Rant: Whoever came up with the idea of a bellydance community....

[hotrockin]

Does not live or work in mine.

How can anyone have "community" in a place where everybody is out to get each other? My dance community really sucks. Basically there are a handful of teachers who all hate each other and the students suffer for it. And if you are a new dancer, watch your back! You never know who is out to get you--it's whoever gets there first with the gossip about the other troupes, teachers dancers, and on and on and on.

There's only one place to dance, the manager double books dancers without telling anyone, and outsiders feel free to steal jobs from local dancers.

There's a bellydancer dancing "pro bono" at ever single festival, event, cow-milking, pig-roasting, snow-shoveling event in town, and most of them are beginners dancing as "professionals" so no one hires dancers, I mean, who's paying for what they can get free, especially when what they get for free is painful to watch

Its to the point where I don't know why the dance form is even worth it. Does everyone have this problem. How do you deal with people like this?

Do not suggest sitting down over it, that has been done and does not work. everyone thinks they are right and nobody admits they are part of the problem particularly the primary problem makers.

encouragement anyone?

[mish_mish]

You cannot change anyone but yourself. I live in a town w/ many of the same problems (just not the snow-shovelin'). Do the things you enjoy and don't talk crap. Don't dance at places that don't respect you/belly dance. This may mean driving to haflas and activities out of town.

[Kimahri]

Its to the point where I don't know why the dance form is even worth it. Does everyone have this problem. How do you deal with people like this?

Do not suggest sitting down over it, that has been done and does not work. everyone thinks they are right and nobody admits they are part of the problem particularly the primary problem makers.

encouragement anyone?

Dance is always worth it.....if you have a community that shares and supports your passion that's great but if not create your own universe.

~~Kimahri

[Adishakti]

Best you can do is be positive and refuse to fuel the political fires.

You can't make anyone do anything, but you can choose to rise above the nonsense and remain optimistic.

Sounds like you are letting the issue come between you and your love of dance. Walk away from the pettiness and rediscover why you fell in love with the dance in the beginning. Life is too short to waste on these sorts of headaches.

[SaraKat]

That sucks.
Is it possible, though, that with some legwork you could establish another performance venue? A regularly-scheduled hafla at a community center? Dancing at a coffee shop or tea house? I have no idea what your community is like, but the "only one place to perform" sounds like a recipe for intense competition and boredom on the part of anyone who isn't getting in for whatever reason.
When the one troupe I am in started performing, although our community is really supportive, we only had one performance venue available to us (in terms of conventional locations such as restaurants) that closed shortly after we started performing there. So, we started having haflas and inviting our students and the other dancers in the area to come.
This might be stupidly optimisitic! Maybe these other dancers will sabotage your attempts. But I've always found it easier to carve my own niche than to compete with others for theirs.

[tattood1]

agree. make your own game & play with your own ball. don't play dodge ball with people & take bd as it is; a social dance. that's how it started.

spoken from somebody who has done every "bad" thing you can do too "offend" her bd scene BUT has a class & regular gigs anyway. *blleeetth*

tinah

[Sonja2]

That sucks.
Is it possible, though, that with some legwork you could establish another performance venue? Dancing at a coffee shop or tea house?

This is a good question. We only have 1 place that pays dancers, too. It would be nice to find some other venues, but we don't have very many ME places. Sort of off-topic from this thread, can anyone tell me what some of their unique (paid) types of semi-regular places to dance are or have been? Someone mentioned a deli one time....

[anala]

Me *raises hand*...I am the deli dancer, but I am (we are) about hafl pro bono as well. We charge when we are hired by private people and organizations who want a little entertainment in my dusty NM town of 32,000. We dance for free for real 501 C3's and other civic functions/festivals if others there are also donating thier time. I live in a conservative town with a military base and retirees as its economic base. I am happy and amazed that we can dance in public at all! So, once a month we dance for free at a local coffee house. We have a loyal following and we are tipped pretty well and the money goes into a troupe fund for group costumes and workshops. The owner has been generous in adding to the tip tambourine on occasion and all in all it beneficial in that more people are exposed to the dance and sign up for my classes as well. The thing is...we are the only BD game in town so I set the rules and I am not undercutting anyone else here. Do I wish we got paid more? You bet! Is it realistic where I live...probably not. Why do (I) we dance? It certainly isnt for the money, but this situation is not "big city".

