, that's one thing. But something like that should only happen once in a blue moon (I had to cancel on only two haflas the past five years, and both were due to the death of a close family member the week of the event).

I tell my students that there are really only three things an organizer really wants a performer to do: show up, dance decently, and be pleasant. If someone can't manage all three of those things simultaneously at every event they perform in, they are unlikely to be offered many performance opportunities. And to be honest, I don't think those are very difficult requests in the first place.