Rant: Whoever came up with the idea of a bellydance community....

[SatinWorship19]

How about grown up, business relationships!

I know. When I go to the local entepreneurial/small business meetup groups, we like to talk about marketing strategies and how to attract new customers in challenging economic times. We share business advice.

Because that's what businesspeople do.

I think the concept of community definitely can hold some water, but only if it's phrased as a business association, or a forum of like-minded professionals. A good community makes it possible for dancers to make a living on dance alone, and helps us to elevate our artistic/cultural status.

But "sisterhood?" In some cases, I think that's just a way to keep all the gigs circulating within one small clique of BFF's and to keep fresh talent (read: competition) out of the scene. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." Nothing wrong with referring a gig or two to somebody you trust - but when a small group of dancers dominates a venue or a group of venues without considering other viable talent that the owners might want to add to the rotation, I think everybody misses out. Not my idea of professionalism or encouraging the arts. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

Real sisterhood isn't something that can be forced - or enforced, for that matter. I'm not saying it can't happen or doesn't happen, because I've made tons of good friends through dance - I just think the "sister-sister" mentality can be detrimental to our cause if the motives aren't real.

[Lauren_]

I believe a 'sisterhood' type of warm fuzzy supportive community is achievable among students and hobbyists -- possible and desirable and healthy, even. But I think expecting that 'we all share a hobby, let's be friends' feeling to continue when we all make our hobby into a business and start competing for clients and students is unrealistic.

I know. When I go to the local entepreneurial/small business meetup groups, we like to talk about marketing strategies and how to attract new customers in challenging economic times. We share business advice.

Because that's what businesspeople do.

Agreed -- but not, typically, with your direct competitors in your same industry in your own town. You might share 'best practices' with others in your industry from other cities (as we do on Bhuz) or with local businesspeople from OTHER industries.

In a typical business relationship, you don't expect to hang out or share information with your direct competitors.

Someone used the phrase 'coopetitors' and I like that. It's tricky, because we ARE competitors, but everyone thrives when we all get along -- we are one another's best audiences at clubs and restaurants, and big workshops and events can only really be successful if we're attracting each other's students, which doesn't work if the instructors are always being catty about each other in front of them!!!


I'm geographically removed enough from the rest of my local community that I don't compete for students or clients -- I'm friends with several dancers and troupe directors (even with some who don't get along with each other, which was stressful for a while). I just plain LIKE these women.

But if my studio were down the street from theirs, I think it would be difficult. You're just bound to run into differences in philosophy and priorities, we're never all going to share the exact same beliefs. And it's just too human to be hurt and upset when a friend handles business competition in a way that you wouldn't dream of... even while they're feeling hurt and upset by the way you do things.

[Lauren_]

man my last post was all over the place. I need some sleep!

[Lara L]

I am starting to agree that the idea of a bdance community is a pipe dream, at least where I'm at. I think what makes the belly dance business especially frustrating/aggravating is that dancers put on this facade of "sisterhood" rather than just accepting that we are in fact business people. We're not "sisters;" we're business people and therefore competitors. But competitors can manage to do business in an ethical, respectful way. Respect and fair play does not necessitate the fake fuzzy love "Every dancer is AWESOME and we're all buddies!" nonsense.

Nisaa

Yes! Community does not necessarily mean a best buddies club.

There are actually people I am not fond of (shock!) and have no reason to desire their company, but I communicate with them in an open, respectful manner because it is in my best interest to do so. Both in the dance world & in my "normal" job. Maybe I'm weird or cold or whatever, but I have been taught since childhood that it benefits *ME* to play nice. I can't help approaching relationships that way- yes, I genuinely care for people, but I am also looking to see what I will get out of the relationship.

Now, I am blessed to live in a community where most (if not all) of the community gets along- but even those who aren't bestest buds play nice because the alternative is not playing. We are under no delusion that anyone is obliged to come to something we sponsor, or that they have to cheer us on, but based on clear communication and at least a semblance of respect.

If someone doesn't want to play the way you want them to, you don't have to play with them. Do it the way you believe is best. Be open & communicate why you are doing things that way, but don't be surprised if someone takes it the wrong way. Find those people who ARE willing to play nice- at the very least I imagine there are a couple other students as fed up with this as you? I really hope things get better for you- but don't be afraid to make it happen for yourself. & don't stop dancing!

[SatinWorship19]

In a typical business relationship, you don't expect to hang out or share information with your direct competitors.

