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  1. #1
    Master BHUZzer Lilaravena's Avatar
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    When is a vendor fee too much?

    I have been "inquiring" about some events to vend and most of the fees have been reasonable. I was wondering though......What is too much? I know that is all comes down to what you sell vs the advertising vs etc. Do you have a $$ limit on vending fees?


  2. #2
    I could get used to this! CharisseZohara's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    I think it really depends on the size of the event / expected crowds... And some big events that I've participated in outside of the bellydance community charge much higher vending fees, as in hundreds of dollars for a single day's event... So far I haven't bumped into my "whoah nelly" limit :D

    What is the context of your question--how much to charge at an event, or how much to pay?


  3. #3
    Master BHUZzer Lilaravena's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    well, I have always been fortunate to vend great events and pay a reasonable vending fee. I have never vended for Rakkasah but often wondered what an event like that costs to vend?

    I am sure all those vendors make their money back and more but I am just wondering if vendors do put limits.


  4. #4
    Master BHUZzer Lilaravena's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    all in all - curious to know what these big ass events charge as a vending fee. I am a vendor :-)


  5. #5
    Mega BHUZzer theesfield's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    There absolutely has to be a limit to your vendor fees, but I dont think it can be just a flat dollar amount. There are may things that you have to factor in:
    Location (how much gas will it cost you to get there)
    Date (is it up against another event that might slit the crowd draw)
    Ammenities (does it include tables & tablecloths or do you have to bring your own, some event coordinators offer a complimentary or discounted meal, some offer a show ticket, will you have to get a hotel room?)
    Time (how long is the event lasting, did they schedule in time for participants to shop?)

    I just did an event where the event coordinator changed her mind, and instead of $x for extra tables, she demanded $x per day once I was already set up. Then she demanded that I puchase my own show ticket or else I would have to leave my merchandise in the room while the show was taking place. When I asked her who would watch my merch, she said it was not her responsiblility and then when she originally told us that our merch can be stored in the room overnight for the next workshop the following day, she once again changed her mind and said that our merch has to be taken back to our hotel rooms with us and re set up at 6:30am the next day. I quitely packed up my souk and drove 6 hours back home. I did not return the next day like I was supposed to.

    So, it varies with each event. But yes, set alimit..there are vendor fees that are just way too much.

    Nilaja


  6. #6
    Mega BHUZzer theesfield's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    I have paid over $450 for 1 space for a 2 day event. That would be my :too much" limit.

    Nilaja


  7. #7
    Master BHUZzer Lilaravena's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    wow - that sounds horrible! Sounds as if that coordinator was not coordinated at all! I would have done the same - just left. She is gonna have a blast trying to book vendors for next year - ha ha.

    I can imagine having to pack up all my stuff only to put it out again. Time and energy does have a value to me. I try and factor all that in when vending. What is fee, gas, my time, size of the event, etc.


  8. #8
    Kimahri
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by theesfield View Post
    There absolutely has to be a limit to your vendor fees, but I dont think it can be just a flat dollar amount. There are may things that you have to factor in:
    Location (how much gas will it cost you to get there)
    Date (is it up against another event that might slit the crowd draw)
    Ammenities (does it include tables & tablecloths or do you have to bring your own, some event coordinators offer a complimentary or discounted meal, some offer a show ticket, will you have to get a hotel room?)
    Time (how long is the event lasting, did they schedule in time for participants to shop?)

    I just did an event where the event coordinator changed her mind, and instead of for extra tables, she demanded per day once I was already set up. Then she demanded that I puchase my own show ticket or else I would have to leave my merchandise in the room while the show was taking place. When I asked her who would watch my merch, she said it was not her responsiblility and then when she originally told us that our merch can be stored in the room overnight for the next workshop the following day, she once again changed her mind and said that our merch has to be taken back to our hotel rooms with us and re set up at 6:30am the next day. I quitely packed up my souk and drove 6 hours back home. I did not return the next day like I was supposed to.

    So, it varies with each event. But yes, set alimit..there are vendor fees that are just way too much.

