Thread: Business Sense

Hi all,

Here's the thing. My upbringing and then employment mainly in security work, deckhand, bouncing, etc...has not prepared me in any way for the social graces of the business world. I see others do it effortlessly, the glad-handing, the fake smiles, the pretending-they-like-you. How does one get ahold of some of this business sense? My recent studio problem has only taught me that businesslike means sharklike, and that businesspeople can be a lot more cruel than a bar fight at the sailor's pub on a Saturday night. I feel very new to all this and wanted to know where you all learned this, and whether I can learn it, or it's a hopeless cause.

For instance, I went to a Chamber of Commerce meeting (in order to glad-hand, I suppose), and after introducing myself the people smiled, but the smiles never reached their eyes. Nobody had a conversation with each other. It was like they were speaking in code, or a robotic impersonation of humanity. I feel that as a business owner I need to acquire some of these skills. At the Chamber meeting at one point I was talking to some people and ended up talking about the rather risque sailor songs some pirates taught me in Key West. Later, I thought that perhaps that wasn't the best idea.

By nature, I am rough around the edges, loyal, honest, kindhearted but caustic. I'm the Wolverine/Quint from Jaws/Marion Ravenwood character. So how does a pirate like me shine themselves up after all this time?

Does your local college offer a major in business? If so, you might want to sign up for some business classes. I'd focus on those in sales, marketing, and management, in that order.

You might also try to seek out sales training seminars.

There are some good books in the business world - go to the business section of your local bookstore when you have time to browse. Pull a book off the shelf and read the table of contents and a few paragraphs to see whether it covers topics that suit what you need. If not, try another. Keep doing this until you find one that looks good. I think a good place to start is How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. It's an old one, but has a lot of classic advice that doesn't go out of style.

See if there's an office in your town that offers the Dale Carnegie class. It's a great introduction to how to be a business professional.

Confidence is key. Personally, after being in the corporate world for so long, I find it hard to transition to the dance community! LOL

Be confident in who you are. Also, be able to describe your business in less than 30 seconds. Yes, that does sound crazy but your average person does not really care to listen to a 15 minute explanation of one's business. Sorry - not being rude, I am being honest.

If you can wrap up your business in a quick 30 second sales pitch - you will capture them.

As for how to communicate in places like chamber meetings - people love to talk about themselves and their business. Start of with HI, I am blah blah blah and you are? Hello "insert name", can you tell me a little about what you do? This opens the door for communication. Then, if you can, take what they said about their business and see if you can tie it into your business.

For example, someone just explained that they sell houses. You can respond with, "oh, I have several Realtors as customers! My business is....".

Be confident. Be strong. Have your 30 second sales pitch ready. Be polite.

Don't be shy to walk up to someone standing alone and start talking. Use the introduction I have above.

Get business cards and write personal info on the back of the person's card. That way, when you see them again you can make it more personalable. Say you just met Sally that is trying to sell a house. When you see her next time, you can say Hi Sally, did you sell that house?"

Like I said earlier, people love to talk about themselves at these types of events. Feed on that.

I hope this helps a little.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

At the Chamber meeting at one point I was talking to some people and ended up talking about the rather risque sailor songs some pirates taught me in Key West. Later, I thought that perhaps that wasn't the best idea.
?

Hehe, that sounds like something straight out of a movie

I feel your pain; I used to be really, really awkward (think Elliot from Scrubs) and very shy. What really helped me was to practice, practice, practice. All the time. Even with non-dance related stuff. I actually became a waitress and bartender just so I could learn & practice social skills. Pay attention to socially skilled people. If you know any social butterflies, try to hang out with them a lot. Talk to everyone, everywhere you go; strike up conversations with total strangers. It sounds really awkward and phony at first, and it can be very discouraging since lots of people will brush you off, but really helps you learn how to have a conversation and win people over. Heck, I used to keep a journal of what worked & what didn't, observations, etc.
Hope that helps!!