Right. I think in BD, this should be an exception, not necessarily a rule. Or, maybe to put it a little more mildly, you should only do this because you want to and because you like your competitors, not because you feel like you have to.

Someone used the phrase 'coopetitors' and I like that.

VERY good word.

But if my studio were down the street from theirs, I think it would be difficult. You're just bound to run into differences in philosophy and priorities, we're never all going to share the exact same beliefs. And it's just too human to be hurt and upset when a friend handles business competition in a way that you wouldn't dream of... even while they're feeling hurt and upset by the way you do things.

Yes. I don't exactly live in a sprawling metropolis with tons of gigging opportunities, we're all kind of fighting each other for the same money. Money that isn't even good, half of the time, unless the person who secures the gig also demands the appropriate rates and working conditions - which doesn't always happen. And you're right about the emotion thing. It can be really difficult to distance yourself from feeling upset if business competition has ever gotten in the way of a personal friendship, which I guess you can say is happening between me and a friend right now, in a sense. It's hurtful and it really, really sucks.

Yours sounds like an ideal situation, and this is how I feel about a lot of my buddies in New York. I'm a short train ride away and see them all the time at workshops and classes. They're my homegirls away from home! But then again, this is probably because I live too far away to be a direct competitor.

[zamora]

i have a card for cthat club too.
here we have 1 tribal group , that has a showcase called fresno belly dance, yet they are the only ones dancing, it's a joke! a showcase where only one faction is dancing.but on the other hand, if they can do a showcase on a sat.they aint that busy.
i teach in santo cruz once a year.i thought that it was diff there...but it isnt, my sponcer just doesnt include trouble makers.

[ravenadesigns]

Sort of off-topic from this thread, can anyone tell me what some of their unique (paid) types of semi-regular places to dance are or have been? Someone mentioned a deli one time....

A friend of mine had to ride in on a tractor once for a outdoor birthday gig. She said it was so "odd". LOL.

[nisaasaintlouis]

I'm geographically removed enough from the rest of my local community that I don't compete for students or clients

But Lauren, you dance in a venue smack-dab in the middle of St. Louis, so you're in the mosh-pit with the rest of us. So like it or not, you've officially been sucked into the ugliness of the STL restaurant circuit.

[LizzyDancer]

I agree wholeheartedly and was just thinking about this. It's refreshing to finally know what it's like to experience a community free of the ill effects of jealousy, politics and competition (of the territorial "rival clique" sort, as opposed to the healthy free market enterprise kind).

I think we get along so well because we're all here to learn more, seek support, and enrich our dance lives in some way. Having a collective hunger for knowledge and progress is definitely a team-building quality, as we all recognize that we have a little something to learn from each other.

I think a lot of the Diva Personalities probably don't spend much time on here because they already know everything there is to know, or prefer stalking and harrassing their competitors in person....or are otherwise busy enjoying the shade under their bridges.

WELL SAID!

[Lauren_]

But Lauren, you dance in a venue smack-dab in the middle of St. Louis, so you're in the mosh-pit with the rest of us. So like it or not, you've officially been sucked into the ugliness of the STL restaurant circuit.

Yup. I dance at one restaurant, once a month, barely my big toe in the scene but you're right, it's ugly and I'm in it.

And if I dance somewhere in my town and put it on my website, the next year there are 3 St. Louis troupes performing at that event.

My status as Switzerland in the St. Louis dance wars has faded away.

[SamiraShuruk]

I wish more professionals would realize that their own business would prosper more if they were at least cooperative, professional and civil with their peers in the community.
It's not an "us or them" mentality (as in cut throat bring 'em down competition) neither is it all flowers and fairies.
Practice good business ethics and support others (performers and teachers) who do the same.

[SatinWorship19]

I wish more professionals would realize that their own business would prosper more if they were at least cooperative, professional and civil with their peers in the community.
It's not an "us or them" mentality (as in cut throat bring 'em down competition) neither is it all flowers and fairies.
Practice good business ethics and support others (performers and teachers) who do the same.

Right. I think there's a lot to be said about being civil and inclusive, rather than defensive. Sometimes, I notice a bit of uppity or exclusionary attitude toward emerging talent and it makes me feel disillusioned. We learn so much from accepting those who are fresh, new and different. If you're just worried that they'll steal your gig or disrupt "the scene" as you know it, then you're missing out.

As far as supporting, I'd also like to add to the list "support dance-friendly businesses." If I hear of something shady that's going on at one of the local venues, I'll gladly go eat my falafel elsewhere.