Thread: Two things: Travel Fees and age-ism

Hi Ladies.
I have two separate things going on that both warrant venting and advice.

One client wants me to come out to a birthday party, which is in a town in the middle of nowhere. I have it clearly stated on my Web site (and I told him in my quote) that I charge $0.50 per mile for all venues outside of the Triangle (my metro). All gigs for me in the triangle are a max of 30 miles each way...this gig is close to 60 miles, so double what I usually drive. I told him this and he said it sounded unreasonable...that he thought that since it is 30 miles outside of the Triangle, I should only charge the for the extra mileage of about 30 miles...as in 1/2 of what I asked for.

What do you think is fair? Is there room to negotiate here?

Second, I got a call from a restaurateur who wants me to dance on Friday night at his newly reopened restaurant (walking distant from my house). I've been wanting my own regular restaurant gig for awhile and the location is fantastic (no gas costs to consider)...Anyway, I don't take short notice gigs, but I told him I would be interested in dancing at the restaurant in the future as the regular dancer. He said he was looking for that and he also has another restaurant where he wants a dancer in a town about 20 minutes away. We have a meeting next week to check it out.

Soooo, then he says, "I just need to ask you one thing. How old are you?" I said, "26." And then he says "good," because the last dancer he hired was 62 and she had grey hair. I said, "Well hopefully she was a good dancer." And he said that no she wasn't, she fell down a few times and the audience didn't like it. Then he said that ever since then he always wants to know how old a dancer is before he hires them...meaning he wants someone young.

I mean I can't really be offended because it wasn't aimed at me (I'm just lucky to be young), but his blatant discrimination was off-putting. It seems that age-ism is just as big of a prejudice as weight-ism. I mean I know it is hard to age or gain weight in any performance/entertainment career...but I was thrown off by this...

Thoughts?

To the first situation: I think I'd tell him that his point is interesting and I can see why he might see it that way, but this is how my fee is calculated at this time. In other words, I'd concede that he has a point, but I wouldn't give in.

IF he pursued the conversation further, I'd say that if I were to calculate it his way, my mileage fee would be .10 per mile for every mile after the first 30. So the bottom line is the same. Either way, it's much less than the IRS gives you for a mileage deduction (what is that, about .40 per mile now?)

In the second situation -- it sucks. As an older & not-so-commercially thin dancer, I can say that it REALLY sucks. But -- welcome to showbiz. *shrugs*

Restaurant owners are 'casting' the part of a bellydancer, and their patrons have certain expectation. Sadly, dance skill isn't very high on the list of criteria for typical restaurant patrons (unless they're mostly Arabs). It's a happy bonus surprise to them if your dancing is impressive.

I have people wanting to book me out of town ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME. Most of them are understanding when you explain that you can't go 300 miles without a substantial charge, but I had one gal who wanted me to go 200 miles, and wouldn't take "it'll cost you" as an answer until I finally told her $450, and I'm doing you a favor. Geez, 7-1/2 hours driving (not my idea of a good time) plus performing - she probably was thinking like $50 or something...

Travel fees: of course, if the guy thinks the extra $$ is exorbitant, he doesn't have to buy . . . Then again, I avoid the whole thing by first asking the location of the gig, then calculating my fee, never mentioning I've added on a travel fee; it's just my price for performing in that location! Website would say, "from $$$"

Age-ism: I have been asked how old I am and I lie every time. (I've been 36 for many years now!) The problem is, I think I've come to believe it and I don't know how much longer I can be under 40 . . .

Continuing with age-ism: when folks seem to be fishin' for age, which usually implies they think they want a sweet young thing, I ask them straight out if they want a professional performer who looks good and who will give them a great, family-oriented, fun show for their guests. Most of the time, folks really do want someone with skill and professionalism and, as long as I look good (I can still pull that off), I have no problems fudging on my age.

Yes, I have tons of gray hair (take after my grandmother in graying early), but it's covered with a lovely shade of red that is nearly identical to my former natural color. I'm not 125 lbs anymore, and I'm more comfortable in a body stocking to hide the imperfections, but, for heaven's sake, I'm 5'9" and look really good in that body stocking!

Yes, restauranteurs seem to go for the younger dancers, but I have substituted in the past, and currently substitute elsewhere, for restaurants that seem to find me perfectly satisfactory, even at my "advanced age" dancing in a body stocking.

Another note on age-ism: some folks have expressed concern about age because in the past they, like andalee's restauranteur, have hired someone who did not, in any way, live up to the image of a professional dancer, regardless of the type of dancing involved. That I understand. They have no problem with me being a particular age, as long as I look the part -- which I do, for now. ..g.:

In any event, andalee -- don't cave! It's your price!

