Thread: Make Me A Competition Winning Choreography for $$$

Hello All,

I will be participating in a competition coming up and seek some choreography assistance. I am normally an improvisational dancer and creating choreography has never come naturally to me. I don't want to improvise an entire competition set because it's a more formal occasion and just seems inappropriate to do so.

I am ending the set with a Lebanese derbake that is raw and agressive. What I need is an entrance and short dance to lead up to the drum solo. I would like it to have a Lebanese flare, although it does not need to, and I need it to be as graceful as it is challenging. I'd like it to be super impressive yet not overdone. The choreography needs to incorporate level changes, innovative floor patterns, interesting poses and angling, layering, and a prop or two is a plus. Please, no "boxy" vanilla choreography; "1-2-3-4. 1-2-3-4..." represents a very western concept of rhythm and musical interpretation and will not do. It's got to be hot and it's got to be on! This cannot be a fusion dance of any sort and must utilize Middle Eastern music.

Oh, and it only needs to be 1:56 seconds max! Not a lot of work right? Just 1:56. The challenge is to make a minute and fifty-six seconds of competition winning glory!

Please, only serious replies from masterful dancers with competitive experience or generally amazing skills.

I will pay $5 (via paypal) to the first 10 people to reply to this thread AND send me a video snippet of their concepts just to keep it honest. It does not need to be full length (although the more the better)-- just a taste. Whoever's choreography is the most awesome will get get paid for the full routine which must come with an instructional video (on youtube, disc via mail, or e-mail).

Don't let the $5 interest pay derail you-- fees for full choreography are negotiable. I want to get paid what I'm worth a gig, so please set rates that reflect your worth and we can base it on the quality of the work that is presented.

Two pieces of music I have been listening to are: "Khali Akh" by G-Night, and "Fatma (Studio)" by Mohamad Tounsi. Both of which are available for a listen on Amazon.com. If you need the music, I can e-mail it to you. BUT, if you have another piece in mind that you think is stellar, I'm totally open to it.

You can message me for my e-mail and/or address to send sample choreographies.


Thanks in advance to all the lovely choreographers who take the challenge!

Best,
Thana

"Oh, and it only needs to be 1:56 seconds max! Not a lot of work right? Just 1:56. The challenge is to make a minute and fifty-six seconds of competition winning glory!"

If it wasn't a lot of work, you wouldn't need help.

I know it sounds snarky, but here's some hard truth:

5$ is waaaaaay too low a price to pay for coming up with an idea, putting it into words and providing some video for it simply for the HOPE that one might get hired by someone with an unknown budget...and sending out sample choreographies and risking that they will be used by others without any agreed parameters (as you could EASILY use choreographies sent to you for teaching, performing, other things and we've only your word that you won't)is foolish for anyone who wants to professionally choreograph. It's the choreography version of dancing for free in a restaurant with customers as an "audition"

Am I all negative? No, here's what I think will get you what you want and be a far more effective and professional way of going about it:

Search exhaustively through You Tube and other sources for viewing dancers, ask about (and here) to see who is a solid choreographer and check out existing clips they have of their work. YOU weed it down to dancers (be they known for Choreo or not) and choroegraphers whose styles you think would suit you and you think would be capable of doing what you need...and contacting them asking if they are for hire to create choreography and what they would charge for (and then explain what you need)...THAT will give you an idea of if you can afford what you need before you proceed.

I assume you've consulted the competition rules regarding whether it is acceptable to use another dancer's choreography? Some competitions will not permit you to perform anything but your own original material.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I assume you've consulted the competition rules regarding whether it is acceptable to use another dancer's choreography? Some competitions will not permit you to perform anything but your own original material.

I'm guessing that this is the comp:
2010 Belly Dance Nationals Competition CATEGORIES AND TITLES

Doesn't say anything against other people's choreography, although many of the judges are regular bhuzzers and I assume many Bhuzzers will be competing (another good reason to search out prospective choreographers in a more professional manner...)

You know, two minutes of choreography is actually a lot of work especially if you don't know the dancer - it might actually make sense for you to work with somebody who knows you and your skills and how you move.