It all looks phony only if you're approaching it from a cocktail party frame of reference. These people aren't socializing to have fun or to make friends (though it happens occasionally, and you'll see a few clusters of old friends having purely social interactions).

But it's not social. It's networking. These people are here to find out about each other's businesses, to find customers and make contacts that will help them expand their businesses or their careers. Yes, there are a few sharks here who would love to rip you off, but most of them are honest businesspeople just like yourself who want to tell you about what they do and learn about what you do and see if there's any overlap where you can help each other.

Are you there trying to market your bellydance business or some other business? I think a Chamber meeting or other business networking function is probably a terrible place to market bellydance. It's just not a business-to-business service, like IT services or computer troubleshooting or printing. You can't really help them grow their businesses, you don't have other contacts to share with them in their world, and they have nothing to offer you either. Just my opinion, but the local banker and lawyer and life insurance guy aren't hiring bellydancers often.

I like to market my classes by giving little demo classes to women's groups. I've done everything from a Catholic mom's club to a breast cancer survivor group. I market myself as a performer mostly by networking with other performers and through my website.

Hi,

It was for bellydance. It was originally because the owner of my studio wanted us to go out and promote ourselves and her business (massage/yoga studio), but that day I had a falling out with them and just went anyway...just because.

I'm extremely talkative, friendly, etc...but you must picture a jovial Quint from Jaws, Paddy Button from the Blue Lagoon, grizzled sailor type. While being female means I'm not actually grizzled, I talk a lot like that and just have no social niceties. However, if you're ever in a biker/sailor/etc bar I'm the best company you'll have there! I can network and such perfectly among the others of my 'class', but when it comes to that...well, I hate to use Garth Brooks as an example, ever, of anything, but "I've Got Friends in Low Places" is about the most accurate description of how I felt/feel in those situations. A fish out of water. Can you imagine Quint at a glad-handing?!

Try to make friends with some people who have the kind of demeanor you're seeking to acquire, and then spend a lot of time with them. Notice how they express themselves, and try to follow their example. The more you can immerse yourself in doing this, the more natural it will become.

Check out this Web site! I love it. :)
Bellydance Business Academy

What is it about yourself *exactly* that you'd like to "shine up?" Is it salty language? Is it how you dress? Is it how you carry yourself? (I don't imagine it's that if you're a dancer...)

And why specifically do you want to change? Is it to get along with other dancers? Is it to be a better teacher? Is it so you can attract more business?

Analyzing these things in detail will help you figure out how to go about changing. But first, be absolutely sure that the way *you* see yourself is congruent with how the world sees you. Ask people you trust to give you an honest opinion on the subject. Don't ask your mom, or your significant other--they're probably too biased. If you ask for someone's opinion, though, you have to be sure not to get offended by what they tell you. (Otherwise, they're not going to be completely honest.)

What you perceive as socially "off" or unacceptable may not be how other people see you. Personality is a rare commodity these days, and it would be a shame to change yours--it sounds so fun! (Okay, maybe that's just 'cuz you sound a lot like me :D )

If you do decide to polish up, find people you can emulate and get help from people who understand what you're looking for. If you want to brush up on manners and etiquette, find a teacher. If you want to dress more refined, talk to a kind sales clerk at an upscale boutique. If you'd like to speak more eloquently, maybe join a toastmasters or public speaking group. Shoot, you could even pick some movie characters you'd like to be more like...watch them walk, how do they talk? What is it about them that you like so much? Then practice one or two elements a week. It will take a while to make a new trait a part of yourself, but you can do it.

But if it's all for the sake of marketing, really, keep your personality and just find a way to tone it down when the occasion calls for it. That will require a lot of restraint and knowing when certain things are appropriate and when they're not. If you truly don't know what's appropriate, get some help. But I think you must have some idea, or you wouldn't be asking the question in the first place.