    Nilaja

    O...M...G...I am so sorry you had to deal with that!! ,m::

    ~~Kimahri


  9. #9
    Master BHUZzer casbahdance's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by theesfield View Post
    in:

    I just did an event where the event coordinator changed her mind, and instead of for extra tables, she demanded per day once I was already set up. Then she demanded that I puchase my own show ticket or else I would have to leave my merchandise in the room while the show was taking place. When I asked her who would watch my merch, she said it was not her responsiblility and then when she originally told us that our merch can be stored in the room overnight for the next workshop the following day, she once again changed her mind and said that our merch has to be taken back to our hotel rooms with us and re set up at 6:30am the next day. I quitely packed up my souk and drove 6 hours back home. I did not return the next day like I was supposed to.


    Nilaja
    Actually, if you had a contract with this "coordinator," she was in breach! You cannot change the contents of a contract without the consent/approval of both parties, unless the change benefits the one doing the paying!

    For yourself, everything has to be in writing: from what time to set up, to where you can store your goods, to show logistics, to how much you pay for your space -- I cannot believe anybody would pull these kinds of stunts!

    These are not "little misunderstandings" -- these are real problems that would keep me from going back as a vendor.

    Deborah
    Last edited by casbahdance; 05-05-2008 at 03:07 PM. Reason: hit the submit button a bit early!


  10. #10
    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    I hear it is $1400 for a place at Ahlan wa Sahlan this year. Dont expect to do much haggleing girls! .w.:


  11. #11
    Master BHUZzer Lilaravena's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    OMG! $1400 is insane! Here I am whining about $300-400 for 2 days and these people have to pay in the thousands!!


  12. #12
    Mega BHUZzer theesfield's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by casbahdance View Post
    Actually, if you had a contract with this "coordinator," she was in breach! You cannot change the contents of a contract without the consent/approval of both parties, unless the change benefits the one doing the paying!

    For yourself, everything has to be in writing: from what time to set up, to where you can store your goods, to show logistics, to how much you pay for your space -- I cannot believe anybody would pull these kinds of stunts!

    These are not "little misunderstandings" -- these are real problems that would keep me from going back as a vendor.

    Deborah

    I had her e-mail in writing. I pulled it out when the argument went down. She just became agitated and started yelling. Saying "well, next time, I just wont have vendors!" Her assistant spun on her heels and just walked away so we could talk to the back of her head. You culd not work with this woman and I hate confrontation. When I told her that her e-mail does not state that extra tables were $X PER DAY. .. Her arguement was "It doesn't state that extra tables are $X for the entire weekend either!" (it also doesn't state that tables were $X per hour, or per linear foot according to her reasoning) She said this is what the hotel was charging her. When I asked to speak to the hotel person in charge she said that all questions to the hotel have to go through her first. I felt I had no other recourse but to pack up and leave. You should also know that there was another vendor there who did not get this treatement. She was not asked to take down her souk for the day, she was not asked to buy a ticket and she was not asked to pay for extra tables on a per day basis. But me and my next door vendor were treated this way. (we both left that night) I will never go back and if there are any midwest vendors in the area who would like a heads up warning about this particular event coordinator, then e-mail me.. I will gladly give you her name. Because her 2009 event is already on the books and taking registration.

    Nilaja


  13. #13
    Master BHUZzer casbahdance's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by theesfield View Post
    I had her e-mail in writing. I pulled it out when the argument went down. She just became agitated and started yelling. Saying "well, next time, I just wont have vendors!" Her assistant spun on her heels and just walked away so we could talk to the back of her head. You culd not work with this woman and I hate confrontation. When I told her that her e-mail does not state that extra tables were PER DAY. .. Her arguement was "It doesn't state that extra tables are for the entire weekend either!" (it also doesn't state that tables were per hour, or per linear foot according to her reasoning) She said this is what the hotel was charging her. When I asked to speak to the hotel person in charge she said that all questions to the hotel have to go through her first. I felt I had no other recourse but to pack up and leave. You should also know that there was another vendor there who did not get this treatement. She was not asked to take down her souk for the day, she was not asked to buy a ticket and she was not asked to pay for extra tables on a per day basis. But me and my next door vendor were treated this way. (we both left that night) I will never go back and if there are any midwest vendors in the area who would like a heads up warning about this particular event coordinator, then e-mail me.. I will gladly give you her name. Because her 2009 event is already on the books and taking registration.