[LeylaAmir]

This is a problem that has excisted since I started in 1972 and will probably go on forever. Some communities do pull together. Las Vegas used to be a war zone...but I would have to say it has clamed down in the last 5 or 6 years. Everyone here tries to schedule events so as not to step on other event toes. We have a monthly Hafla's sponsored by creative director of the Las Vegas Bellydance Intensive, Samira Tu'ala, where anyone who wishes to dance can. We have dancers who come to Vegas and join our hafla's also, and love the reception they receive. It is a dance community to be proud of.

Don't give up... develope you own thing and be nice and supportive to others when you can. In the end your support will grow a following of dancers that want the same as you.
The joy of the dance!
Yours in Dance
Leyla Amir......Leyla Amir, Las Vegas, Egypt tours, dancer, performer

[EveRabie]

Boy do I know exactly where you are coming from. I wish I would have known how things were when I first started years ago. I thought things would change going to a different studio. Just a different version of the same problem.

I feel your pain. And I know all about the REAL problem makers not admitting to anything. My middle name is "Scape Goat."

Wish I could offer you a solution. I am in just about the same spot you are, wishing to create my own dance world and make it a reality. I hope it is not a pipe dream.

Eve

[SatinWorship19]

*raises hand* Yep, proud card-holding Rogue Anti-Sisterhood Local Community Infidel (TM) here. I get roasted for it all the time and only recently stopped caring.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: the idea of a community is nice on paper, but doesn't always translate to real life and the business world, where people have differing personalities and ethical codes and, not to mention, their own bottom lines to watch out for. Unfortunately, a lot of us place community loyalties pretty far up on our list of priorities and act surprised when we get burned.

The only thing you owe your community, as far as I'm concerned, is your respect for two things 1. the integrity of the dance and 2. fair rates for everyone. You don't need to attend their little haflas or workshops. You don't need to kiss anybody's butt. Just be cordial and do your own thing. It's so much more rewarding to succeed on your own terms than to do so by kissing anybody's butt, anyway.

Definitely explore your options out of town, create your own gigs, and maybe pursue private parties instead of restaurant work. Love the dance, respect yourself, and celebrate your own victories as they come up....and laugh your ass off at their inevitable jealous chatter when you blow 'em all out of the water. After several years of taking other peoples' bad behavior to heart, I finally see it all as the morbidly amusing, hilarious little sitcom that it is: something I can laugh at from my safe distance, but tune out when I'm sick of the show.

Good luck!

[ghazallah]

Lisa, I bow down before you!

Suzan

[nisaasaintlouis]

*raises hand* Yep, proud card-holding Rogue Anti-Sisterhood Local Community Infidel (TM) here. I get roasted for it all the time and only recently stopped caring.

How do I apply for my own card?!

I've said it once and I'll say it again: the idea of a community is nice on paper, but doesn't always translate to real life and the business world, where people have differing personalities and ethical codes and, not to mention, their own bottom lines to watch out for. Unfortunately, a lot of us place community loyalties pretty far up on our list of priorities and act surprised when we get burned.

I could not have said it better myself. After trying to be a voice of change in my "community," and realizing many, if not most, people here are seemingly content with low standards, crappy pay, and even crappier dancing, I'm content to withdraw into my own world, where ethics and quality actually do matter. Yes, I've realized the futility of my dewey-eyed, rah-rah-let's-work-together ways!!!

The only thing you owe your community, as far as I'm concerned, is your respect for two things 1. the integrity of the dance and 2. fair rates for everyone. You don't need to attend their little haflas or workshops. You don't need to kiss anybody's butt. Just be cordial and do your own thing. It's so much more rewarding to succeed on your own terms than to do so by kissing anybody's butt, anyway.

