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  1. #1
    Official BHUZzer Shaunte's Avatar
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    All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I've always refused from the beginning due in large part to the implications. I even once had a booking request from a mother for her 16 year old son's birthday party. I declined that as well, because I just didn't feel that they would be mature enough for that. I just came across a clip on you tube with a very beautiful dancer who was dancing nicely at an all-male event, but something about it made me feel a little icky, especially when they started stuffing money in her costume. It also confirmed why I will never do an all male event. I'm curious what everyone else thinks......
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-S6Vwv4zfo]YouTube - Egyptian Belly Dance[/ame]
    Last edited by Shaunte; 04-29-2008 at 02:50 AM.


  2. #2
    Advanced BHUZzer Bellydancefanatic's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I wouldn't even call this an event. By the looks of this, it was a house call, like a Bachelor's party or something. Personally, I would not dance at this kind of setting. I've seen an all male gig at at a restaurant in my area (well, until we got there. I also danced, but by invitation) and it was okay. But I could still somewhat tell the dancer was uncomfortable, though she did a flirtatious cane dance at the end. Yeah, I agree. This video makes me feel icky, too.


  3. #3
    Advanced BHUZzer Bellydancefanatic's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Looking at this again, this is actually quite scary!


  4. #4
    I could get used to this! Varuza's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I would be very uncomfortable in that situation, but if she wasn't, that's the important thing. I really wonder, though: who taped it and who put it up on You Tube? It's definitely icky if one of the guys did, which is what it looks like. Ugh. I really hope they had her permission for that, but I rather doubt it.

    I should note though: my first thought upon reading the subject line was "Why not have a gig with only male bellydancers?"


  5. #5
    Official BHUZzer Shaunte's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Sorry, I meant to say gig....Even in a restaurant setting I think I would also be uncomfortable. When it's just men, I think it changes the dynamics completely.


  6. #6
    Advanced BHUZzer Bellydancefanatic's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I think some Bellydancers are uncomfortable with performing with all men in the audience because of the ancient history. The dance is very sisterly and communal. Even though dancers danced for men too, women would dance for each other. It's a women's dance mostly (no offense AT ALL to the male dancers. I salute and respect you), so I think it's natural to feel a little uncomfortable. Then, I hate to say it, but it could also be connecting sex to the dance (talking about the men of course). That possibility makes me uncomfortable. I prefer a mixed, mature crowd. I couldn't do an all male performance in an intimate environment.

    This is all just my opinion!


  7. #7
    Ultimate BHUZzer meissoun's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I have done several gigs with male-only audiences. Football clubs, bachelor parties, a men's association with over 100 members....
    Few times I was booked through the restaurant and only found out when I arrived that there were only men in the audience.

    You people out there who think that men automatically turn into monsters when there's no woman around to stop them: It's not true.

    Every single time they were well behaved and appreciated the show.
    Even the hobby footballers (soccer, you know ) who were a bit drunk towards midnight were funny but never icky.

    I have met several drunken, stupid idiots during my gigs but strangely, it was always during mixed-gender events, family parties (!) etc.

    If you feel unconfortable, bring a bodyguard, but really, most of the time men's parties are quite tame.

    MEISSOUN


  8. #8
    Master BHUZzer norma's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I've frequently danced at all male events. Mostly at restaurants/halls so I felt very secure as I knew the venue. Only once did I ever do a bachelor party and I screened them extensively before I accepted. It was a small group of engineers who were very conservative and did not want anything wild. They were very sweet and polite. However, as a general rule I do avoid that type of event. I've frequently been hired for Indian parties, by the wife, only to arrive and find the men and women segregated.

    I found that if you come across like a lady and expect to be treated as such and your dancing reflects that you shouldn't have any problems. Even in a mixed audience you always run the risk of some drunk person misbehaving.

    I do however prefer a mixed audience. In general I think women just appreciate belly dancing more.