Plus, the music you'll be using to come into this and out of it are really important too, also your costuming - it has to all work together.

I wish you the best in the contest!

Yes ladies, I understand it's extremely hard work-- I guess sarcasm is hard to get over the internet. I know what will go int it, obviously, that's why I'm contracting help....

There's nothing in the rules that says you must come up with your own choreography. In fact, many people hire coaches and specialists to train them for competition. This is my first one and I don't know what to expect, so I wanted to be prepared with something amazing.

I've also never contracted anyone for this purpose as I usually just do my own sets, so $5 may be low-- I can't afford to pay every interest high dollar just to present a concept. Like I said, I'm wide open-- if someone needs more money to come up with an idea to show me before I contract them it's certainly open for negotiation. I've been in those shoes and certainly understand.

Not to mention, whoever gets hired is going to get a nice letter of reference for their dance resumes too.

... This is way discouraging ladies. Usually buzzers are so positive and supportive. I hoped someone would jump at the offer and wonder how much the real deal was going to be for....

Again, any interest please send price requirements.

I would recommend contacting former contest winners personally. It will give you a chance to select someone who fits your style but knows what it takes to win a competition. They are almost always listed on competition websites, so it shouldn't be hard to do.

Originally Posted by shems

I would recommend contacting former contest winners personally. It will give you a chance to select someone who fits your style but knows what it takes to win a competition. They are almost always listed on competition websites, so it shouldn't be hard to do.

Agreed...contact people directly and explain what you need and ask them what their terms are. Also, ask them if they have any guidance for you in general, be specific with questions.

Also, if cash is an issue...do you have dancer friends you could barter with?

I don't think anyone is trying to be discouraging- but seriously, $5 pays for 15 minutes of my time- that's about enough time to give the song a good listen a couple times...

If you are serious about hiring help, your budget is going to have to be a lot bigger- otherwise, yes, do what has been suggested here- find someone you *like* first, see if you can do some bartering with either goods or services. a nice letter of recommendation or resume padding doesn't count as barter.

You can also go for further training which might serve you better in the long run if you might be doing more competition or choreographing in the future.(I teach how to develop a choreography on your own and give reviews in private lessons- I am sure someone in your area has experience in this too)

Good luck!

Originally Posted by ThanaTheSpartan

There's nothing in the rules that says you must come up with your own choreography. In fact, many people hire coaches and specialists to train them for competition.

Hiring a coach and hiring a choreographer can be two different things. One of my teachers regularly coaches contestants, and she is always very careful to guide her input so that it only refines an established creative vision, not so that it changes it in any substantive way (e.g., she won't tell you how to frame your arms, only remind you that you need to smooth out your lines). Then again, she works primarily with contestants who are entering a nearby competition that requires participants to do their own choreographies.

This is my first one and I don't know what to expect, so I wanted to be prepared with something amazing.

I've also never contracted anyone for this purpose as I usually just do my own sets,

I guess I don't understand why you think that you need an outside choreographer to be "amazing" if you are already used to doing your own work. It takes a very highly trained dancer to do justice to someone else's vision of how movement should fit music. Maybe you are--I have no idea how you dance. However, most students clop through the motions of someone else's choreography like they are wearing someone else's clothes. Personally, I would rather see more emotional connection to the music than choreographic prowess, if I had to choose between the two. A simple, heartfelt performance can be very powerful and elegant. Obviously, the best dancers are able to be both completely in the moment and emotive, AND intricate and nuanced in their presentation, but the fact that you are asking for help seems to imply that you question whether you can.

As I said, I don't know you or anything about your dancing. It is possible that some of the negative response you are seeing here is coming from the impression of presumptuousness that one might get from reading something to the effect of, "Make me a choreography and when I win, you can bask in the reflected glory." How can you be sure you will win (regardless of how good the choreography is)? Perhaps my style would be a disastrous fit for you, even if you really like the way I feel the music. Maybe you're secretly a horrible dancer. How much prestige would be attached if you placed sixth out of ten, or if you took my work and made a total mess of it?

If you want to get an "amazing," competition-winning piece from a choreographer, it needs to be a collaborative process that plays to your strengths and skirts your weaknesses. Putting out a cattle call to strangers to deliver a canned middle section to your competition set really isn't the way to go about it.

