Thread: you must be kidding...

I just had a senior dancer, who does booking at a restaurant, email me and ask me if I would be willing to dance, on a Saturday night, three-four sets (owner's discretion) - and stay on site for four hours for the grand total of $50. Supposedly the tips are good but...

I'm thinking of writing her back and asking her if she meant $50 per set. I know I'm new to professional dancing, but I think I'm worth more than 12$ per hour. Right? I am surprised she can find anyone to dance at that rate.

If you were the head dancer at a restaurant, wouldn't you feel sorta crappy if you had to lowball all the people you were trying to recruit? is it worth attempting to negotiate, since she's not even the owner? (who sounds sketchy from her description.)

I know that a lot of dancers give discounts to their regular gigs but surely not that much of a discount? Or is _my_ head in the clouds? I'm thinking it's just not worth my time but I'm trying to figure out how to say no without offending this woman, who probably accepts this low rate of pay for herself. I'm not snotty - but I have a good day job, limited free time, and I'd rather be at home with my honey unless the money is worth it.

Thanks bhuzzers...

I think you should just come flat out and say it - if it's not $50 PER SET, then it's below your minimum and not worth it for you. It's not insulting her if she didn't set the price - hopefully she realizes that horribly low. And if she DID set the price, then maybe you'll open up her eyes to realize that's ridiculous.

I like your idea of saying, "I think there may have been a typo in your message - you meant $50 per set, didn't you?" Asking it in that way isn't insulting, but it does communicate your expectation. If she comes back and says, "No, $50 total," then you can reply with, "Wow, I had no idea that pay at this restaurant was so low. Thanks so much for thinking of me, but with such low pay I'm afraid I just can't dedicate that kind of time to this opportunity! But please keep me in mind for the future if they raise their pay rates to be more in line with the going rate elsewhere."

"Elsewhere", in the above paragraph, could mean other local restaurants (if applicable), OR "restaurants in similarly-sized cities".

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

... maybe you'll open up her eyes to realize that's ridiculous.

Maybe...but it's more in line with my experience that she'll decide you're ridiculous for expecting to be paid three or four times as much as she's getting when you're a noob, and she may even tell everyone who'll listen how you'll get knocked down a peg when you've been in the business for a while, and yadda yadda yadda.

I hope I'm wrong, but truly this has been my experience. Dancers who've been around a while are sometimes very threatened by young upstarts who place a higher value on themelves.

The tough part is, you have to stand up for yourself KNOWING this could happen.

I agree with you, you have to be very careful not to be insulting of someone who does dance for such a low rate, and not to sound preachy.

"Wow, I'm so glad you thought of me! I've been told a standard rate for restaurants is about $50 a set, is that what you meant? If it's $50 for the whole night, I think I'll have to pass. But again, I really appreciate the offer and I'm honored that you thought of me. "

Aaaaah, the Casbah in Winthrop, isn't it? If not, I'll name and shame them anyway, since that was the rate *I* was offered several years ago when the booker emailed me about dancing there.

Shira's reply sounds spot on...I'd be interested to see what response YOU get, if any!

What I find hard to believe is that when I googled the restaurant, I found that a number of people I know have danced there. I can't figure out why they would put themselves through that torture. Surely most people in this area make more than 12$/hour at their day jobs, right?

and while we're talking about it, the owner sounds kookoo. Wants you to dance to whatever is playing on his stereo system as soon as you get in, may want you to do extra sets depending on who's in the restaurant (for the same pay), demands all the ones from your tips apparently because he needs them for the cash register (!!) (I really hope I read that part wrong).

Oh bhuz people, I love you - without you I would have doubting myself, wondering if I was pricing myself too high.

p.s. I used Lauren's approach. I don't think the head dancer is a bad person - she probably feels she is giving me a great opportunity, and I don't want to burn my bridges with her. But every woman has their price and I'd rather be with my friends on a saturday night.

I took the advice of a (quite popular) head dancer in a similar situation and am trying to get out of it (or fix the pay scale - ha!) so these responses are very helpful. When the lead dancer has been there for 15 years working for the same pay, it's a long shot in hell to think the pay is suddenly gonna get better, eh?

Lauren's approach is good. I too want to know if she responds...

well, I got a brief response. Hard to tell what the tone was, though hopefully I didn't offend her...basically:
"Ok, I understand. Thanks anyway."

I turned down that same offer a while back, if it is indeed the restaurant named by Lilya (it sounds like it could be another local Moroccan place with the same terms as well--they definitely do some price-setting, even if we're not supposed to). The booking dancer was a bit apologetic about it, telling me that it didn't pay well and the owner was a jerk* but that it was a great learning experience and a wonderful enthusiastic Moroccan family crowd. I used my lack of my own car as a polite way to turn down the offer, avoiding the whole subject of pay. But I assure you the booking dancer knows this isn't a good or fair wage. It might be that she's not in a position to get any more money for the dancers and figures some work is better than no work, or she might be philosophically okay with it, I don't know...

*he's the one who threw Seyyide's cd at her when he didn't like her music, btw.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

well, I got a brief response. Hard to tell what the tone was, though hopefully I didn't offend her...basically:
"Ok, I understand. Thanks anyway."

Well, that's brief, but not unpleasant. I'd take it at face value.

I like the way Shira put it.

But basically, it doesn't matter if you're new the restaurant dancing or not: if it's below the rate, it's not good. (and this sounds way, waay below).
I don't even think you need to come up with an excuse (no car, or babysitting, or whatever).

When a local dancer asked me to dance at a venue for free, I politely turned her down, saying that I do not dance for free (having dancing 4-5 t paid gigs / week, I can't even justify it). I really don't think I insulted her, she was sweet, we had a great conversation, etc.

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

I turned down that same offer a while back, if it is indeed the restaurant named by Lilya (it sounds like it could be another local Moroccan place with the same terms as well--they definitely do some price-setting, even if we're not supposed to). The booking dancer was a bit apologetic about it, telling me that it didn't pay well and the owner was a jerk* but that it was a great learning experience and a wonderful enthusiastic Moroccan family crowd. I used my lack of my own car as a polite way to turn down the offer, avoiding the whole subject of pay. But I assure you the booking dancer knows this isn't a good or fair wage. It might be that she's not in a position to get any more money for the dancers and figures some work is better than no work, or she might be philosophically okay with it, I don't know...

*he's the one who threw Seyyide's cd at her when he didn't like her music, btw.

and my tips over another person, then didn't pay me my tips.

It's not that place, another one. And I was told that the dancer I know who worked there before was paid $150 for her time, so it has paid well in the past.

I didn't know the pay rate at this place, but was approached by the same dancer. I had agreed to dance, but I understood the pay rate to be higher, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Originally Posted by kina

and my tips over another person, then didn't pay me my tips.

It's not that place, another one. And I was told that the dancer I know who worked there before was paid $150 for her time, so it has paid well in the past.

I didn't know the pay rate at this place, but was approached by the same dancer. I had agreed to dance, but I understood the pay rate to be higher, hmmmmmmmmmm.

I had remembered that also, Kina - the time your tips were taken. And that you said that being there made you absolutely miserable.

I KNOW you didn't accept that low rate so I guess I just got lowballed. Oh well, I still have my dignity.