I'm kind of rambling here, but yeah--the Chamber is probably not the best place to market belly dance. Maybe you could use your personality to create a special niche--belly dance for those a little "rough around the edges." How many biker chicks (is that what they call themselves??) would love to be able to do what you do but think people would laugh at them? (The gothic crowd has done a great job with this very idea.) Then you could "glad-hand in your favorite hangouts--in bars, on the docks--you could take a "business trip" to Tortuga and all your drinks would be tax-deductible! ..l;,

I guess what I'm saying is go ahead and find people to help you polish up, if that's what you want, but don't lose what makes you special. Find a way to turn it to your advantage, instead.

Whew! Okay....
Best of luck to you!!
Mira

Ooooh a business trip to Tortuga...yep. Sounds good!

I've never really thought to ask anyone. Business types just never respond well to me. I lately have even tried going after fashion, modeling myself (for some weird reason) after Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She seemed fashionable.

Still, in the end, I LIKE the sailors/bikers/etc better than anyone else. I usually don't like business types. However I thought that if you had a business you needed to grow some 'business sense'.

And to be honest, my favorite film characters are the ones most like me. Arrogant, eh?

Manners and fashion, and knowing what things to say and when, are the important parts...and to be able to do it without the stiffness that comes from disliking fakery and such.

Honestly, the chamber of commerce events are the places where I've met the most bawdy, drunken, silly people. The sweet and shiny world I work in sometimes isn't ready for my sense of humor but the business guys seems to like it.

I don't think "business sense" has anything to do with "business-y" decorum and behavior. There are some pretty uncouth but very savvy business people out there! (And as I recall...Buffy had a whole season dedicated to her lack of business sense! I loved watching her try to hold down a day job and actually get a bank loan :D ) You can totally be yourself and still have good business sense and be very successful.

And Mish--I wanna go to YOUR Chamber meetings! They sound like so much fun. Of course, I totally geek out on talking marketing strategy and sales targets...so, pretty much any chamber meeting is a party for me...,s::

Mira

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Manners and fashion, and knowing what things to say and when, are the important parts...and to be able to do it without the stiffness that comes from disliking fakery and such.

This can be the hardest part to develop if you haven't been in the business environment a lot. In general, when dealing with business people and corporate types that you don't know, it is safest to assume a high level of formality and a low level of tolerance for the more rogue-ish thoughts and comments. Business people always have to keep in mind that everyone they meet is a potential client, potential cheerleader, or potential detractor. When you first meet them, they will be on their best, formal behavior in many cases. I *think* this is what you are reading as fake. In the corporate world this is seen more as a matter of respect than of hiding anything. Especially when business people who don't know each other get together there is often a *long* period of super-polite and formal manuevering.

(Being an anthropologist working in a 1/2 academic, 1/2 high end business world, it is an interesting thing for me to see all of the interactions that take place and how relationships are negotiated in the business world.)

Wow, your viewpoints are all amazing! Mahsati, as a fellow anthropologist (and historian) what you say interests me. It is the super-polite that I take as fakery. I would also like to go to Mish's chamber meetings...at mine they had a chocolate fountain and free booze. Try blueberry mead, if you haven't. That's another thing. I used to live on a sailboat in Key West and 'business meeting with free booze' down there means something VERY different than it does up here! To live down there the most important thing to be able to do is be a professional alcoholic. Soooo the Jimmy Buffett Mode of Business doesn't fly so well here, and I was very careful about having only a couple drinks. Piracy dies hard.


(And when I decided to be a girl as a part of my shaping up, I chose Buffy and her clothing to model myself on, not really thinking about how teeny blond girl and giant Amazon woman are not going to necessarily look cute in the same outfits! Still, if I were to pick, that's who I'd want to look like fashion-wise. Also Giles is hot.)

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Also Giles is hot.

No argument from me there!


