Thread: Finally got a gig!

Hi all,

Those of you who know how hard it has been for me to get a regular dancer's night going somewhere locally will know how I am so happy to have finally (maybe) found one!

A friend who owns a coffeeshop recommended me to another coffeeshop owner that likes to do new, interesting things with music. There might even be a live band! For the moment we're going to do a ME themed night just once to see if it goes over well. Any advice at this stage of the game would be appreciated!

of course i am honored to be the first to say congrats !
looking forward to you in august!
z

awesome! congrats brea!

YAY! Congratulations on your upcoming SHOW! ~ENJOY~ ~May your success and joy increase and multiply! your website is very nice!..g.:SELENA owner of AASP

Sweeeeet!!! Congrats!

Thanks everyone for the well-wishing! I'm hoping that it does work out, as there is no Middle Eastern food around here (just Indian).

I've been sort of hemming and hawing if I should ask some of the local teachers to perform that night with me, or my own students? They haven't been at this for very long...I also wonder, as although I try to have good relationships with local teachers, if I should 'give this away' opportunity-wise. If that makes sense.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Thanks everyone for the well-wishing! I'm hoping that it does work out, as there is no Middle Eastern food around here (just Indian).

I've been sort of hemming and hawing if I should ask some of the local teachers to perform that night with me, or my own students? They haven't been at this for very long...I also wonder, as although I try to have good relationships with local teachers, if I should 'give this away' opportunity-wise. If that makes sense.

I would want to get a feel for what the audience would be like before bringing in students to perform--I'm protective that way. Also, if MED is new to the venue I would want the owner's first impression to be seeing the best possible local dancers.

~~Kimahri

...

If it were me, I would bring in as guest dancers those local teachers whom I am confident will meet two criteria: 1) not try to undermine me by cozying up to the owner and trying to take the relationship away from me, and 2) bring lots of people (students and otherwise) to watch them dance.

I would urge the other dancers to bring as many people as possible to watch them dance, AND to urge the people they invite to buy coffee and treats while there. Nothing like a big money-making night to encourage the coffee shop to try it again some time.

I would hesitate to have my students dance. Or, if I did have them dance, it would only be one group number of about 3-4 minutes in length. This is because I'd want the coffee shop owners to get a favorable first impression of the quality of dancing that I am able to bring - and the favorable first impression would need to come from seasoned performers. Also, as Kimahri said, you'd want to find out what kind of audience you're likely to draw before deciding whether it's friendly and respectful enough to be good for students.

If there is room, maybe do a "mini-lesson" before the show? That way you can promote your classes and ensure you have an audience for the show. It gives people an extra reason to show up. Maybe include a drink or something with the lesson fee.

I'm ITA with Kim and Shira - make sure you know what the vibe is going to be like before you bring students in. I personally feel that a teacher should ensure that performance opportunities for his/her students are in a warm, welcoming and safe environment.

Thanks everyone! I did think that it would be better to have other teachers/pros in the area appear at first. I don't want my students to be in a bad situation (or disappointed, I guess).

The problem is that I don't know them well enough to know if they'll keep it on the up and up. I THINK they will...but you never know.

Opportunity to jump on my regular soapbox!

I don't think it's appropriate to present students in a professional environment. It's not fair to the restaurant, the patrons, the students or our art form.

I'm all for students having lots of opportunities to dance, but in student venues where they're dancing for their own friends and families.

My reasons:
1) This may be the ONLY time an audience member will EVER see bellydancing, we want to impress them with slick professionalism.

2) People are very tolerant of little children in tutus who don't have full stage presence or perfection in technique yet. But adults presenting themselves in a public venue are open season. We've seen incidences on Bhuz of people blogging about the 'old fat gross bellydancers' they saw at a mall -- such public snark is commonplace and cruel.

3) The restaurant owner has hired a pro, and deserves to be treated as a pro venue.

4) Blurring the line between student and professional gigs can lead students to think they're ready to pursue professional work way too early.

It might be possible, if you develop a good working relationship with the venue, to someday have a closed-to-the-public student showcase there, though.

Bringing in guest dancers is a great idea, but I'd probably wait until the venue is established and then build sort of a 'sub' list. If you open it up too early or too much you'll create confusion and people will quickly forget that this was originally *your* gig -- they'll think of it as a community gig that they're all entitled to. Establish first, then have a guest no more than 1/4 of the time.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Opportunity to jump on my regular soapbox!

I don't think it's appropriate to present students in a professional environment. It's not fair to the restaurant, the patrons, the students or our art form.

I'm all for students having lots of opportunities to dance, but in student venues where they're dancing for their own friends and families.

My reasons:
1) This may be the ONLY time an audience member will EVER see bellydancing, we want to impress them with slick professionalism.

