Thread: pay the artist

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE]YouTube - Harlan Ellison -- Pay the Writer[/ame]

replace from 2 05 writer by bellydancer

wow!

i watched it three times

"Lady.... tell that to someone who just fell of the turnip truck!" LUV it!
Don't you wish you could say that to everyone who calls wanting you to dance for free?

Well Said!

Actually,
I've just been in the situation where I was very recently asked to dance in a show where the guest of honor was a big name BDSS tribal dancer.

So, how much do they pay?......nothing,
How about travel costs?............no,
Refreshment tokens?.................no,
Drink/food in the change rooms?...no,
Well, what do I get then?...........publicity!

Did I mention the ticket price was (US) $ 27.50!!

What really infuriates me is
1. that this was organised by bellydancers WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!
2. dancers still accepted these conditions and danced for nada.

Maybe I should send the link of this film to the organisers.

Cheers Rosemarie

I"m going to embed this on my website in my article about performing ethics.

Think he's got anger management issues? LOL. That was very good. If only more people saw things that way.

Terrific piece, thanks for posting it.

Awesome. Excellent. Funny too.

Thanks for posting.

I love it!!! It's going straight on my youtube favorites list. And when I get in a really narky mood I can embed it in emailed replies to 'will you dance for free?' requests.

OMG, that was priceless!!!!! ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

I spewed coffee when he was talking about the studio saying he could buy the DVD with footage of himself in a store, and responded "No, YOU go to the store and buy it, motherf****r!"

oh my god, that guy needs to work for all of us........

Loved it! He's got spirit!

moved reply to new thread on this topic: paying the dancer in shows organised by bellydancers for bellydancers

Originally Posted by Rosemarie

Actually,
I've just been in the situation where I was very recently asked to dance in a show where the guest of honor was a big name BDSS tribal dancer.

So, how much do they pay?......nothing,
How about travel costs?............no,
Refreshment tokens?.................no,
Drink/food in the change rooms?...no,
Well, what do I get then?...........publicity!

Did I mention the ticket price was (US) $ 27.50!!

What really infuriates me is
1. that this was organised by bellydancers WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!
2. dancers still accepted these conditions and danced for nada.

Maybe I should send the link of this film to the organisers.

Cheers Rosemarie

Originally Posted by laura 2

OMG, that was priceless!!!!! ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

I spewed coffee when he was talking about the studio saying he could buy the DVD with footage of himself in a store, and responded "No, YOU go to the store and buy it, motherf****r!"

That was exactly the moment that killed me, too! ..l;,

man, I need to get home, can't watch movies from work

Oh MAN! This is great!!!

Gosh, I wish he was more eloquent about it - I'd love to link to it on my website, but it's just a little too potty-mouthed.

Hmmmm.... gives me an idea.

that was great!!

too funny!

"YOU go down to the store and buy it MotherF*****!!"

..l;,

I kinda wished I hadn't watched that 'cos I'm all fired up and angry now. But it's a relief to hear someone else being so wound up about it too though. Our photography business is VAT-registered (which means that 17.5% of the gross of any sale we make goes straight to the HM Customs), we have to pay city centre studio rental, payroll for the staff, business rates etc etc et-bloody-cetera. And ALL THE TIME there are bozo photographers either thinking that they have a great camera so therefore are great photographers or just-out-of-college-trying-to-make-a-name-for-themselves kids who undercut us.

Ha ha and the amount of people who used to ask us to do stuff for free. No more of that. God once we had some girl email us to say that she would be willing to "let" one of our trainee photographers shadow her for the duration of her wedding in return for free pictures. I mean, wow, she was going to let our company do a project that takes around 35 person-hours and not pay us a penny for it - wasn't that kind of her??

God I could start really ranting about people who think we are a charity or something. Even friends and relatives seem to think it's just about taking a few snaps and nipping to the lab to process them. Yeah, like just throwing on a costume, nipping down for a quick 20-minute dance, then going straight home. Oh yeah.