I think that is part of it - just remember that they are all being super-polite and super-formal because they see themselves as always representing themselves to potential clients. Transitioning from full time academic work to essentially academic research in a high end business/corporate focused environment was truly interesting. Think of those business meetings as a different type of culture with their own norms and mores and try to learn by watching and listening to people. Soon you will be able to blend in seamlessly and how to express yourself in that framework that is still *you* but through a lens that is more familiar to the business world. No worries - those anthropology and history skills will get a good workout in the process, but, for me at least, it is always worth it to learn to communicate successfully with other people in their own context.

..g.:

Originally Posted by mira

And Mish--I wanna go to YOUR Chamber meetings! They sound like so much fun. Of course, I totally geek out on talking marketing strategy and sales targets...so, pretty much any chamber meeting is a party for me...,s::

Mira

Yes, you do want to go. It's the requisite mucky muck speeches or awards and stuff, all the while people are drinking. So, after you get some wine flowing...it's a great place to meet people and tell stories and network with local big wigs. As a non-profit person, I often have things to talk about that they do not and they are often interested in talking to someone outside of the traditional business community. It's great for philanthropic networking. Those biz types hate giving so much money to uncle sam, so they're often looking for ways to support community organizations and offset their tax burden.

Rotary club...now that's the snoozer. Both hubs and I said no to Rotary.

I'm going to disagree with those who say it's not worthwhile going to chamber of commerce meetings. I think it was a great idea to do it, and I think it's worth doing again.

Chamber of Commerce members are people too. They too have weddings, birthday parties, hen parties, and other events that might be candidates to hire a dance performer. They also have friends who may be interested in having a dancer for parties - suppose one of those friends says, "My husband's 40th birthday is coming up and I want to hire an entertainer." The Chamber of Commerce member may then say, "Hey, I met a belly dancer at a Chamber meeting, and she seemed pretty classy. Would you like her card?"

Also, you've talked about wanting to sponsor events in the future. Where better than the chamber of commerce meetings to meet restaurant owners, and find out whether there's one who would be willing to give you a discount in exchange for being mentioned in your program? Where better than the chamber of commerce to find a lawyer you like who can advise you on how to set up a dance non-profit, if you should decide you want to do that?

It's a source of potential students. Even if the chamber of commerce members don't feel like taking belly dance classes themselves, they may go home and tell their spouses, kids, or friends, "Guess what? I met a belly dancer at today's meeting!" and then the person responds with, "Oh, that sounds like fun! Where does she teach?"

I think the best connection between customers and business owners or employees is made with genuine personality. I won't shop at a local store because they won't even give you a fake smile but the other grocery store is full of women who love to chat about our babies . I'm on a friendly basis with the post office workers, pharmacist, gas station..and it draws me back to those businesses because they are genuine and friendly and don't have that business persona.

ps I got your note about your house, it so cute!!! We have not been over that way yet but I will be happy to check on it for you when we go that way again:)

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Still, in the end, I LIKE the sailors/bikers/etc better than anyone else. I usually don't like business types. However I thought that if you had a business you needed to grow some 'business sense'.

Just be careful that your own judgements about those 'sharklike, cruel' business people aren't holding you back! Your other thread tells of your exasperation at the stereotypes you're facing as a bellydancer, but I think you might be making just as many judgements yourself. If you go into a meeting with these sorts of ideas in mind, it's going to be even harder to relate to the business people around you.

I remember that one of the things I hated most about my previous job as a management consultant was that many of my clients hated me before I set foot in the room. They automatically assumed that I was there to fire them, talk down to them, charge rediculous money for nothing of worth. And it drove me nuts, because I am not at all like that. Underneath the suit I was just the same caring, sharing person that I am deemed to be today as a bellydance instructor!

Try to remember that the business people you want to talk with are just as human as you. Some of them may also be uncertain as to how to be 'businesslike'. Perhaps if you can start with the assumption that you have things in common, and that you're just as interesting and worthy of knowing within the business environment, you can find more commonality between you.

I'm sure practice makes perfect, and exposing yourself to more business interactions will really help. If you can learn all those languages, you can certainy learn business-speak!

