Thread: Why are we not legitimate?

OK. I am just fed up with being treated like a second class citizen just because I am a bellydancer!

Aside from my studio difficulty, I keep running into the same walls. People speak rudely to me before they've even met me (on the phone, email, etc) when I contact them about bellydance. Obviously some of them did not even read the email I sent. For instance, there is a coffeeshop in a building where I teach. This building prides itself on being a sort of artist's coop and the coffeeshop prides itself on displaying art of all kinds (painting, music, etc). I wrote to the person in charge and inquired about performance (myself). I got a one-line, no-capital-letters email that says:

thanks for your interest. at this time we are unable to offer the ****** as a venue for your students.

This was not what I asked! My students in this area are hardly ready for that type of thing. Secondly, people talk to me as though I am the dumbest girl in the world if I contact them regarding dance. Why do we put up with this treatment? Why does Joe Guitar get a better response than I do anywhere he goes?

Am I really just a dumb ditzy girl who dances an offensive, stripperesque dance and must be talked down to and hidden from the eyes of the children?!

*rant over*

What do you think about this? Have you had these experiences?

Oh, baby. I feel your pain.

Well, I have gotten poor reactions from time to time. But RE: the coffee shop example you just mentioned...some places just don't want a belly dancer. It's just not the variety of entertainment they're looking for. It's not about you, and it's not about belly dance; it's just not what they want. It's preference.

We have a surplus of performers in my area, and it seems every time you turn over a rock there is a dancer...to the point where you go to a random neighborhood bar, and WHOA there's another belly dancer! Frankly, sometimes I just want to go out on the town WITHOUT seeing a belly dancer. And I am one! I am sure there are others who feel the same. So I would try not to take some of these things too personally.

Nisaa

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

OK. I am just fed up with being treated like a second class citizen just because I am a bellydancer!

Aside from my studio difficulty, I keep running into the same walls. People speak rudely to me before they've even met me (on the phone, email, etc) when I contact them about bellydance. Obviously some of them did not even read the email I sent. For instance, there is a coffeeshop in a building where I teach. This building prides itself on being a sort of artist's coop and the coffeeshop prides itself on displaying art of all kinds (painting, music, etc). I wrote to the person in charge and inquired about performance (myself). I got a one-line, no-capital-letters email that says:

thanks for your interest. at this time we are unable to offer the ****** as a venue for your students.

This was not what I asked! My students in this area are hardly ready for that type of thing. Secondly, people talk to me as though I am the dumbest girl in the world if I contact them regarding dance. Why do we put up with this treatment? Why does Joe Guitar get a better response than I do anywhere he goes?

Am I really just a dumb ditzy girl who dances an offensive, stripperesque dance and must be talked down to and hidden from the eyes of the children?!

*rant over*

What do you think about this? Have you had these experiences?

Its not much consolation, but I have heard my theatre director friend rant on a number of occasions about locations like this.

According to her, supposedly 'arty' and 'open-minded' venues are often the worst in terms of not dealing fairly with local artists and performers. She tells me that they are usually happy to put a few paintings up on the wall and host the occasional, ultra-shabby open mic night but anything else is usually too 'far out'.

So it sounds like its not you, or even bellydance.

In my day job in the high-tech industry, I work in marketing and sales. So my comments are based on this frame of reference.

First, when cold-calling, you WILL often receive rude responses. It doesn't matter what you're selling, some people are simply not interested in hearing a sales pitch. Small businesses receive a constant parade of door-to-door sales people, and I'm sure these venues that you're approaching are receiving a constant parade of people wanting to sell them sugar packets, dishwashing machines, detergents for mopping their floors, window-washing services, and more. It sounds as though the coffee shop probably is solicited by a lot of local performing arts teachers (dance, music, etc.) about being a showcase for their students, to the point where they no longer even read the full message. Their eyes just glaze over and they say no.

Don't be so sure that Joe Guitar gets a better reception than you do.

The best way to sell yourself is to develop a network of relationships with other people. You were smart to go to that Chamber of Commerce event, for example.

Let's say you want to get a foot in the door with that coffeehouse. Instead of sending them an email trying to sell your services, ask everyone you know whether they happen to know the owner of that coffeehouse. Keep asking, until you find someone who does. Then ask that person whether they would be willing to introduce you to the owner, or suggest to the owner that a belly dancer might be cool entertainment to offer and by the way they know someone (YOU) who would be perfect.