    Nilaja
    Very interesting. From your description, it sounds like she might not have had all her ducks in a row with the venue, then tried to pass on her problem to (some!) of the vendors. You definitely did the best you could, given the situation.

    Deborah


  14. #14
    I could get used to this! CharisseZohara's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    I am shocked you were treated that way, Nilaja! You did the right thing packing up and leaving... You are so dedicated and responsible, the situation really had to be above and beyond ridiculous (which it clearly was) for you to walk away mid-commitment.

    ((HUGS)) and e-mailing you now for the "heads up."

    ~Zoh'ra


  15. #15
    I could get used to this! CharisseZohara's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Ravenadesigns, going back to your question ;) - the most I've paid is $500 for a weekend event... At this point that's my "outer limit"! lol But that is extremely rare.

    I agree with what Nilaja said~ you really need to factor in everything from travel to scheduling. At one event, where I'd spent hundreds to be there, we arrived to find we were the only vendors... This could be good except there were NO breaks between classes... NONE... and the dancers went right from class to a show that night, so not even post-workshop shopping! It is so important that the event organizers support their vendors by allocating time, and the appropriate space for shopping... When the vendors are sequestered away in a separate room, invisible to event participants, it definitely impacts sales! So I try to get a feel for those things before attending an event...

    Then, finally, you just close your eyes and jump! You just never know... Sometimes the "little" events turn out to be the best surprises :D

    Good luck!! Sending you prosperity and abundance

    ~Zoh'ra


  16. #16
    Mega BHUZzer theesfield's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Im sorry to have hijacked your thread Ravena.. I got carried away. My apologies. I think you will just get a feel as to what is consumer rape on vendor fees. I price all of my stuff so that bellydancers can afford it. I would have to give away a lot of my merchandise to make my money back on exorbant table fees. It's just not worth it sometimes. If your gut instinct is to cringe and say "ouch" when the vendor fee is quoted...then it's probably just too much.

    Nilaja


  17. #17
    Advanced BHUZzer SandraDances's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Speaking as a small event organizer, remember that the event producers probably have to rent the location longer to accommodate the vendors (by giving you time to set up and clean up).

    Our workshops are not centered on vending (conventions sort of are) and it's just a bonus for our participants to have a vendor there, so we might be inclined to dump the entire rental fee for the extra time (1.5-2 hours) on the vendor. So far, we haven't, and probably won't as long as we aren't scared of losing money.


  18. #18
    Mega BHUZzer theesfield's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    I am also an event producer. When I rent a space early it is not only for the vendors to set up but also for me to get the event set up itself. I can't imagine that any place I rent will automatically be set up for a bellydance event without me, the organizer having to set up a thing (stage, chairs, registration, decorations, music station, organizing volunteers, clean up, etc. Not to mention, I don't want the workshop to start at 10am and not being able to have me or participants get in the door til 10am it just doesn't make sense). So while I am setting up for the event and taking registrations, vendors are welcome to set up their souk. It would have never crossed my mind to have vendors absorb the 1 or 2 hour extra hour rental fee.

    Nilaja


  19. #19
    Advanced BHUZzer donnadiva's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had an event at a venue that charged me per hour for the room, but then I tend to use small conference centers and hotel meeting rooms. The ones I use charge a flat fee by the day or half day, and they just want to know what time to have the doors open. And they don't charge extra for tables or chairs, again they just want to know how many and where do you want them set up. Consequently, I'm able to keep vendor fees to a fair price (I charge per table/rack for the entire weekend) - at least I've been told that my fees are fair. The fee that the vendors pay certainly offsets the room rental, and it is a consideration, but I like having my vendors there. If I overcharge them for space, they might not be inclined to come back the next time.

    I consider vendors an added draw for workshop participants, and it helps to sell tickets to the evening show if audience members know there will also be shopping. Adds to the party atmosphere. And I try to have a good mix of vendors selling a variety of different items. Customers are happy, vendors are happy, and I'm happy!

    As for setup and clean-up, I've never run an event where I didn't need an hour or so just to get my own stuff set up and organized, make sure the audio equipment works, the floor is clean, I've got enough tables/chairs, etc. When I get in, the vendors can get in. And at the end of the day/event, I'm the last one out the door to make sure everything and everyone is out of the room.