Again, couldn't have said it better myself.

Nisaa

[ruta21030]

if there is an attempt at community, it eventually happens, tho it may take a long long loooooooong time..........and even then, there is hidden tension (or not so hidden in some cases) THAT takes courage, integrity, perseverence, and living/leading by example............you'll be a stepchild for a while, but eventually, people come around.........ESPECIALLY if you end up going out of your box to make the money you deserve, and the others get wind of what's possible

[SatinWorship19]

I could not have said it better myself. After trying to be a voice of change in my "community," and realizing many, if not most, people here are seemingly content with low standards, crappy pay, and even crappier dancing, I'm content to withdraw into my own world, where ethics and quality actually do matter. Yes, I've realized the futility of my dewey-eyed, rah-rah-let's-work-together ways!!!

To each their own. Some people love to perform raqs beaver, feel entitled to open their own studios after 1 year, and think $35/set is a great deal. But I kinda like things like fair pay, respect, and decent representation in the public eye. I also like when the general public understands the hard work, professionalism and skill that make us so exorbitantly priced.

Your ideals may feel utopian and unrealistic, but in the end, the people that matter will value you for being the daydreaming revolutionary that you are.

Says the girl whose friend has been receiving cryptic voicemails from a "prospective student" with a very unconvincing fake Indian accent.....w.:..c:: ..c::

I feel a disturbance in the Force...

[Sonja2]

Says the girl whose friend has been receiving cryptic voicemails from a "prospective student" with a very unconvincing fake Indian accent.....w.:..c:: ..c::

I feel a disturbance in the Force...

..l;, ..l;, ..l;, ..l;, ..l;, ..l;, ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

Funny funny funny! You crack me up!!

I think we all have "community" problems. Tell me--does anyone NOT (if you are the only one in town, you do not count!!! )

[stardancer]

I've never fit in with the local "community". It's like a HS clique. Too much BS and to be quite honest I really don't fit in with them. Too much old school and not enough progress for my taste. I have a couple close dancer friends and that's all I need.

[SatinWorship19]

I've never fit in with the local "community". It's like a HS clique. Too much BS and to be quite honest I really don't fit in with them. Too much old school and not enough progress for my taste. I have a couple close dancer friends and that's all I need.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Ninth grade was bad enough the first time around. I'm not exactly chomping at the bit to relive the memories ten years later. Even if it did get me tons of gigs....

[SatinWorship19]

Another funny observation:

Tons of postings related to dealings with cliques, territory and drama in a BUSINESS forum. Not erroneously posted or irrelevant, either. Just why can't we operate as independent businesspeople without some sort of issue of this nature inevitably popping up?

We're an odd bunch, with the "loyalties" we create and the boundaries we draw and our love/hate relationship with our competitors. In any other job, it's advisable to keep business and personal matter separate. I think a lot of BDers could afford to establish a little healthy distance between the two. Unfortunately, the free market economy makes it very challenging to maintain quality friendships with business competitors....somebody always gets betrayed.

[SamiraShuruk]

Sort of off-topic from this thread, can anyone tell me what some of their unique (paid) types of semi-regular places to dance are or have been? Someone mentioned a deli one time....

Ooooh, a deli gig sounds like it could be a hoot. ..g.: I have a regular gig on a USAF base. It's not all military guys- in fact- it's usually all couples and groups of couples.
...and as for community- DC used to be really divisive and the rates had been the same for over 15 years. With a lot of hard work, communication and organization we've really raised standards. While there are of course little issues and at times not so little issues- most of them are few and far between AND we have a whole lot more warm fuzzy moments and more and more really nice events that are the coordinated efforts of "separate" groups.

[Sonja2]

Wow, Samira, that's an interesting place to dance! Pretty cool! Good for you for finding such a unique place! And Lisa--you made me feel old by pointing out that 9th grade was 10 years ago for you....it was *gulp* 16 years ago for me!!!

[Freddie]

You cannot change anyone but yourself. I live in a town w/ many of the same problems (just not the snow-shovelin'). Do the things you enjoy and don't talk crap. Don't dance at places that don't respect you/belly dance. This may mean driving to haflas and activities out of town.