Deborah

I have a wig if people want me to wear it, but I get nothing but compliments on my old-person hair in real life so prefer to go with it if at all possible. That said, I'm not trying to get pro work; I'm 43, I have short white hair, I'm not skinny and frankly I can't be bothered tarting up and hanging round in toilets for $80-100 too often. I like doing haflas and school shows - I get all I need and can fit in from that at this stage.

Perhaps you've already done this but, re the prices - I think it's a good idea to set time aside to develop your own schedule of prices. Take time to really think about how much money you need to be happy doing a gig, and what's the price below which it's no longer worth it for you. Set your quote price for various types of gigs, travel and other surcharges, plus what you are willing to negotiate (eg: minimum price, charity discount). Type it up all official-like, put it next to the phone and stick to it! Then, when someone is trying to talk you down on the phone, remember that you've already gone through the reasoning and don't need to do it again. Your prices are set and that's that. It's now company policy, and you can't change it! If the customer doens't like it, well, they can always shop around for another dancer.

I've done such a price list for myself and I find it just gives me a psychological boost having it all in writing and well thought out - I can stick to my guns just that bit better and not regret negotiating as soon as I get off the phone.

PS - Ageism - totally sucks, but a reality of pro work (at least some of it). Given that we bellydancers age fantastically and look far younger than we are (..g.: ), perhaps we should let our lovely studio photos speak for us. A response to the age question could be "I'm in my early 30's (ha ha), but you can visit my website/see my business card for some recent photos. They give an accurate portrayal of how I look now." After all, once you're getting old, photos taken 5 years ago could be considered recent, couldn't they?!!

would it be appropriate to refer to pics (in media packet or website, recent of course!) and tell them, with a smile.........."you be the judge"? and hopefully have them like what they see.........

I've only been asked my age a couple of times during the booking process, and both were from people who hadn't seen my website yet. Instead of directly answering the question, I said some thing along the lines of, "With all the stage makeup and costuming, age can be really deceiving. I have a lot of photos on my website - they're all quite recent and reflect what I'll look like when I show up for the gig."

As for the age question, I agree with Ruta and Laura on this one. Don't tell them! You don't know what is too old or too young for them. Just skip to the visual aids.

Originally Posted by kamilia

As for the age question, I agree with Ruta and Laura on this one. Don't tell them! You don't know what is too old or too young for them. Just skip to the visual aids.

yeah, sometimes owners can be pretty tricky ,m:: , if you say you're 20 something, they won't take you seriously, try to get over on you, or if you're 40 something (even if you can seriously pull off 29), they'll all of a sudden envision lines you don't have, greys you don't have, etc.....and say 'no i'm sure you're experienced.......but.............'

we can be just as tricky, mwahahahaha............

re the travel fees: the 0.50 per mile can be confusing. He might have read 'plus 0.50 per mile 'outside the triangle' while you calculate 0.50 cent per mile traveled outside the triangle (so one mile to get there, and one mile back).

I quote a basic rate and add '+ travel expenses'. First of all, I don't like to travel after midnight, so if they insist on a late performance, I add a bit extra. Second, I always check the day/time of the performance. Traveling during rush hour will take me longer then when the roads are clear, and when there's a schoolholiday or national holiday starting/ending that day, I KNOW that the trip wil ltake twice as long. So destination is not the only factor. I calculate travel fees per case and keep notes next to the phone so I have them ready when they call a second time.

He signed the contract, paid the deposit and agreed to the travel fees. He just asked me to drive a different route! Which is fine because there really are two legitimate ways to get there--the one he asked me to take is a few miles shorter (but may take longer because of lights). The show is early 7:00, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Oh and as for the restaurant owner. He asked me to send him pictures via e-mail. I sent him my youtube clips, website and resume too. Hopefully that will convince him. :)

Originally Posted by kamilia

As for the age question, I agree with Ruta and Laura on this one. Don't tell them! You don't know what is too old or too young for them. Just skip to the visual aids.

I agree, too, although I alluded differently in my previous post. I haven't given out my age (real or imaginary!) in quite some time . . .

Deborah

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

He signed the contract, paid the deposit and agreed to the travel fees. He just asked me to drive a different route! Which is fine because there really are two legitimate ways to get there--the one he asked me to take is a few miles shorter (but may take longer because of lights). The show is early 7:00, so it shouldn't be a problem.

That's great, andalee! Go out and have a great time!

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

I agree, too, although I alluded differently in my previous post. I haven't given out my age (real or imaginary!) in quite some time . . .

Deborah

Some people don't think it's possible to hide an age. Some former bedfellows never knew my age (though my fiancé figured it out...). I also don't know how old one of my best friends is.

It's a personal question, you don't have to tell anyone!