I'd also suggest either finding a book or class on Business Etiquette. It will be very helpful in teaching you what behaviors to engage in and what to avoid in various business and pseudo-social-masquerading-as-business situations.

Jewel-

Yes, you're right, I'm caught!! I don't think ALL people are like that, but I seem to have met some sharky people lately...

Business sense is really just people sense. Certain groups maybe have slightly different protocol (they wear suits and hand you their business cards or whatever), but not much. If you go in confident in what you have to offer, knowing why you are there and what you want to accomplish and you approach each person with an open mind and flexibility, you never know who you might meet. Practice your small talk skills and your elevator speech (describing your work in the time it takes to go one or two floors on an elevator). Have business cards at the ready at all times. Be happy to chat with anyone--I mean anyone. (I once was able to make a good contact in an LA legislator's office because I happened to meet his mother at a community meeting and started chatting with her.) You never know who you might meet who either knows someone you know or could be a great contact later down the road. I have met people who didn't really connect with anything I was doing until months later and then I was able to pick up the phone and call them later when something came up. Sometimes I run into the same people at meetings and events over and over, so the more times you see them, the better.

I love networking!

ETA: Do you know anyone who is a really good networker or is already in with the chamber or business community? Going to events with that person (or even with an outgoing friend) can help a lot. My old boss and mentor is the king of networking. He was the CEO of a non-profit who understood the value of making connections in the business community. He was proud of his work (with good reason) and he never walked in thinking he was lesser than the biz guys with the fancy jobs. He would go to every social event known to man and womankind and take me or other staff and introduce the hell out of us to everyone in the room. If he didn't know someone, he'd charge right up and say, "Hi, I'm David _______ . Great to meet you. We'd love to have you come out and tour the facility...yadda yadda." It was a great lesson for me to watch him work and I think it was one of the best things I've even been taught.

You don't have to have a facility. You can invite contacts to one of your classes. Maybe offer them a free first class or something if the conversation is going the right way. The important thing is that you approach each person as an individual, not as if you are reading a script.

The world is just one big network of connections and everyone is connected to someone. Your job is to genuinely connect with a lot of people. That isn't emailing or just handing your card, it's talking face-to-face with people.

You can do it Brea!

Brea, other folks have posted lots of great advice. Another thought I invite you to consider, after re-reading your original message and seeing your comment about the conversation turning to bawdy sailor songs.

It sounds as though you think being businesslike means being either predatory or stuffed shirt. But you don't have to be predatory like that studio owner, and you don't have to look like a 1960's accountant. Being businesslike means walking into a situation with a clear business goal in mind, and then conducting yourself in a way that will help you achieve that goal while still being true to yourself.

When you go to networking occasions, put yourself into character as a suave belly dancer who knows how to handle a crowd. The point of networking is to stir up interest in whatever you are selling. Presumably, you attended this meeting for the purpose of selling your services as a belly dancer. Therefore keep the conversation on belly dance. The reason for this is that you want them to remember you when someone they know talks about wanting to take classes or hire a performer. If you spend your time talking about bawdy sailor songs, it might be fun and they might remember "that fun person who made me laugh", but it won't imprint the memory on their brain cells that they met a belly dancer that they could hire.

Based on what you said, it sounds as though you behaved as though you were going to a party. But this wasn't a party, this was an event designed to allow business professionals to meet each other and build professional relationships.

As for the fake smiles and robotic conversations, these were just symptoms of people meeting strangers for the first time. They hadn't yet found the common ground, but were making the effort to look for it. They were probably feeling shy and awkward.

You can help people warm up while sticking to your agenda of promoting yourself as a dancer by telling them tales of humorous things that happened on gigs, but avoid things that might make them see you in a negative light. The story I usually use for this is that of dancing for a Little League baseball team, because it subtly imprints several messages I want them to remember: "Belly dancing is suitable for audiences in which children are present." "Belly dancers can be hired when you want to lighten up a tense situation." (The kids were going into playoffs.) "Belly dancers are fun to talk to." (I talked about pre-adolescent boys squirming impatiently for the game to begin while their parents thoroughly enjoyed the show.)