Absolutely. It's the same in Liverpool. I gave up dancing party because of it. But I'm dancing again now and doing exactly what Mish says above.

The thing is that behaviour such as you describe is, in my opinion, usually triggered by insecurity and desperation. You can't change that. Don't involve yourself with negative energies like that, you'll just get used. The "bellydance community" thing is a myth in my opinion. Never in all my working career have I come across such competitive, ruthless and rude behaviour than I've seen in the world of MED. Really, all that sisterhood BS I got told at the start - well all I can say is I'm glad I have brothers if that's how sisters behave lol!

But through all that there ARE lovely women involved in the dance, you just have to find them. These days I'm lucky enough to have some very close friends who are friends first and co-dancers second. They are fairly local to me so I don't feel like I'm missing out.

[Freddie]

Another funny observation:

Tons of postings related to dealings with cliques, territory and drama in a BUSINESS forum. Not erroneously posted or irrelevant, either. Just why can't we operate as independent businesspeople without some sort of issue of this nature inevitably popping up?

We're an odd bunch, with the "loyalties" we create and the boundaries we draw and our love/hate relationship with our competitors. In any other job, it's advisable to keep business and personal matter separate. I think a lot of BDers could afford to establish a little healthy distance between the two. Unfortunately, the free market economy makes it very challenging to maintain quality friendships with business competitors....somebody always gets betrayed.

Good point as ever.

The thing is that from my point of view I started doing this as a hobby, not a business. When I realised I was good at it and became hooked, I did start a little business trading in costumes, but soon realised that what I wanted was fun, not more business, so I jacked it in. But it doesn't seem possible to persuade people that actually I'm [I]not[I] looking for a career in this and I'm just here for the joy of it (and a bit of money if I teach a class / do a workshop or a performance). People often still view me as a threat for some reason and react according to that perception. I already work more than full-time and I have a young family to raise. I deal with backbiting and competition in business daily. I don't need any more of that, this is supposed to be my release, my escape, not a contest to see who's gonna be the next Queen of Sheba or whatever.

Probably the topic of another thread but what p's me off the most is the general attitude that if you don't become a Teacher, Restaurant Dancer, Event organiser, Trader, Famous-Name Workshop Leader and Star Performer, then you are a nobody. Well sod that attitude. My peripatetic nature may not fit in a box but I'm happy with my little lot. I don't like limiting definitions and labels and the opinions that they generate, I prefer to be loose and free with what I do, especially when it comes to MED.

[palmier]

Good point as ever.


Probably the topic of another thread but what p's me off the most is the general attitude that if you don't become a Teacher, Restaurant Dancer, Event organiser, Trader, Famous-Name Workshop Leader and Star Performer, then you are a nobody. Well sod that attitude. My peripatetic nature may not fit in a box but I'm happy with my little lot. I don't like limiting definitions and labels and the opinions that they generate, I prefer to be loose and free with what I do, especially when it comes to MED.

i was thinking about that the other day, one young woman was trying to justify herself for liking this dance and not seeing herself dance in a restaurant. I was telling her, you have the right to do it for fun as a hobby, just like tons of people do jazz, flamenco , hockey, creative writing, pottery or whatever because they just want to move and have fun and change their routine.
My friend who started dancing at the same time as me , was feeling so bad about a dancer who seem to always say something to bring her down cause she wants to make it big time and wants to big recognize internationaly, and my friend loves dancing and teaches but she is quite content to do it just in town she is good and chose another path and is not less of a dancer for that.

[Freddie]

Hmmm well at least it's not just me. Much as part of me would love to be 25 with no kids and the ability to travel the world learning more and more and buying lots and lots of lovely costumes (lol I can just see it!), the fact is I have ties here. Most of these ties take up weekends, so festivals are few and far between for me. One class a week and a few workshops a year are plenty in terms of teaching.