I really like the idea of contacting someone whose style you like. You're likely to waste $50 hearing ideas you don't like. It may also be best to select someone fairly local so you can do collaborating in real life.

FWIW, I don't think the posters were intending to be sarcastic or unsupportive; they're being realistic. If a dancer is capable of creating a choreography worthy of a competition, s/he likely isn't going to take on the challenge because s/he wonders how much you'll pay him/her. If anything, the low fee for a concept is likely to deter him/her, since so much work would be involved.

I agree with Tourbeau. For a choreo to be competition winning the choreo has to play up to your strengths. I could choreograph a song for you right now but because I have never seen you dance and don't know your dance style I have no idea if you could perform it. If you don't think you can do it on your own, you should really pick someone
whose style already matches yours. I personally have a difficult time dancing to someone else's choreo because I have my own style. I might get "ideas" from watching someone else dance to the same piece of music but I would never be able to dance to it exactly the same way.

If the choreo doesn't suit your style, no matter if you execute it perfectly, it will come across as wooden.

If you can already do great improv it may just be a matter of disciplining yourself to practice the song over and over so you can "work out" sections of the music that may be a little more difficult to master. Maybe find a mentor who can watch clips of you and give advice.

I listened to both tracks. I like the first one. The second one drove me crazy until I recognised it as the theme song for the Saut wa Soura videos.

Good luck!

Sabrina may be able to help. She has won an award in the past, and her website says she helps contestants.

Sabrina Belly Dancer - Belly Dance Classes in San Diego, California

I am no sure what your budget is overall, but I can give you an idea of how much I charge for this kind of service. I am not available for this one due to other commitments, but my process in creating a competition choreography for a dancer I have not known/taught before is:

1. Receive email or phone call indicating interest
2. Phone consultation: Minimum 30 minutes to discuss the broad ideas for the project.
3. In person or video review of the person's dance style. If in person, this will be 2-4 hours. If on video, 4-6 hours of work.
4. Style consultation: Minimum 30 minutes to discuss the dancer's vision based on current performance style and level of technique.
5. Review and mapping of song: Minimum 1 hour per minute of song to listen, become familiar, map the instruments, melodies, rhythms, and mood of the song.
6. Initial Choreography: Write 1st draft of choreography. Minimum 1 hour per minute of choreography.
7. In person or on video teaching of the initial choreography. Minimum 1 hour per minute of choreography.
8. Discussion and changes to choreography. 30 min to 4 hours.
9. Final Choreography: Re-work initial choreography and teach changes. 30 min to 4 hours.
10. Review and coach dancer to perfect choreography.

That is a lot of work, none of which I would begin for $5 on the off-chance that I might be chosen to work with a dancer. My overall cost is usually based on the number of hours of work it takes. For the above, you can assume $30-$50/hr depending on the complexity of the work. For a dancer that I work with already, the costs would be significantly less because I don't have to learn their style and capabilities and can begin immediately on choreographing and can shorten or skip steps.

My best suggestion to you right now is to email/call specific dancers whose styles fit your vision and ask them for their process and charges for a competition choreography. Good luck with your project! I hope you get a fabulous choreography and have a wonderful time at the competition. ..g.:

WOW I did not mean ti offend anyone. The $5 was not like a "thanks for sending a message with your interest" regardless if any work was done. Just to see who was out there and willing. Honestly, I didn't really know where to begin finding someone. I live in a secluded farmy area and there really is no one I know locally that I think may be able to take on the task. Aside from other personal reasons, I really just wanted to try something new. Ok, these little phone buttons are making it hard to type. I appreciate the advice. Be back on later to finish up this thread.

Opposition typo. The $5 WAS supposed to be a thanks for interest

LOL , I meant "oops" ... This phone just types what it wants sometimes lol ...

Originally Posted by ThanaTheSpartan

Opposition typo. The $5 WAS supposed to be a thanks for interest

I'm sure you're feeling attacked...but no one is attacking you. Everyone is giving you more realistic options and a wide variety of them. If you have access to the internet, and you do, you now have ways to proceed (contacting former winners for example). You'll get more done following up on those suggestions and asking clarifying questions here than trying to argue that your base idea is still one worth sticking to.

