Thread: Physical Descriptions in Copy: Tacky or Not?

We've all seen this one before:

"Lady Shapoopie is a magnificent statuesque goddess of a woman, with dreamy eyes the color of a sparkling sea, and a waterfall of luxurious auburn hair that cascades down her sides as she ripples into a sea of dazzling shimmies."

Goes without saying, that your average Bhuzzer will unanimously send this kind of language packing to the land of high-class unicorns.

What about physical descriptions in a subtler incarnation:

"A petite powerhouse, Lady Shapoopie captivates audiences with larger-than-life presence onstage and off."

In other words, do you believe that physical descriptions have any place in a dance bio? Should pictures suffice, or do looks bear important mention, i.e. in cases where a dancer slightly outside the box might want to position her liabilities as assets? What is your reaction when you read a blurb (long or short) about a dancer's physical beauty? Is it tacky, or do you not mind?

I'm honestly not 100% sure how I feel and would like to get a conversation going.

~Satin

I don't see anything wrong with it. People are usually curious about how we look, a subtly-worded snippet in a bio doesn't seem inappropriate.

Right. I'm toying with the idea of writing a very clean, simple blurb about my "classic good looks" in order to position my fair coloring and European looks as an asset rather than a detriment.

I've just seen some very poorly worded physical descriptions that catapult into the realm of wayyyyyy over-the-top and self-indulgent, and want to be extra vigilant that I keep everything in proper taste and not ruffle anybody's feathers

Unless it's something someone else has written about the dancer (like from an article), I usually prefer none of the flowery writing or anything I think is rather irrelevant. If your physical appearance, such as being overweight, has played a role in your dance (like finding body acceptance), I don't mind that. If I were going to write a dance bio of myself, I don't think I'd write about my physical self. I don't feel like being 4'10, East Asian, and thin with curves is that important to who I am as a dancer.

Not that it's the same, but I think having some kind of very basic description of yourself on a dance resume or something similar to what actors hand out is find.

Satin, I don't know what you are trying to do. A couple of days ago I took a self-imposed Bhuz holiday because of the hammering away at one dancer's website. And now I come back to more of the same.

I think you are making a generalizations as to what "average Bhuzzers" might unanimosly think or not think.

Your taste in costumes, website design, hair dressing, and copy writing is your taste. It might not be mine or anyone else's. And if it is or is not in someone else's taste so what?

Please, just let this go and move on.

Souzan

PS -- I am a maganificent statutesque woman with eyes the color of rich amber. My thick auburn hair ripples in waves with a natural wave that defies description when it rises from my head in the nightly sea mist off the Gulf of Mexico.

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at either. I am thinking about using a subtle physical description in my own bio, but would like a little feedback as to whether or not it would be in good taste. Not that I want to meld myself into a mega-Bhuzzer who has 100% approval across the board (heck, I'm still fishing my approval ratings out of the toilet after that previous thread)....but I think the Business forum can be a fantastic sounding board for ideas when you're a little on the fence. It's like a focus group, only free.

The previous thread has opened to a couple of threads now about copywriting, which is a good thing. As others have mentioned, we can all afford to have some polish and finesse in our promotional materials, and I'm glad to see a renewed interest in giving our images and press kits the finishing touch.

Now, I'm off to eat my dinner...watch me as my stomach roars, like the echo in a mighty canyon.

~Lisa

I don't think a detailed physical description is needed in most cases. Dancers should have up-to-date photos that take care of that if they are marketing themselves. That being said, mention of the dancer's looks/body is a natural part of any description of what it is like to watch her dance.

I think it depends on the description. In general, I think a picture is worth a thousand words when it comes to letting potential bookers know what a dancer looks like.

In your example of the "petite powerhouse", I can see how a photo alone might not tell the whole story. You can't really tell a person's height from most photos unless there are other people in the photo to compare her to, and it sidesteps the issue of, "I had no idea you were so SHORT!" But is it necessary to make a point of telling potential bookers what to expect from your height? It doesn't seem necessary to me, but I don't see any harm in it if the dancer wants to do it.