Or, go to that coffeeshop regularly for coffee. Get to know the counter staff. Tip them, learn their names, greet them by name when you come in. Once the relationship is solidly established, on a day when they're not busy, ask, "I've noticed that you sometimes have entertainment here. Is there any chance you could introduce me to the owner so I could talk to her about something that I have to offer?"

Shira, that very last point you made - that is exactly what I did do. The way I got ahold of this person was through the counter staff. I teach dance in the same BUILDING for goodness sake, I buy juice there, or dinner, every time I go. *sigh*

I also resent the implication that I am a stupid girl because I bellydance. That's unrelated to the above but it does happen, a LOT. It makes me want to get all defensive and yell "I speak four languages, I get straight A's in college, I'm going to St Andrews for grad school, etc!!"

,m::

Brea, I apologize if I am misinterpreting what you've said, but I *think* what you're telling us is that you asked the counter staff for the email address of Decision-Maker. You then sent an inquiry to Decision-Maker via email. Decision-Maker responded with the brush-off you quoted in your first message. Is that correct?

If so, then you didn't really do what I'm advising. You did a cold call, which is to get hold of the name of a person you have never met, and contact that person out of the blue trying to sell them something. Now, a lot of sales cycles start with cold calls, and they are indeed a standard tool in every sales person's toolkit. But back when I was in a cold-calling job in high tech, I felt lucky to get 1 or 2 good leads out of an 8-hour day of contacting strangers and trying to get them to actually listen to my pitch. (Allowing 5 minutes per call, we're talking 1 or 2 in 40 calls actually generating an opportunity.)

What I intended in my final paragraph above was that you ask the counter person's help in meeting Decision Maker. Ie, if Decision Maker was on the premises at that particular moment, introduce you face-to-face, right then and there. Or if not, find out when Decision-Maker would be there, and come back then. It's *much* easier to establish rapport when you're face-to-face with someone. Email is so impersonal, and telephone is only slightly better.

Then, once you see the whites of Decision-Maker's eyes, you start out with what we in sales call "the rapport step". This means establishing a relationship with the person. Something like, "I really enjoy this coffee shop - your counter staff is so friendly, and I often like to have dinner here. It's always a pleasure hearing the musicians perform." On first contact, you need to keep it brief.

With luck, the person will thank you for saying nice things about the place. Then, you get to business. "Since I've noticed that you periodically feature artistic performances, I was wondering whether you've ever considered featuring professional dance performances here. I'm a professional dancer in the area, and your shop seems like the ideal environment for showcasing my work. My students often ask me where they can see me perform, and it would be so convenient for them if I were to do a show here, because they're already accustomed to attending my classes elsewhere in the building."

You'll notice that the word "belly" was not used in the above paragraph. The first hurdle is to sell the idea of dance in general. It sounds like so far all they have is music, no dance.

Hi Shira-

Oh, I see what you mean. You're right. I do have rapport with the counter staff but not with the management.

I suppose it never occured to me not to say 'bellydancer'. Usually when I say 'professional dancer' people around here assume 'stripper' so saying 'bellydancer' is a lot safer. ,r:;

Maybe I will talk to the counter person again and see if I can arrange a meeting.

Brea, would this be a paying gig, or is this one of those "exposure" situations?

Deborah

Deborah:

Paying gig. I don't do 'exposure' situations. That's just my personal choice. This place pays all of its performers.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

I also resent the implication that I am a stupid girl because I bellydance. That's unrelated to the above but it does happen, a LOT.

I have never had anyone treat me as though I'm a stupid girl because I belly dance.

Since I don't know details of your situation, I can only speculate as to why it happens to you, but here are some possibilities:

• Maybe the person who said it thinks that artists in general are stupid people. Lots of people in the arts are fantastic at their art, but not so fantastic at business skills or technology, and therefore much of the public in general has this impression that artists are flakey and out of touch with reality.
• Maybe this person has met a belly dancer in the past who behaved like a stupid girl, so now this person thinks all belly dancers are like the one s/he met.
• Maybe this person has seen a performance by one of those beginner or intermediate students who started dancing in a restaurant before having sufficient skills to represent the dance at a professional level of proficiency. And therefore, the person now thinks that belly dancers are just sexy women in skimpy costumes who wiggle and flop around a lot.
• Maybe it's because the word "belly" is rather undignified. Aside from our dance form, how is it used? Pork bellies, beer bellies, big bellies, bellying up to the bar, belly fat...