2) People are very tolerant of little children in tutus who don't have full stage presence or perfection in technique yet. But adults presenting themselves in a public venue are open season. We've seen incidences on Bhuz of people blogging about the 'old fat gross bellydancers' they saw at a mall -- such public snark is commonplace and cruel.

3) The restaurant owner has hired a pro, and deserves to be treated as a pro venue.

4) Blurring the line between student and professional gigs can lead students to think they're ready to pursue professional work way too early.

It might be possible, if you develop a good working relationship with the venue, to someday have a closed-to-the-public student showcase there, though.

Bringing in guest dancers is a great idea, but I'd probably wait until the venue is established and then build sort of a 'sub' list. If you open it up too early or too much you'll create confusion and people will quickly forget that this was originally *your* gig -- they'll think of it as a community gig that they're all entitled to. Establish first, then have a guest no more than 1/4 of the time.

As usual, what Lauren said.

Deborah

Thanks for the ideas! The thing is it seems that they are looking for me to bring along more than myself.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Thanks for the ideas! The thing is it seems that they are looking for me to bring along more than myself.

Wow...not even a ME place and they're hiring a band and willing to pay for multiple dancers?

~~Kimahri

Well, at the moment, it's just a one-time thing, so I assume they are looking for a bit of variety.

And they do pay. I guess this particular guy is very experimental to see what will work and what will not.

Congrats Brea. I think Kimahri, Lauren, and Shira have all made really good points, so I'm not going to reinvent the wheel there.

As far as if you feel that they need or are expecting you to bring in additional dancers but you are concerned about the "who can you trust" factor...are there any dancers you can potentially bring aboard for this gig who are of a professional quality but *aren't* looking for a regular/ongoing thing--who might be interested in this as a one-shot deal? Granted, what kind of pay you've been able to negotiate might affect your ability to find such dancers, but...that could be a possible thought....

Thanks for the suggestion, Mirah. It's entirely possible, but as I have written them some emails and never heard back I'm not entirely sure.

Just want to add my CONGRATULATIONS! Glad to see all your hard work is paying off.

Okay a new twist...

The coffeeshop owner is very insistent that he wants a live band. Does anyone know where I might get in contact with a live band that is in Minnesota, and would share pay with dancers?


I feel a bit troubled by this because I am afraid that the idea is pay the musicians, not the dancers. I might just be worried for no reason, but believe me, people do a LOT of things around here for free!

Have you not had a concrete conversation about pay yet? I wouldn't be going forward without a clear picture of his budget. He wants you to secure a band, how much is he willing to pay the band? You can't talk to one without that info.

If you're going to secure multiple dancers, how much is he willling to pay? You can't possibly know how many dancers to line up without knowing what his budget is.

I think I'd make an appointment to sit down and finalize details with him before talking to anyone on his behalf.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Have you not had a concrete conversation about pay yet? I wouldn't be going forward without a clear picture of his budget. He wants you to secure a band, how much is he willing to pay the band? You can't talk to one without that info.

If you're going to secure multiple dancers, how much is he willling to pay? You can't possibly know how many dancers to line up without knowing what his budget is.

I think I'd make an appointment to sit down and finalize details with him before talking to anyone on his behalf.

ITA with Lauren. If the owner has you getting a bunch of dancers and musicians excited about this opportunity, and he winds up flaking out on the pay, it's going to be your reputation harmed, not his. I know it's hard when you don't want to scare off a client, especially when gigs are scarce. But please just look out for yourself, because I guarantee you that's what the owner is doing for himself.

I'm one of those dancers that Mirah mentioned who would love to do a one time gig like this (I'm not really looking to being tied down to a weekly gig for the restaurant rate), but I would never agree to do it unless I know exactly how much I'd be taking home. Could this possibly be why you're not getting much response from your emails, because it sounds a little squiffy to the dancers? I've had fellow dancers contact me with vague gig details before, and my usual response is "I'd love to, but I really need to have all the details in place before I commit to the performance."

Laura - I haven't asked them about anything yet (the other dancers) on this specific thing. I emailed them a few weeks back asking if they'd like to get together to brainstorm ideas about monthly haflas, perhaps trying to find a consistent gig for dancers in the area, and did not hear back. They've always been nice to me, and I to them. I'm not sure why they haven't responded.

Generally with this place it's 'the band gets the door'. I am concerned about only the band getting the door. I will try to make an appointment and talk with him. I called him today but he said he was very busy.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Laura - I haven't asked them about anything yet (the other dancers) on this specific thing. I emailed them a few weeks back asking if they'd like to get together to brainstorm ideas about monthly haflas, perhaps trying to find a consistent gig for dancers in the area, and did not hear back. They've always been nice to me, and I to them. I'm not sure why they haven't responded.

Generally with this place it's 'the band gets the door'. I am concerned about only the band getting the door. I will try to make an appointment and talk with him. I called him today but he said he was very busy.