I don't think it's harmful for a bio to contain a quick sentence, such as your example of "classic good looks", but I'd be careful to avoid making it too overblown.

You're right, Shira. It's easy to cross the line between a passable physical description and something that either raises red flags (such as height), or comes off as overwrought. I'm not even sure where I'd draw the line, myself, which is why I wanted to feel others out on their opinion.

It's also hard to come up with a unique physical description that isn't corny or cliche: we've all heard firey Latina, blonde bombshell, and even petite powerhouse before.

Just thinking of a way to sidestep the common questions about my ethnicity that inevitably come up, and position fair features and a thin build as *lightbulb goes on!* a good thing, as these are things that have gotten me turned down for a small handful of gigs in the past.

That being said, however, I am pitching for performance gigs, not for a spot in the new Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition.

Hmmmm....definitely an interesting conundrum.

*scratches head*

I don't think it's entirely necessary either since most dancers have updated photos on their websites. I'm petite but don't point that out...I don't think that it would win/lose me any jobs. If anything, keep it to 2-3 descriptive words

Hmm...I guess I'm inclined to say that, unless it's in a quote from someone else, references to physical good looks/appearance tend to seem a little...odd to me (as with anything there could be exceptions I suppose....) But generally, if you have good photos, those should generally do the trick. Maybe an exception would be if the photos are terribly outdated and cannot be replaced (so, say, there is something that must somehow conveyed about how the dancer may differ from her pics yet presented in a positive light...I don't know exactly what I mean by that, though...Queeny Glitterpants has really come into her own as a beautiful dancer and artist since losing that left arm? ..c::)

You, my dear, are young and cute. To be honest (ok, blunt), I think a beautiful picture of you that shows your face (glammed up to the proper degree to appear exotic in the glamorous sense if not the foreign/ethnic sense) along with maybe a couple of nice dance/costume shots should say everything that needs to be said about your appearance. Honestly...I know you've run into a few walls because of your "WASPy-ness", but I don't think long term it's going to be carry the weight liability you're applying to it right now. In the long run, how you dance, how you market yourself, and a certain amount of dumb luck are going to be bigger factors. And...there will always be some people who will prefer a darker/ethnic look. One line of copy isn't going to change their minds. In fact...it has the potential to sound almost defensive (whiiiich...you are a little right now when it comes to the whole "not looking ethnic" thing--and understandably so--but still--why start someone wondering "Wait, why does she feel the need to *tell* us she's good looking--I can see that. )

My advice, since you asked us: let your classic good looks speak for themselves.

Now, on the otherhand, if someone writes a review/testimonial about you that happens to mention (among other things) something about your appearance and you use that, that's fair game. ..g.:

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

You're right, Shira. It's easy to cross the line between a passable physical description and something that either raises red flags (such as height), or comes off as overwrought. I'm not even sure where I'd draw the line, myself, which is why I wanted to feel others out on their opinion.

It's also hard to come up with a unique physical description that isn't corny or cliche: we've all heard firey Latina, blonde bombshell, and even petite powerhouse before.

Just thinking of a way to sidestep the common questions about my ethnicity that inevitably come up, and position fair features and a thin build as *lightbulb goes on!* a good thing, as these are things that have gotten me turned down for a small handful of gigs in the past.

That being said, however, I am pitching for performance gigs, not for a spot in the new Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition.

Hmmmm....definitely an interesting conundrum.

*scratches head*

Would it be acceptable for you to write like an FAQ section about things that come up a lot? I feel like that might be the best way to directly address your looks, if that is an issue. However, I feel like if I were looking to hire someone, quality photos and video would swing my vote

Shira took the words out of my mouth - a picture is worth a thousand words. If the bio is on your site where you have opportunities to show pictures I don't see the need. (but also there is also nothing wrong with it).
In a bio in a different place I can see why someone would want to do that - although wording and emphasis is key. If you emphasize so much on your looks, someone might think you are stuck up on yourself, or if you are marking up your "liabilities" too much they might think you're insecure.
So I think subtlety is important and only say as much as is necesarry.