  9. #9
    Ultimate BHUZzer artemisia_danst's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    i was going to post something, but meissoun said it better
    really, it all depends, i've done a few all male gigs and they were fine. i've been more uncomfortable in some mixed gender situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by meissoun View Post
    I have done several gigs with male-only audiences. Football clubs, bachelor parties, a men's association with over 100 members....
    Few times I was booked through the restaurant and only found out when I arrived that there were only men in the audience.

    You people out there who think that men automatically turn into monsters when there's no woman around to stop them: It's not true.

    Every single time they were well behaved and appreciated the show.
    Even the hobby footballers (soccer, you know ) who were a bit drunk towards midnight were funny but never icky.

    I have met several drunken, stupid idiots during my gigs but strangely, it was always during mixed-gender events, family parties (!) etc.

    If you feel unconfortable, bring a bodyguard, but really, most of the time men's parties are quite tame.

    MEISSOUN


  10. #10
    Advanced BHUZzer jewelbellydance's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Personally, I thought the guys in this video were very well behaved. They sat back and enjoyed the show, a few got up to dance, but never too close, they tucked in their tips without going the grope, just tucked them in and then gave her space. So I didn't see any concerning behaviour.

    Having said that, I can't help feeling very claustrophobic watching this footage- it's a small enclosed space with only men surrounding the dancer. I wouldn't do this gig, because it's the sort of space where, if the guys weren't well behaved, you could potentially end up in trouble. I think there's a certain vulnerability and fear that we can feel as women, from just the potential of harrassment, that a guy isn't likely to feel. I don't want to feel that while dancing so personally I don't accept male-only gigs...even if in reality they might be just fine.
    Last edited by jewelbellydance; 04-29-2008 at 06:27 AM.


  11. #11
    Ultimate BHUZzer artemisia_danst's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    i dont like 'living room' gigs generally...


  12. #12
    Ultimate BHUZzer lizajuk's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    This film has been on O.dancer net and I thought and I still think it looks like a set up to show off the dancer. I don't think all male gigs are a good idea at all but a dancer knows best how she can handle a situation and I know friends who had a terrible time in a restaurant thanks to a load of drunken women! At least guys aren't gonna be bitchy!
    Well Ok some but mostly not.


  13. #13
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Zumarrad's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I think some Bellydancers are uncomfortable with performing with all men in the audience because of the ancient history. The dance is very sisterly and communal. Even though dancers danced for men too, women would dance for each other. It's a women's dance mostly (no offense AT ALL to the male dancers. I salute and respect you), so I think it's natural to feel a little uncomfortable. Then, I hate to say it, but it could also be connecting sex to the dance (talking about the men of course). That possibility makes me uncomfortable. I prefer a mixed, mature crowd. I couldn't do an all male performance in an intimate environment.
    To me it has nothing to do with sisterhood and everything to do with the possibility of gang rape.


  14. #14
    Master BHUZzer Jaseena's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Quote Originally Posted by zumarrad View Post
    To me it has nothing to do with sisterhood and everything to do with the possibility of gang rape.
    That's when you bring a man as a body guard. Maybe too much watching of the "Lifetime" TV is happening here? I would have to agree with the other two, I don't see anything wrong with all male parties but you would have to ensure that it would be on the "up and up" -no frat boyz mentality, imo.


  15. #15
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Zumarrad's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Maybe too much watching of the "Lifetime" TV is happening here?
    Uh, I don't have Lifetime. We do not have it my land. We do, however, have gangs, and you don't want to know what Black Power and the Mongrel Mob do to women who go to their parties. And frankly, men in packs act very much like dogs, and it's just not worth it. Sorry.

    Really, the fact one might need a man as a body guard speaks volumes. No all male gigs for me, ever.


  16. #16
    Advanced BHUZzer shimmygoddess's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I have never danced at an all male gig either...probably mostly out of respect to my husband.