Oooof! Ummm...to be perfectly blunt...I don't know a Middle Eastern band in MN that would play under these conditions in the Duluth area...let alone split the door with the dancers. (Though I guess it begs the question, how much IS the cover charge and realistically--not optimistically--what kind of #s are you comfortable projecting.) Pretty much unless you have some great untapped local resource in Duluth you're probably looking at an *minimum* expectation of $150 per band member...plus the same amount per dancer...and that doesn't include gas/travel, which if any of them are coming from more than 15 miles away, you'll probably need to count on these days, given the astronomical price of gas. Many artists won't do a gig like this without having a minimum amount they are *guaranteed* to take home.

Now...you *might* be able to find a ME guy with a keyboard who does sort of a one man band kind of thing--there are a couple of those around. BUT I don't know any such guys who'll get out of the house for less than $250, and they'll likely expect extra (gas, tips) on top of that.

Again...maybe there's some great untapped person I don't know about, but the ones I know of who are doing it at all reliably...well...they have a certain number of recurring gigs, they have a certain market, some have jobs and families or other bands, and so they're probably not actively looking to get a "standing" thing that far away. They'd likely approach this as an occasional, out-of-town gig and expect to be paid accordingly.

*sigh* Yeah, I know, Mirah. That is why I am concerned.

If I had a stoop to sit on and look frustrated I would! Living in Duluth and trying to make a go of this is really difficult. Nobody wants to try new things and if they do it's only at a very discounted rate. I wanted to mention to the guy that the live band would cost a lot more than he thinks.

Maybe I will talk to the guy and try to make him see reason. Believe me, the last thing I want is to undercut or whatever, it's just like pulling teeth up here!

In my area, it's tough to get restaurant owners to fork out $40-60 plus dinner and a beverage for a single dancer with a CD.

Multiple dancers, live band just isn't part of the program around here, so I don't know if it's a Duluth thing. It might just be overly ambitious.

HOWEVER, if that's what the owner says he wants, and he's used to paying for live entertainment, then he may know what that costs and be willing to pay for it. I wouldn't rule that out until you've spoken with him.

I just realized we're talking about a coffeeshop here, the odds he has a budget for such a thing arent' very good.

But maybe if you present him with some numbers, you can persuade him that a single dancer with a CD and some special snacks (hummus, falafel, tabbouleh) would make a nice themed evening on a slow Tuesday night? Especially if you have a following you know you can bring in -- your students, friends, dance peers, etc.

I just realized we're talking about a coffeeshop here, the odds he has a budget for such a thing arent' very good.

But maybe if you present him with some numbers, you can persuade him that a single dancer with a CD and some special snacks (hummus, falafel, tabbouleh) would make a nice themed evening on a slow Tuesday night? Especially if you have a following you know you can bring in -- your students, friends, dance peers, etc.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Living in Duluth and trying to make a go of this is really difficult. Nobody wants to try new things....

For what it's worth, it's not just Duluth. Trying to get new things going ANYWHERE can be difficult, and even when something goes, it may not last. That, as they say, is show biz baby. Places where there seems to be a lot of belly dancing usually took time and effort to build: many, many more nos than yeses to grow over a long period of time. Plenty of gals down in the cities have tried to get things going somewhere and not had it work out, etc. But keep working at it, developing/improving as a dancer and on making stuff happen, and law of averages....

With respect to this specific situation...
Can you focus your approach more? One that acknowledges his preference for live bands, but paints your vision of the "dancer night" and focuses on what it can do for HIM/his business rather than what you can't (provide a six piece Middle Eastern band). It sounds like so far you've been a little vague about what you want to do. Before you talk to him again, before you tell him the band thing won't work, prepare your pitch.

What examples can you offer of successful (CD music) dancer nights at coffeeshops? How did they work? How did they draw new business without alienating existing business or making people feel "weird" about having a dancer flapping around while they're having a quiet cup of coffee? How would it fit THEIR (shop's) image and how could you help market it? And how would you make the music situation work, realizing that one challenge could be the sound system? Live bands bring their own sound, but a dancer with a CD needs a way to play it. If the coffeeshop's sound system is in the office or behind the coffee bar, it may not be practical or desirable to have dancers changing music (or interupting busy staff to do it) Boomboxes look cheesy and rarely kick off enough sound.

Be prepared to explain why no band (and have some an advantage or two for "canned music"--eg ME bands are often at least 5 pieces, plus the dancer--space most small coffee shops don't have!) Simply, you could say, bands that play the style belly dance music most professional dancers use are rare and those that do exist have a specialized niche (weddings, parties, etc), so, unlike some other bands, they usually only pay for fee. (Why the "style" comment: It seems nearly everyone thinks they know some musicians who play belly dance music, but it's often some self-taught djembe-slapping "drummer" who wouldn't know a maksoum if it bit him in the a$$ and his friend the pan flute player who saw the movie "Aladin" and thinks he's got a good feel for the music now.....)