As far as why is Lisa doing this: there are so many things we have to think about when we present ourselves as professionals in the public world (online, especially). What is wrong with her asking for opinions and a conversation starting about how you would refer to yourself? or asking :would you and if so, how you would describe yourself, what kind of pictures you would post on your site, would you post your rates.... these have been discussed already and I don't see anything wrong with this topic.
I don't see her relating to the other topic at all.

Originally Posted by aamel_MirahAmmal

Queeny Glitterpants has really come into her own as a beautiful dancer and artist since losing that left arm? ..c::

Dude, you never cease to crack me up. Your wit and sincerity are always appreciated.

It did cross my mind that making an issue of the "looksy" stuff could backfire, which is why I sought the wise opinions of my peers before running with it. If I say "classic" instead of "fresh-faced suburbanite," that may read like saying "goddess size" instead of "festively plump." People might not really know how to take it.

Now that I'm in, like, my second semester of Girl School, I think a nice photoshoot is exactly what I need, with some attractive glamour makeup and all of my nice new costumes on display.

I'm very glad I asked, as I'm getting some great responses. Now, hopefully I won't have to lose an arm to enjoy a prosperous career in Oriental dance......l;,

~L.

I agree. A FAQ snippet might be *just* the appropriate place to cover that little ah... bugaboo without it having to be "up front and in their faces", which is where your photos will be instead. ..g.: If you are unsure regarding the language of your "copy", you can always post it here on Bhuz to get some feedback before you commit it to your website.

So many of these discussions are *very* enlightening for me - sometimes showing me things I'm doing generally correctly, things I may be off base on, and things I hadn't even considered (even after almost 30 years at this).

Originally Posted by indigostars

Would it be acceptable for you to write like an FAQ section about things that come up a lot? I feel like that might be the best way to directly address your looks, if that is an issue. However, I feel like if I were looking to hire someone, quality photos and video would swing my vote

Mirah Ammal has already written everything I was going to say.

Except:

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Just thinking of a way to sidestep the common questions about my ethnicity that inevitably come up

Does this really come up? I'm a pasty blonde, couldn't pass for middle eastern if my life depended on it. I've been dancing for 8 years, and questions of ethnicity have NEVER come up. Ever. Not for restaurants, parties, weddings. Ever.

(I do have pics on my site and links to youtube clips, so maybe that's why? Or because I don't use a stage name?)

Does it come up for other people? Is it a regional thing?

Hi Satin,

I'm confused. So help out here. I'm ASSUMING (I know it's bad)..l;, that there will be no pictures of you so you will need to give them a picture with words.

If you place lovely photos or videos of yourself, I don't think there would be a need to delineate yourself with flowery words. Maybe, JUST MAYBE you are over analyzing this situation. So what you have a mane of hair the color of gold and creamy colored skin.

I say post photos that show "you" and leave the decription for your dance history and mission. ..g.:

Tedi and Indigo - An FAQ is a great way to tackle the issue. Genius, ladies. *golf claps for all*

Q: What is your ethnicity? Don't you have to be Middle Eastern to bellydance?
A. I am an American girl of mixed European heritage. Though I don't have a Middle Eastern or Mediterranean bone in my body, I instantly gravitated toward the history, culture, costuming, and music that make bellydance so unique and fascinating. Though bellydance originated in the Middle East, it has been influenced by the art and aesthetics of several outside cultures, and continues to be cherished by men, women, and children all over the world.

(Or something like that!)

