Thread: ah man what if the hula dancers are free?

i know the owner of a restaurant out here (it's not mid east) and the subject has come up for me to dance (gulp its been a while but i have been dinking around again and it feels good..funny dance is like a bike you dont forget to ride)

anyways i brought up reimbursement for time and travel etc and explained about bellydancers etc. he didnt say no but he pointed out all the live bands that play there, and the hula dancers that frequent with performances, don't get paid but they are allowed to advertise for private parties and what not ..i talked to a couple of the hula dancers and she told me it's been well worth the party gigs that her and her partner are booked for

wwyd?

maybe i can start teaching again and arrange a student night so it mutually benefits everyone..

Why shouldn't you get paid professional rates?

Jesennia-

I used to live on the Big Island and especially in Hilo they almost NEVER pay their dancers.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

I used to live on the Big Island and especially in Hilo they almost NEVER pay their dancers.

*Twighlight Zone music plays*

Is Hawaii some sort of weird parallel universe?

Do they pay their doctors, waiters, lawyers, and construction workers in foodstuff or intangibles such as "exposure," too?

If *no one's* getting paid, I guess it wouldn't be undercutting or even damaging to the current BD scene to dance for free. But personally, I value my work and time more than that, and would not dance for free in a restaurant setting.

Just because an owner won't pay you under these circumstances, doesn't mean they're trying to screw you over. If the going rate for that kind of gig in your area is $0.00, then that's what it is. But if the going rate doesn't make it worth my while to put together a set, get all dolled up and dance my butt off for 20 minutes, then I'm under no obligation to accept it.

Originally Posted by laura 2

But if the going rate doesn't make it worth my while to put together a set, get all dolled up and dance my butt off for 20 minutes, then I'm under no obligation to accept it.

Right. Also, with gas prices at $4/gallon, you're essentially paying to dance unless the venue's in your backyard.

Do it if the place looks like a great networking opportunity or a hell of a good time, but I wouldn't feel much motivation otherwise to kill an evening sans compensation.

I wouldn't do it. Because of the adage "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

Also a great way to make ethical decisions (which are ALWAYS tough) is to ask yourself the question 'What if everyone did it?' What happens if everyone agrees to dance for free? What would happen if everyone refused to dance for free?

I'd rather busk in the street for tips than bring paying customers into a restaurant.

Personally, I think student nights shouldn't be in public venues. Too many people will only get one chance to see bellydance and form an opinion of it, they shouldn't be seeing someone's first or second solo. Just my opinion...

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'd rather busk in the street for tips than bring paying customers into a restaurant.

I agree. I'll ask myself what else I could do with the same time if I don't do it - rehearse my own stuff (there's never enough time when you're teaching!), work on lesson plans for upcoming classes, finally watch that DVD I paid $40 for that's been collecting dust, work on my website or other marketing materials, etc. All of those things are also unpaid, but I think they provide a more valuable use of my time than helping someone else make money for *their* business.

ITA with Lauren, here.

It can take hours to prepare even for a very small set, then you factor in time spent at the venue waiting and performing, and travel expenses. Though dancing is lots of fun, it's still WORK, and therefore, not something I recommend doing for free.

And BIG thumbs up to Laura's comment about not wanting to help restaurant owners advertise for free.

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Has anyone from the BD community discussed the issue with the Hula community? I'm just wondering if there's a reason why they dance for free or if someone could suggest that the dancers work together on improving conditions.

It's funny, come to think of it. I just started taking hula lessons (I LOVE learning hula, BTW) and asked my instructor if she gets inundated with requests for luaus in the summer. She told me that she and her troupe mainly stick to non-paid community type events. Though she stressed her reason that a lot of party gigs are out of state or far away, it still makes me wonder if the hula community doesn't place as much emphasis on the same kind of gigs we seek. Maybe they're bigger on performing at parks, art galleries, campus theaters, and recitals than at parties, restaurants and other paid events?

Seasoned hula dancers, feel free to chime in.

If this is the case, then hopefully my uber capitalism will be a positive influence on the local hula community, when I'm ready to start performing. ..g.:

Jes, this is what I would try. Can't guarantee it would work, but I'd try it. I'd tell the restaurant owner:

"Well, I'm not surprised they're willing to dance for free. After all, this island is saturated with so many hula dancers and students that there just aren't enough performance opportunities to satisfy all of them. And, there are so many places to go for people who want to see a hula show, that offering yet another one wouldn't really differentiate you from all the other establishments that offer entertainment.

"However, I'm proposing to offer you something entirely different. I'm suggesting that you offer a professional-quality show featuring an experienced entertainer in a dance form entirely different from what everyone else offers. If you book me to perform, your restaurant could be interesting both to hula-weary tourists and to locals who are interested in a taste of a culture from the other side of the world."

Like I say, I can't guarantee it'll work, but it wouldn't cost much to try it, so I'd probably go for it!

If, as Brea says, there's a local stigma attached to belly dancing, you could always describe it as "Middle Eastern" or "Near Eastern" dance to avoid the stigma.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

It's funny, come to think of it. I just started taking hula lessons (I LOVE learning hula, BTW) and asked my instructor if she gets inundated with requests for luaus in the summer. She told me that she and her troupe mainly stick to non-paid community type events. Though she stressed her reason that a lot of party gigs are out of state or far away, it still makes me wonder if the hula community doesn't place as much emphasis on the same kind of gigs we seek. Maybe they're bigger on performing at parks, art galleries, campus theaters, and recitals than at parties, restaurants and other paid events?