Guess what I did last week (and am going to do again this week)??? Shock horror - I went to a class not far from where I live, taught by a teacher I know and respect, full of mixed ability dancers all having a good time. I slotted myself in and just enjoyed the exercise and the vibe. It was lovely, and it felt good to break the rule of "once you are a teacher you don't go to other people's classes unless it's a Masterclass or a Workshop by Respected Foreign Dancer". I even learned a bit of new footwork because the teacher's style is different to my own and she has a different take on it all to me.

Here's to getting out of the box (as opposed to getting off my box lol!!)

[nisaasaintlouis]

The "bellydance community" thing is a myth in my opinion. Never in all my working career have I come across such competitive, ruthless and rude behaviour than I've seen in the world of MED. Really, all that sisterhood BS I got told at the start - well all I can say is I'm glad I have brothers if that's how sisters behave lol!

I am starting to agree that the idea of a bdance community is a pipe dream, at least where I'm at. I think what makes the belly dance business especially frustrating/aggravating is that dancers put on this facade of "sisterhood" rather than just accepting that we are in fact business people. We're not "sisters;" we're business people and therefore competitors. But competitors can manage to do business in an ethical, respectful way. Respect and fair play does not necessitate the fake fuzzy love "Every dancer is AWESOME and we're all buddies!" nonsense.

Nisaa

[tattood1]

yay the territory thing cracks me up. i stay away from my competitors territory yet in a REAL occupation i should be able to apply for a restaurant job i want. because of this territory thing there are bders out there who operate at say the only ME place in town & pass themselves off as "it". if this was a normal field that wouldn't happen.

tina

[SatinWorship19]

Probably the topic of another thread but what p's me off the most is the general attitude that if you don't become a Teacher, Restaurant Dancer, Event organiser, Trader, Famous-Name Workshop Leader and Star Performer, then you are a nobody. Well sod that attitude. My peripatetic nature may not fit in a box but I'm happy with my little lot. I don't like limiting definitions and labels and the opinions that they generate, I prefer to be loose and free with what I do, especially when it comes to MED.

I know. I think there would be far less of that annoying catty, cutthroat diva attitude going around if everybody could just chill out, do things at their own pace, and realize that having a weekly gig is NOT the be-all, end-all.

The killer is that being the House Dancer at a local restaurant doesn't even seem to mean much in regards to talent, anyway. There are some bigshots who only got to where they are because they dance for cheaper, have the right "look," scratched the right person's back, or have unlimited time to toot their own horn (with or without the talent to back it up). Anybody with a hip scarf, these days, can piggyback or undercut their way into "fame" and "stardom." Tons of genuine talent goes unrepresented because the divas are the ones who clamour the loudest for the publicity and attention. Sad, but true.

I, personally, am far more content to do sporadic but lucrative gigs, for the love of it than to devote every Saturday night to vying with a plate of shawarma for Joe Blow's attention. Maybe I'd feel differently if I were in Vegas or L.A. where the venues are bountiful and classy, but in my podunk little neighborhood, the pickings are slim and it's so not worth getting tangled up in the inevitable drama...

[nisaasaintlouis]

I, personally, am far more content to do sporadic but lucrative gigs, for the love of it than to devote every Saturday night to vying with a plate of shawarma for Joe Blow's attention. Maybe I'd feel differently if I were in Vegas or L.A. where the venues are bountiful and classy, but in my podunk little neighborhood, the pickings are slim and it's so not worth getting tangled up in the inevitable drama...

Good God, yes. In a small city or town where there's just a handful of belly dancer-ish venues and where the pay is craptastic, why, oh why, make restaurant dancing the be-all, end-all of one's career? I'd prefer to find other opportunities or MAKE my own opportunities by putting on events.

Shimmying for shawarma and bopping for baba ganouj will only take you so far.

Nisaa

[SatinWorship19]

Shimmying for shawarma and bopping for baba ganouj will only take you so far.

Yet people are stalking and slandering each other left and right over this....

I wouldn't lay my integrity on the line, even if the gigging gods presented me with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to Cavort for Kefta Kebabs. Or, in the case of your average Suzy Nippletassels, gyrate for gyros.