Lauren - I've only distinctly been "fired" from a gig due to ethnicity once, but I had an instructor who outwardly told me that I was too petite and American looking to make a lucrative career out of BD. I now know that this is patently untrue, seeing beautiful blondes such as Tanya, Shareen El Safy, Fathiem (and you!!!) who have gone on to do wonderful things in the bellydance world. Given responses on the "Exotic Features" thread, I think my worries about ethnicity are more based on things I was told by a closed-minded few than any universal hardship that blonde dancers face. Though I have heard of blondes in my community who have been turned down from local Turkish restaurants because of their hair color. Maybe this is true of certain "old-school" ethnic restaurant owners? I'd be very interested to hear other blonde dancers speak on the subject....

One more thought regarding height/petite-i-tude...

Speaking as a petite woman myself, unless it was referred to in a quote/testimonial that you really wanted to use for other reasons...I'd recommend forgoing any mention of your diminutive stature. Even in FAQs. Again, your photos will show your general body proportions (so they can see you're not wider than tall or whatever), and beyond that...unless the client specifies a height requirement for some kind of comercial gig, what will it ever matter??? It's not going to *help* you, anyway (unless there are a lot of people out east looking for bite sized dancers for tiiiiiny little venues?), and how tall you are has virtually nothing to do with how you appear in solo performance. People who see me first on stage then meet me up close later are often shocked by how small I am--they often tell me they were expecting a tall woman (on some occasions, they've even failed to recognize me because, they said, they were watching for someone taller.) ..l;,

A downside of being short/petite--and especially petite and relatively young--is that it can be a little bit of work to get people to take you as seriously as they ought to--not only in dance, but in other realms as well. Our culture tends to infantalize short people and perceive them as "cute" or younger/less able to take care of themselves. Add to that that our culture already also tends to infantalize women (compare how often you hear adult women called "girls"--even by men--in the media etc. with how often adult men are called "boys").... So why be the one to kick it off? Don't be ashamed of or hide from your size, but I see no reason to bring it up unless a client does--unless it's explicitly relevant to the gig or the client's needs/wants, it doesn't matter.

Now, though, if we are all going to go the route of using physical descriptions, can mine point out that Mirah Ammal is a tall buxom blond bombshell with flawless milky skin, long legs of perfectly formed alabaster, glittering green eyes, decoletage you could get lost in for hours and an a$$ that won't quit? Because, if I'm gonna have a physical description, it might as well be GOOD! (And hysterically contradictory to my photos...and I demand it include the phrase "a$$ that won't quit.")

Oops...getting punchy again ...bad Mirah. Naughty, naughty Mirah....

Originally Posted by Michelle75

I'm confused. So help out here. I'm ASSUMING (I know it's bad)..l;, that there will be no pictures of you so you will need to give them a picture with words.

Should have clarified. I DEFINITELY will post a gallery, so nobody thinks I'm missing any limbs or sprouting a third eye or otherwise just totally fug' ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

I just wanted to know if it would be redundant and/or tacky to mention your physical attributes in your bio if you already have pics.

I have never had anyone criticize my blonde hair, and to my knowldege I have never lost any gigs because of that.
I am saying "to my knowledge" because I'm sure people browsing through websites on the web looking for a dancer for their next party may have wrote me off because they were looking for a bellydancer with bellydancer looks (long, dark hair, maybe fair skin). But on the other hand some people may have choosen me because I look different.

What is plain for one person, maybe exotic to another. I have also heard on several occasions from Arabs that blonde is exotic to them, because they are used to dark hair.
I don't really think about this at all, and I am definitely not changing my hair for anyone.

Use nice, up-to-date photos and keep them guessing about your ethnicity. So many dancers in Cairo are Russians--blonde bombshells. To be honest, saying "classic good looks" sounds stuck up. I don't even know what that means anyway. I prefer descriptions of musicality and/or dance style--are you more upbeat and fun or more dramatic? That kind of thing tells me more about what you bring to the table. I don't care if you look like a model--the worst is when the description doesn't match the pix.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Does it come up for other people? Is it a regional thing?