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Brea, other folks have posted lots of great advice. Another thought I invite you to consider, after re-reading your original message and seeing your comment about the conversation turning to bawdy sailor songs.

Shira,

I know you don't know me even though I know who you are, but I just read this and wanted to say that I think you are awesome. You've given such well-worded, thoughtful advice on this thread. I'm a fledgling business owner (of about a year or so) and an artist who gets to work at home and sell mostly online (which suits my comfortably introverted nature) yet I still found your words practical and helpful. ..g.:

Thanks!

Alaina

I did it the way I learned to dance - by studying with those I wanted to emulate. I was painfully shy, but my dance partner is outgoing and bright and easy to get along with. So I watched and imitated. I saw how she approached people, what kind of questions she asked, comments she made, etc. Now I'm so much better at talking to people and keeping a conversation alive. Since you're looking for refinement, see if there's someone whose style you like and then take cues from her.

So you're all saying that offering someone a glass of your own homemade moonshine and saying 'Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women' isn't a sound business move?

..l;, ..l;,

Sorry, I'm such a JAWS geek. Honestly, I think my problem is playing the game with a straight face. I do read a lot of it as phony and it often makes me want to laugh. Still, this thread has been very helpful to me as a person new to the whole idea of schmoozing.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

I do read a lot of it as phony and it often makes me want to laugh.

It's not phony, though. They are not trying to give you the impression that they want to hang out with you - if that was their purpose, all the grinning and small talk would in fact be phony. They are quite sincerely trying to communicate to you that they are professional, dependable and worth considering as someone to recommend to others. It's not a "game" - it's a form of communication.

Look at it this way: You are at one of these networking events, talking to a realtor, or a similar service professional. What they are hoping for is that when the time comes for you or someone you know to buy a house that you will think of them, so they want to present a fairly broadly-inviting impression. They don't want to tell bawdy stories because it limits their network.

They know they won't get the referral if the person they are talking to goes to church with a conservative couple who is looking to buy a house and tells them, "I know this guy, he tells the best dirty jokes!" Total backfire - and people who work or starve on referals can't afford to undermine themselves.

Shira has given you a ton of great advice. Isecond the recommendation of How to Win Friends and Influence People. The name makes it sound like it's about manipulating people, but it's really a book about how the way you communicate affects the way people hear what you are trying to say. And if you want people to listen, you have to present your ideas in a way that puts them at ease.

Networking is so amazingly valuable, it's really a skill worth cultivating, even if it does not come naturally. For example, I am a member of the Junior League, and I was chatting with another member, who mentioned to me that she had a friend who was starting a new business. I have a friend who was looking for someone in that line of business. I got the contact info for her friend, passed it on to my friend, and the rest is history. This happens thousands of times a day, all throughout the business world - You are hurting yourself if you don't tap into your network as a resource.

Antimony and Shira-

Don't get me wrong, I believe you totally. I know that I'm something of a rough-around-the-edges type. Comes from hanging out with a lot of bikers and sailors (and being a sailor myself). I think the advice is really wonderful from everyone because I am definitely one who needs polishing! The joking parts of my posts are there to illustrate how I am as a person in most communication situations...a hit at the pubs, not so much the Chamber of Commerce. So I think anything told here is really valuable to me.

Of course! But I would tell you to stop thinking of yourself as "I am Brea who is rough around the edges all the time" And start thinking of yourself as "I am Brea who can be rough-and-tumble when I want to be, but can communicate in other ways too if that's what I need to do to help someone understand to what I have offer."

We all have ideas in our head about the kind of person we are, but I think we hold ourselves back if we tell ourselves that that is *all* we are. You're more than Brea-Warrior-Princess, you're Brea-the-businesswoman too - so embrace it. ;)