I've even had friends do stuff like ask me to fly to a different country to photograph their wedding, me agreeing to do it at cost price as they are a friend (against my husband's better judgement in this particular case), then finding out they never had any intention of paying at all. Lovely eh? I got to spend my personal savings on two flights, do a pile of very stressful work for nothing (not even a thank you if you don't mind) plus have a 4-day backlog waiting for me when I got home. What a mate.

Edited 11th June 08 for clarification:
A fellow bhuzzer has alerted me to the fact that the above paragraph may lead some to conclude that I am referring to a local dancer, whose wedding I covered in Egypt in 2005 (I think). This is not the case. The wedding I am referring to above took place in Italy in 2006, and although both trips were to shoot friends' weddings, and both trips were around 4 days, that is where the similarity ends. No wedding fees are owed to me by the friend who got married in Egypt. Apologies for any confusion, I should have been clearer, but as you can see from the post I was a bit fired up to say the least and it didn't enter my head that I may cause unnecessary offence.

Thanks, Kathy.

NEVER undervalue yourself and NEVER allow flattery to pay a part in your negotiations. And avoid doing business with friends lol!

Oooh all wound up now, off for a cigarette (still hoping to give up soooooon) xx

...

Hi Sylvia!!

Yes I used to be great at giving up, managed it for three years once! But these days it's much harder. Thinking of taking those new tablets that make you feel a bit sick but that stop the craving while you get the nicotine out of the system.

Yes, anyone with the objective of making money should be very careful when doing "favours" or working for friends. Generally not advisable really! Even relatives can underestimate what's involved in "doing the favour" (taking a few snaps at a relative's wedding suddenly turned into a full-blown wedding album with bespoke graphic design layout, free of course! I think if they'd realised what went into it they would have had second thoughts but I didn't have the heart to say no). KATHY LEARN TO SAY NO lol!!!

xx

...

Originally Posted by KathyC

I kinda wished I hadn't watched that 'cos I'm all fired up and angry now. But it's a relief to hear someone else being so wound up about it too though. Our photography business is VAT-registered (which means that 17.5% of the gross of any sale we make goes straight to the HM Customs), we have to pay city centre studio rental, payroll for the staff, business rates etc etc et-bloody-cetera. And ALL THE TIME there are bozo photographers either thinking that they have a great camera so therefore are great photographers or just-out-of-college-trying-to-make-a-name-for-themselves kids who undercut us.
xx

Heh...that's my bf. He has a nice camera and really likes photography, but has never had any real training, and recently started talking about doing weddings. I told him NO and that if he wants to be a pro photographer, he needs to spend at least as much time and money on it as I have on dance. I showed him this video, too; I think he gets it, but I may have to go yell at him more ,r:;

That was fantastic! I wish I could say it like he said it! I love the part about selling your soul for the highest price. And he's dead on in regards to amatures. Thanks for posting!

that was realy good to watch. I have to learn that by heart, the next time that someone offers me an opportunity to dance for free on their wedding because of publicity value.

Originally Posted by bellydonsah28

Heh...that's my bf. He has a nice camera and really likes photography, but has never had any real training, and recently started talking about doing weddings. I told him NO and that if he wants to be a pro photographer, he needs to spend at least as much time and money on it as I have on dance. I showed him this video, too; I think he gets it, but I may have to go yell at him more ,r:;

Ha ha no offence lol!

Yes he DOES need to spend time and money on it and really invest himself into it and commit. Especially if he's going to get into weddings. We do weddings, civil partnerships, events, studio work, PR work, some commercial etc and by far the most challenging type of photography is wedding photography. Only one chance to get it right!!! And all that changeable light (dark church out into bright sunlight) and what about handling drunks? Directing groups of 120 people at a time? A lot goes into it and h and on heart I would advise him to start with at-home portrait sittings. Far less risky. By the time he looks properly into it he will realise what's involved and may end up going for it so wish him good luck from me!

Oh and tell him to get proper darkroom/film processin training because even if he is using digital it will help him understand about colour/contrasts etc.

x