  20. #20
    Established BHUZzer txchic's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    I was told Rakkasah vendors that reserve a 6 table or rack space pay nearly the same as the $1400.00 for Ahlan wa Sahlan 08. Plus each vendor pays $35 for the pleasure of using electricity for 2.5 days. Badges, ads, etc are additional. Full page ad is over $100. On top of $3.50 plus per gallon for gas I also foresee little haggling at future Rakkasah's.


  21. #21
    Advanced BHUZzer SandraDances's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by theesfield View Post
    I am also an event producer. When I rent a space early it is not only for the vendors to set up but also for me to get the event set up itself. I can't imagine that any place I rent will automatically be set up for a bellydance event without me, the organizer having to set up a thing (stage, chairs, registration, decorations, music station, organizing volunteers, clean up, etc. Not to mention, I don't want the workshop to start at 10am and not being able to have me or participants get in the door til 10am it just doesn't make sense). So while I am setting up for the event and taking registrations, vendors are welcome to set up their souk. It would have never crossed my mind to have vendors absorb the 1 or 2 hour extra hour rental fee.

    Nilaja
    We don't have that much to do to set up for a workshop. A few tables and chairs, some fliers. It takes a lot longer for the vendors to unpack and repack all their things.


  22. #22
    Master BHUZzer SamiraShuruk's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenadesigns View Post
    OMG! $1400 is insane! Here I am whining about $300-400 for 2 days and these people have to pay in the thousands!!
    They're paying $1400, but the event draws ...I don't know how many, but over 1,000 people I believe. It's a week long event and most stay for the whole thing. Dancers fly to Egypt with an empty suitcase expecting it to fill up with all their purchases. :)


  23. #23
    Mega BHUZzer theesfield's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    okay, I had to revive this thread. my normal vending set up is 2 tables, 2 racks. I was just informed that a local event is charging $900 for my set up for 2 days. I will never make that money back! People are really careful with their money these days. I can't even begin to imagine that fee. Ok..Im done.

    Nilaja


  24. #24
    Master BHUZzer casbahdance's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by theesfield View Post
    okay, I had to revive this thread. my normal vending set up is 2 tables, 2 racks. I was just informed that a local event is charging $900 for my set up for 2 days. I will never make that money back! People are really careful with their money these days. I can't even begin to imagine that fee. Ok..Im done.

    Nilaja
    Wow, if you were here in Southern California, I'd invite you to vend at my event next April. It's a one-day event, but you'd pay $220 for two 12-foot tables plus two racks totalling 12 feet . . . Less for 8-foot tables . . .

    Deborah


  25. #25
    Master BHUZzer tigerb's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    I missed this thread the first time around, so I was interested to read it. Here's a different perspective... that of the small-time chicken feed vendor! :-D

    I very occasionally take a vending table to sell my one-of-a-kind hand-dyed veils. One table, usually around twenty veils. I make veils because it's one of my art outlets, like dance is. I'm a crafter, and this is not my full-time job. I have to match my prices to the going rate for veils, and since I can't buy my supplies in big wholesale lots, I don't make that much profit per veil. So if somebody contacts me with an invitation to vend somewhere, I add up the cost to vend plus gas and whatnot and figure out how many veils I would have to sell just to break even.

    This weekend I am selling at a nearby event. No hotel cost, almost no gas. To break even I will have to sell two veils. A no-brainer!

    Last year I got invited to vend somewhere many miles away -- I would need a hotel room and two tanks of gas in addition to a moderate table fee. But I figured out that I would have to sell 24 veils just to break even! So, um, no.

    I understand that event organizers need to charge a certain amount to vendors in order to help them recoup their venue costs. But in these days of high gas prices, they should also keep in mind who is close enough to travel to them to sell without handing over all profits to the oil companies. (Or, who can ship and find someone to sell locally for them.)

    Just something to think about.


  26. #26
    Mega BHUZzer theesfield's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by casbahdance View Post
    Wow, if you were here in Southern California, I'd invite you to vend at my event next April. It's a one-day event, but you'd pay $220 for two 12-foot tables plus two racks totalling 12 feet . . . Less for 8-foot tables . . .