There could be other possibilities.

I usually tell "civilians" whom I meet in social situations that I do Middle Eastern dance, rather than "belly dance". I'm not afraid of the words "belly dance", I just don't like using those to make my first impression. If I open a conversation using a term that the other person is uncertain of, I force them to get to know me a little and hear me speak intelligently before the "belly" word enters the conversation.

Generally I say 'Oriental dance', actually, but people will ask 'what is that?' and I explain it is bellydancing.

'wiggle and flop' lol.

I am just putting the finishing touches on the article for you btw!

Honestly I think I'm just having a ranty couple of days. I think there's something in the water around here. :)

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Generally I say 'Oriental dance', actually, but people will ask 'what is that?' and I explain it is bellydancing.

Yup, the term "Oriental dance" is indeed something that people don't recognize, which I actually like. It provides an opportunity to initiate the conversation on my own terms, rather than having it start with potentially unflattering preconceptions that I must then fight against. Instead of saying, "It's the same thing as belly dance," I say:

It's a performing art that originated in Egypt. It is based on a traditional social dance that historically was done at weddings, circumcisions, and other family parties. When it was taken into the theatrical environment in the 20th century, it was adapted for stage into a performing art that is now embraced around the world today.

Eventually, this leads the person to ask, "Is that the same thing as belly dance?" Instead of saying "yes", I say, "Well, sometimes people call it belly dance, but I hesitate to use that term because there's a whole lot of other stuff calling itself belly dance that really isn't the same thing at all."

By the time the conversation reaches that point, I have exhibited knowledge of history and culture, and I have identified that misconceptions exist out there which don't apply to what *I* do. After all of that, the "stupid girl" attitude is unlikely to arise. Admittedly, I still might not get what I want out of the conversation, but at least I will have forced them to see me as well-informed and articulate.

Hi Shira,

Wow, I really like this! It's a much better way to do it than just saying, oh it's bellydance.

Sent the article!

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Deborah:

Paying gig. I don't do 'exposure' situations. That's just my personal choice. This place pays all of its performers.

EXCELLENT!!!

Deborah

Originally Posted by *Shira*

It's a performing art that originated in Egypt. It is based on a traditional social dance that historically was done at weddings, circumcisions, and other family parties. When it was taken into the theatrical environment in the 20th century, it was adapted for stage into a performing art that is now embraced around the world today.

While I happen to love this description, I feel like anyone I said this too would first look at me like I have 10 heads and then bust out laughing. I'm just the kind of person who could pull a description like this off. Too goofy, I think. ..l;,

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

OK. I am just fed up with being treated like a second class citizen just because I am a bellydancer!

Aside from my studio difficulty, I keep running into the same walls. People speak rudely to me before they've even met me (on the phone, email, etc) when I contact them about bellydance. Obviously some of them did not even read the email I sent. For instance, there is a coffeeshop in a building where I teach. This building prides itself on being a sort of artist's coop and the coffeeshop prides itself on displaying art of all kinds (painting, music, etc). I wrote to the person in charge and inquired about performance (myself). I got a one-line, no-capital-letters email that says:

thanks for your interest. at this time we are unable to offer the ****** as a venue for your students.

Have you ever known them to provide paying gigs for any sort of dancer? Live dance is more involved than average dude with guitar. That's the sort of thing I would have chatted up the staff about...

I've been an actress, I've worked in tourism as a costumed interpreter and guide and also in customer services etc and I'm a professional bellydancer and had similliar reactions in all my jobs. i've been dressed up as and acting the part of Queen Victoria and had the GP call me a wench!!!Really its not just happening to bellydancers-all performers that perform in and amongst the public (as opposed to being separate on a stage)get it.Not much consolation I know but do try to think of it as their problem-don't take it on board as yours or its really depressing.

To Ozma- to my knowledge they have had no dancers as of yet. In the local area, also, it seems like most (not everyone), but most dance for free. I am not one of those. However, it does make things harder. Also, I'm brand new.

Candi - I have also been a costumed interpreter, actress, tour guide, etc. I know what you mean. It's hard not to take things to heart.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

To Ozma- to my knowledge they have had no dancers as of yet. In the local area, also, it seems like most (not everyone), but most dance for free. I am not one of those. However, it does make things harder. Also, I'm brand new.
.

If they have never had dance, you need to sell it to them...they may be saying no because they simply don't have any clue what it entails, how professional you are, and what sort of customers it's going to bring in...