Seasoned hula dancers, feel free to chime in.

If this is the case, then hopefully my uber capitalism will be a positive influence on the local hula community, when I'm ready to start performing. ..g.:

Seasoned hula performer here - chiming in. In the Islands, EVERYBODY dances hula. It's often a family thing and there are halaus (hula schools) under every palm tree. They probably don't charge a fee for restaurant gigs because they're just breaking into the paid gigs circuit so the networking and exposure for a halau in a restaurant is worth the time and money. However, belly dancers aren't a dime a dozen, and I agree a restaurant performer should get paid. I wouldn't expect to get a "going rate" equivalent to a good restaurant gig here on the mainland, but certainly a fair rate.

As for hula performances - here in the Chicago area anyway - I don't know of any seasoned performance group that doesn't command top dollar for any gig, depending on the number of performers asked for, and length of time of the show, and other factors. My group, The Hawaiian Style Entertainers, has a set rate for a pro show of 45 minutes to an hour in length (corporate events, private functions, etc.), and a slightly different rate for a pro/student show (mostly for community events or the nursing home circuit). There are very few opportunities for restaurant gigs. In fact, I only know of one restaurant in this area now that has Polynesian entertainers, and if I'm not mistaken, the owner is the instructor/artistic director and uses her own dancers. There used to be several restaurants that had regular weekend shows (I started out at the old Shanghai Lil's - anyone remember that place?), and a couple of places that had shows monthly, but they're all gone now. So restaurant work really doesn't factor into our marketing. We target the senior communities, large community events, assisted living/nursing homes, libraries, etc. And we're busy from May through November mostly. Because we've been around for a long time - over 10 years - a lot of our business comes from referrals.

Hope that helps . . .

Originally Posted by rachelw

Has anyone from the bellydance community discussed the issue with the Hula community? I'm just wondering if there's a reason why they dance for free or if someone could suggest that the dancers work together on improving conditions.

I know many people in the hula communities, and that kind of a suggestion would not be well-received. I'm sure they feel that their conditions don't need improving. This is the way it's done. To be in a halau is to make a life committment to the kumu hula (teacher), and the kumu makes all of the decisions for his/her students concerning when, where, and how they dance. If they get paid, the fee would most likely go to pay the halau's expenses, not to the individual.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Jes, this is what I would try. Can't guarantee it would work, but I'd try it. I'd tell the restaurant owner:

"Well, I'm not surprised they're willing to dance for free. After all, this island is saturated with so many hula dancers and students that there just aren't enough performance opportunities to satisfy all of them. And, there are so many places to go for people who want to see a hula show, that offering yet another one wouldn't really differentiate you from all the other establishments that offer entertainment.

"However, I'm proposing to offer you something entirely different. I'm suggesting that you offer a professional-quality show featuring an experienced entertainer in a dance form entirely different from what everyone else offers. If you book me to perform, your restaurant could be interesting both to hula-weary tourists and to locals who are interested in a taste of a culture from the other side of the world."

Like I say, I can't guarantee it'll work, but it wouldn't cost much to try it, so I'd probably go for it!

If, as Brea says, there's a local stigma attached to belly dancing, you could always describe it as "Middle Eastern" or "Near Eastern" dance to avoid the stigma.

Your suggestion is a good one, Shira, and certainly worth a try. Go for it, Jes, and good luck!

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mahalo for the feedback

i'm not looking to dance as a profession by any means so I won't be moving to another area any time soon with hopes of performing anytime soon

Donnadiva thanks for your input as well

I'm certainly in no position to try to encourage a community of hula dancers to get paid.

BreaMorgaine yes its certainly not the brochure paradise..I loved Oahu at first but after a while the drugs and traffic got to me so we moved here. It's not perfection but we are pretty simple..we just like to hang outside and go to the beach. I'm fine visiting tourists and fancy resorts on Kona side and then come back over here to the green and flowers. We are lucky , we live in a really beautiful neighborhood. Might just be my honeymoon phase with Pahoa..it certainly isnt perfect but I love it and would rather be here, dealing with the problems the island faces, than anywhere else. I tried to move back to Arizona and couldnt last three months. I wouldnt even go back to California now. If Hawaii doesnt work I suppose we'll have to look for another island..we are done with the mainland.

And I'm glad I dont have to seek out dance opps here..it is something that came up and i'd like to dance again but it certainly isnt much of a priority..getting all dolled up would be fun, dancing again would be fun..etc

yup I know Abby at JL:)

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Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

It's funny, come to think of it. I just started taking hula lessons (I LOVE learning hula, BTW) and asked my instructor if she gets inundated with requests for luaus in the summer. She told me that she and her troupe mainly stick to non-paid community type events. Though she stressed her reason that a lot of party gigs are out of state or far away, it still makes me wonder if the hula community doesn't place as much emphasis on the same kind of gigs we seek. Maybe they're bigger on performing at parks, art galleries, campus theaters, and recitals than at parties, restaurants and other paid events?

Seasoned hula dancers, feel free to chime in.

If this is the case, then hopefully my uber capitalism will be a positive influence on the local hula community, when I'm ready to start performing. ..g.:

Although not a hula-er myself, I've known a woman and her husband who do put on hula/polynesian/similar genre shows (complete with band) and it is a big part of their livelihood; it's what they do and they are paid for it. Of course, this is California, not Hawai'i . . .

Deborah