    Deborah
    Well see? That's more like it.! Wish I were just a tad big closer..because I am not afraid to travel. Headding to OH to vend right now..its 6 hours away. I know that the other major vendor in this area just told the event coordinator that her prices are too high. They might end up with this major super star event (which I cant even afford to attend) and no vendors. Now how fun is that???

    Nilaja


  27. #27
    I could get used to this! Magidah's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    As a newbie vendor, I have to say that I am having a hard time seeing how one actually makes money at these events. Because we are just starting out and need the exposure in different market segments regionally, and at least events seem to pay for themselves rather than just money out the door on an ad that may or may not bring business......we have been traveling and vending about once a month since February.

    However, by the time I drive 10-20 hours roundtrip, pay for a hotel room for 2-4 nights, pay for food, pay for an assistant and his/her food & travel.....even if I bring in $2000 gross for the weekend (which is what we seem to average so far), it is not lucrative. It pays for itself and maybe one month of credit card bills -- certainly not enough to re-invest in another production run of pants.

    I think that for right now, and maybe for another year, it will make sense to continue to have the valuable face time with prospective customers. I also think that my merchandise needs some education and I don't feel like our website is totally fabulous yet. These elements of our business plan make it sensible to vend at events right now. But I hope to heck that we will be making more money through the website and can open some retail outlets in the next 2-5 years so that I can travel to dance and teach instead of just vending.

    I believe a 10x10 space at Rakkasah West last year ran about $650, but don't quote me on that.


  28. #28
    Master BHUZzer Lilaravena's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Personally - I have become very selective of where I vend due to these fees. Some events are charging $500 for one 8x10 table for one day! Insane.

    I have heard through networking with other vendors that many are not seeing "ROI - return on investment". This low ROI is leading many vendors to "just say no" to higher priced events. For many years, I feel the vendor fees and vendor sales was a win-win for everyone.

    With the soured economy, the vendor fees are higher than the vendor sales. Give it some time - it will all balance once again.


  29. #29
    Established BHUZzer txchic's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magidah View Post
    I believe a 10x10 space at Rakkasah West last year ran about $650, but don't quote me on that.
    I overheard a Rakkasah West vendor talking with another vendor about the 2008 vendor fees being almost $1000. (I do not know the size of the booths being discussed.) One remark shocked me - the Rakkasah sponsor charges each and every vendor $35 for access to electricity. Wow!! To me that is price-gouging. The buildings are not well-lit so electricity is necessary. The sponsor is aware of those details when she rented the buildings yet she adds $35 per vendor for access to an outlet. Outrageous. Plus the Bhuz feedback from Rakkasah West participants indicated the condition of one of the buildings, the word gross is an understatement. It was cold, filthy, dark, spiders and spider webs everywhere, dried food droppings on the floor, grease spots on the floor near costume displays, bathrooms were nasty, etc. (Denise of Pangia said she saw go-kart races inside the first building 2 weeks prior to Rakkasah. That would explain the oil and grease.)

    The IBDC in Las Vegas also charged steep vendor fees. I viewed the vendor pages online, it was much higher than Rakkasah.

    With gas prices increasing and little hope for change in the near future I anticipate more vendors will be forced to reduce travels or even cease vending. Of course I anticipate merchandise will increase in price since the fuel costs have to be recovered somewhere.


  30. #30
    Mega BHUZzer theesfield's Avatar
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    Re: When is a vendor fee too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by txchic View Post

    Of course I anticipate merchandise will increase in price since the fuel costs have to be recovered somewhere.
    As a vendor, I will do my best to keep my prices down. Im a dancer, so I know that this Hobby/profession is an expensive one. So I am very hesitant to raise my prices on my product.

    As an event coordinator, I am also doing my best to keep prices down. I just came from an event where the event coordinator had 9 vendors and 20 workshop participants! I had 9 vendors at my first festival and over 350 in attendance! Needless to say at this last event, I sold very little.. cause every vendor had a hipscarf! So, not only is it important to look at what we are charging and paying for table fees, but we need to know how many people are coming, how many people are you bringing in?...which all goes back to my other thread about workshop prices.

    if you are going to charge 100+ per day for a workshop, then expect a lower number in participant turn out. If there is a low number of dancers, you can't expect to charge your vendors a high table fee and still expect them to make a profit and have them keep you on their christmas card list!


    Nilaja


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