If you live in relative isolation from a scene we don't blame you for not understanding how comissioning works...just like we can't really blame members of the GP for not understanding the price range of the first time they call.

And, to be fair to us, you didn't seem to be just offering cash to people who "showed interest" you asked that, for the chance to get 5$ IF they were the first 10, that they:

"reply to this thread AND send me a video snippet of their concepts just to keep it honest. It does not need to be full length (although the more the better)-- just a taste"

And putting together a video snippet for you, or culling them together, that does take work.

Yikes-a-roni! OK, After reading the feedback more carefully, I realize I'm not being attacked. I was just getting snippets at work today and it blew up in my mind. This is awesome info ladies and I really appreciate the advice-- it's refreshing actually to get some feedback that's so constructive. As a matter of fact, I realize this is SO supportive in it's honesty that now I have what I think I was looking for when I posted this thread-- A starting point.

Le sigh, so much thanks!

Best,
Thana

... now how do I delete this embarrassing thread? I feel like a total bonehead, lol!

Originally Posted by ThanaTheSpartan

... now how do I delete this embarrassing thread? I feel like a total bonehead, lol!

Eh, live and learn.

Don't bother trying to delete it. It might be helpful for others who are in a similar position.

There are also many threads about competitions, you can use the search function.

Hello there I am not going to attack dont worry!
After winning and being in the top 3 of few top competitions, I started coaching dancers/dance friends/my own regular students for competitions on a regular basis charging my private fees, usually start with $35 (package) but $50 one session one time fee.
I need to know the dancer's ability, technical training, style perhaps thru exchanging information by various ways of media, and we need to start working on the music and choreography.

Hey Thana, why don't you contact your former teacher in Sterling? She knows your style.

You are a fabulous dancer (having seen you at a Tiraz Holiday Hafla a few years back). I don't doubt you will put out a flaming-hot performance!

I will be competing in 2 categories, completely improv, Why? because I am confidant in my improvisational skills. Its what I am good at, and if that is not good enough to win I will sit in the audience clapping wildly for the winner. I do hope that the winner uses ALL of her own material because I know I will, and If I do just happen to place I will go home with overwhelming pride that MY material was good enough for recognition. Beyond all that I am very excited about the feed back, and the chance to dance,

How about really trying to come up with YOUR OWN CHOREOGRAPHY and then having a professional review it for you (privates etc). Why do you want to win based on someone else's work? Most of the time winners teach workshops (after they have won) etc to help other students - It would be nice doing it on your own accord.

Might I add, that there is no reason you cant go an "work" with someone to write a choreo together, then you can use your own creative ideas and style combine with constructive criticism

Originally Posted by annwyn

Might I add, that there is no reason you cant go an "work" with someone to write a choreo together, then you can use your own creative ideas and style combine with constructive criticism

I think this would be a great compromise- you have already planned out most of your routine, you have worked with your music -why not take what you have already worked on & ask someone to do private lessons to tweak it. I think you would get more out of it in the long run.

Originally Posted by Lara L

I think this would be a great compromise- you have already planned out most of your routine, you have worked with your music -why not take what you have already worked on & ask someone to do private lessons to tweak it. I think you would get more out of it in the long run.

I have done this as a competitor and it has been reeeeeeally helpful. I have the ideas, the concepts, the choreo, the style and the music, but I need somebody to beat me over the head to make it the best it can.

Hope you find what you need, Thana! And good luck in the competition!

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

I have done this as a competitor and it has been reeeeeeally helpful. I have the ideas, the concepts, the choreo, the style and the music, but I need somebody to beat me over the head to make it the best it can.

This is also how I approached the three competitions I was in. I came up with the choreo myself, and my teacher helped put the spit and polish in it for me.

Originally Posted by casbahdance

I have done this as a competitor and it has been reeeeeeally helpful. I have the ideas, the concepts, the choreo, the style and the music, but I need somebody to beat me over the head to make it the best it can.

Deborah, did you do this with someone local?? If so, who? My current mentor is just way too nice to give me such feedback.