The question comes up a lot for me, but more for the opposite reason: because I *am* dark and sort of "not from around here" looking (especially in Minnesota, land of nearly ubiquitous Scandinavian heritage) so I get the "what are you" question all the time...or just the assumption that I'm somehow RELATED to the owner/organizer of whatever Lebanese, Palestinian, Egyptian, Persian, or Greek venue I happen to be in.
..l;, ..l;, (That one always gets me--hard to imagine most Arabs, Persians, or even Greeks allowing a daughter or cousin to perform in their venues this way...but I digress.)

The blonder/more Euro-Am looking gals I talk to tend to get it more as "So, you're not Middle Eastern, right? How did you get involved in this?" Now THAT I can see being an appropriate thing to answer in an FAQ.

Yes, if I'm viewing your picture I would find it redundant to ALSO read a physical description of yourself.

Maybe, you could say something along the lines of, Don't let my Blonde hair and blue eyes fool you; I have ______ insert # of performacne under my belt and _____insert # of restaurant performances etc..... Use what you forsee to be a henderance to you as an advantage.

I confuse people sometimes even though I think I just look like a darker Caucasian. Regardless of your particulars, people always have something to say about it--height, weight, too pretty/not pretty enough, boobs, hair...

I'm very glad I asked. I knew the answers would probably go either way!

I think I'll stick to a nice classy set of promotional pics that highlight all my best attributes and make me feel like a movie star. Let the pictures do the talking, instead of doing the dirty work, myself.

"Lisa is as petite as a water nymph with glittering aquamarine eyes the size of a full moon, dark waist-length hair with caramel blonde peroxide-induced highlights, and an ass so round British scientists could use it to calculate pi!"

Yeah, thanks to your good advice, I think I'll pass ..l;,

Lisa, I can't believe you didn't mention you have a tamed unicorn that adds a special touch to your performances. Ohhhhh wait, that could be compared to donkeys in Tiajuana.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

Lisa, I can't believe you didn't mention you have a tamed unicorn that adds a special touch to your performances. Ohhhhh wait, that could be compared to donkeys in Tiajuana.

Yes, that's right. We wouldn't want to omit Rainbow Moonflower and risk him getting offended and posting a slanderous thread on Bhuz, and everybody else getting their panties in a bunch because they don't believe that I really have a tamed unicorn and that the said unicorn is running around telling everybody in the free world that I don't wear underpants! Heaven forbid!

So to avoid disaster and placate my mythical friend:

"Lisa has been known to ride onstage astride a glittering tamed unicorn named Rainbow Moonflower! Rainbow Moonflower was bred in the lap of luxury, fed ambrosia from the Greek gods, and groomed every fortnight with an emerald comb by generous Tibetan monks. Lisa purchased Rainbow Moonflower for a total of $17.5 million, shortly after moving into her 45,000 square-foot summer home in the Hamptons. Rainbow Moonflower is a faithful friend who provides Lisa with a ride to work when the Merritt Parkway is congested, a universal sign of prestige that translates to 'MAD MONEY' in every world language, and thousands of sparkly droppings. Ever wonder why Lisa wears such sparkly costumes? Yes, that's right. Each one is lovingly crafted by fairies and gnomes out of gleaming unicorn turds!"

I'm tempted to slip this into my copy and see if anybody notices...:zillevil:

..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

Girl, you are to much. ROFLMAO. You really are going to belly dance hell ya know?!?!

Originally Posted by mish_mish

I prefer descriptions of musicality and/or dance style--are you more upbeat and fun or more dramatic? That kind of thing tells me more about what you bring to the table. I don't care if you look like a model

That's my thought as well. I think a lot of the time (especially for the GP) we're hired in a large part because the client wants a pretty girl in a sexy costume at their party or event. While I accept that it's reality, I don't want to word my website in a way that feeds into or condones the mentality of hiring a dancer for physical attractiveness rather than skill.

Of course, after my gig from Hell, perhaps I *should* add a disclaimer on my website about my "tiny little tits". Something along the lines of, "Objects on this website may appear larger than they are." ..l;,