  17. #17
    Ultimate BHUZzer artemisia_danst's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    "out of respect to my husband"

    what do you think the rest of us do at these gigs ?


  18. #18
    Ultimate BHUZzer artemisia_danst's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    in my town their is a club for men that turn 50 that year. they save up all year to go on holiday together (with their wives). they have social events together, do charities, go to the pub, etc
    i danced at one of their parties, cause they'd chosen to go to egypt that year. really it was NO different from other GP gigs.


  19. #19
    Established BHUZzer LeylaFahada's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Quote Originally Posted by artemisia_danst View Post
    "out of respect to my husband"

    what do you think the rest of us do at these gigs ?
    I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I know that my boyfriend would be uncomfortable if I did all-male gigs b/c he worries for my safety. So out of respect for his level of comfort, I wouldn't do them unless he came with me and was cool with it. It has everything to do with the dynamic of our relationship and nothing to do with the way I dance or behave.

    It's true that men don't automatically turn into monsters, but all people are subject to mob mentality and some groups are inherently disrespectful of women. It can be very intimidating to be alone with a large group of men and women, both physically and culturally (speaking very generally of my experiences in the US), are subject to dangers that men are not. Whether or not a dancer decides to dance AM parties or not, she needs to be careful, aware, and prepared.


  20. #20
    Ultimate BHUZzer artemisia_danst's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Quote Originally Posted by LeylaFahada View Post
    she needs to be careful, aware, and prepared.
    that i agree with 100%
    i call it the danger -radar. most of the time it already works over the phone and then i'm suddenly not available anymore and dont know anyone else that would be either (i've only needed my radar once or twice).

    i'm just saying, not all "all male" gigs are necessarily gigs where my radar goes off; i've done a few, and they were fine;

    and the one or two times I HAVE been treated with disrespect... there were women in the audience and that didnt make any difference.


  21. #21
    Master BHUZzer Adishakti's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I have "no bachelor parties" listed on my website because this sort of event is generally men gone wild and looking to "sex up" the evening and generally get out of control. (Women are no different at bachelorette parties in regards to men). It's the mindset of the entertainment of the evening and I wouldn't want to be made to feel dirty. Certainly, I would NOT ever do an all male party in someone's living room, regardless of the nature. The girl in this video is behaving perfectly respectable, but watching it gave me the creeps because of its intimate nature.

    That said, I wouldn't rule out an all-male event entirely. It's something I'd consider on an individual basis and would have a discussion with the person hiring me to ensure the men were kept in line and spell out what I am, and am not offering. I'd also make it clear that my husband would be joining me (and he would)!

    I think both Meissoun and Zumarrad have valid points here. Men aren't monsters... but walking into a potentially dangerous situation isn't smart either.

    Like most venues - I think it's wise to bring someone with you. I don't think an all male party hiring a dancer is looking for a cultural evening. You have to be comfortable partying it up with them and being a little sexy! Let's face it - half the people hiring belly dancers are looking for that. You'd be fooling yourself if you thought every person hiring you was doing so to add some culture to their event. (All male party or not).


  22. #22
    Ultimate BHUZzer steffib's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I also suspect that there is a bit of a cultural divide here, as suggested by Adishakti, Meissoun and Artemisia come from Europe (and from two countries that are reputed to be peaceful and multicultural and progressive). Bachelor parties in the US are something that doesn't make too much sense to my European side ;-) I believe it has something to do with the sadly still present puritanical roots in the US. (I am afraid I am struggling to express that coherently, so I'll just assume everybody knows what I mean.)

    I would probably stay away from US bachelor parties myself, but I would not hesitate to do something like the over-50 club that Artemisia mentioned. It's not the fact that it's men only, it's the context that comes with the specific event.


  23. #23
    Established BHUZzer LeylaFahada's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Quote Originally Posted by Adishakti View Post
    Like most venues - I think it's wise to bring someone with you. I don't think an all male party hiring a dancer is looking for a cultural evening. You have to be comfortable partying it up with them and being a little sexy! Let's face it - half the people hiring belly dancers are looking for that. You'd be fooling yourself if you thought every person hiring you was doing so to add some culture to their event. (All male party or not).
    Great point! It would be wonderful if everyone hiring us was interested in broadening his or her horizons, but I know that the teenage boys that whipped out their camera phones the other night were probably not excited to get cultural images to appreciate with their friends. One of the opportunities we have though is to show that sexy does not mean sleazy, but not everyone is willing to see the light.

    Besides, when it comes to my safety, I'd rather secretly assume that everyone is a horrible monster and be wrong than the other way around. Especially b/c my creep radar is pretty awful!


  24. #24
    Master BHUZzer Lilaravena's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    what defines an "all-male" event? I mean, what if there were 15 men and 2 women. Would it be considered all male? I try and ask ratios as much as possible. That way - I am not getting someone saying "it is a mix" only to find out that it is way off balance. Just something to throw out there...


  25. #25
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. anala's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    I had a request for one of my dancers (young, pretty, with a big snake) to do a going away party (in a home) for a German Air Force member. Male only, as this was a group of bachelor friends that hung out together, just because they were all single and almost all the Gremans that are deployed here are with families. So...I wasnt all thay comfy, but my dancer really needed the money. I went with her, as did a German troupe member whos job it was to not speak, but to evesdrop on the conversations of the men (just because you cant understand the abuse doesnt mean you havent been verbally abused). They were perfect gentlemen, and after the gig...my spy reported that they were perfect gentlemen in speach as well. We dont take tips in our belts here..it is a policy that I am firm about. I will now do all male parties if I have 2 troupe members (I must be one of them) as well as the dancer. The 2 older women are to dress in full coverage folkloric garb and carry swords. They stand in the corner with the swords and their job is to smile sweetly and make lots of eye contact.


  26. #26
    Established BHUZzer Candi's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??



  27. #27
    Master BHUZzer Adishakti's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Quote Originally Posted by Candi View Post
    I never have anybody go with me to any gig.In my mind I'm going to work.This is my job.
    Oh, I think there are some exceptions. I did a baby shower on Sunday and didn't have anyone accompany me.... if there were regular restaurant work here, I'd probably settle with having a member of the wait staff accompany me to my vehicle, etc... but for the most part, I don't think walking into a questionable situation by yourself is a good idea. Better safe than sorry...


  28. #28
    Official BHUZzer DeborahDances's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    In the case of the dancer in the video I think there are other things that we don't know about. There are other videos of the dancer in the same place on a different day (I'm assuming - different costume, hairstyle and different guests or the same guys in different clothes I didn't pay attention). And this time they are putting tips in the cups and front of her bra.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYzFsFLV7zk&feature=related"]YouTube - Belly dance[/ame]

    I danced for an all male fathers day event at a nursing home. What stands out the most from that day was how uninterested most of the old men were but when we walked past the ladies who weren't allowed in they kept asking us when we would come back and dance for them!
    Last edited by DeborahDances; 04-29-2008 at 10:30 AM.


  29. #29
    Master BHUZzer zamora's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    well, it depends on ...once again..where you are !
    we do all male partys, but every generation is there.even bachalor parties have changed.usually a sports theme, card playing, the grand and great grand dad.
    we are picky! we will not book the dancer after 1 hr and a half into the party.we have the name of the person in charge.we have a driver.
    i think it is just differant with ethnic people. also, where we are, a dancer can get fired if they insult the customer by not accepting their tips.
    we fing it very educational as to what is kosher where.


  30. #30
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. anala's Avatar
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    Re: All Male Gigs-Does anyone here accept them??

    Now..picture the same scene..no tips, no touching, and 2 old broads in the corner with swords. Changes the whole balance of power, yes?


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