Thread: How do our prices get set, anyway?

Some jumbled thoughts have been rattling around in my shriveled up ol' brain for the last few days, and one thought actually coalesced enough to retrieve.

How do we set our prices and who gets to set them?

I guess this comes from various posts lately that have discussed BD entertainers being a luxury item that folks might otherwise want for a party, but said potential customers have decided to scale back on party expenses; about gig inquiries that go nowhere; about cancellations; about general economic doldrums.

Of course, there are regional differences, and sometimes pretty drastic differences within a relatively short distance; for example, Tinah (tattood1) lives in an area that will not support the same entertainment fees as, say, Los Angeles, which is only about 50 miles away.

Aside from regional differences . . .

Is everybody in the Los Angeles/Orange County (CA) area really getting gigs every weekend at $200-$300 for a 20-minute performance, or are these more sporatic than not? (I'm just using my area as the example; not picking on any of my dancing neighbors!)

If some dancers in the area are getting work virtually every weekend, what are they actually charging?

Have some dancers adjusted their prices for a softer market? I'd venture to say that a very large percentage of other businesses have, at least to some extent. Can dancers feel free to do the same within reason, or will the dreaded "undercutter" label be attached to someone who decides to lower his/her prices by 20%?

Undervaluing what we do is a big concern of mine. I'm just wondering if we're pricing ourselves out of the market right now . . .

Thoughts? Comments?

[ETA: I'm talking private gigs in this post -- most restaurant jobs continue to be woefully undervalued/underpaid]

Deborah

I haven't lowered my prices, although I am getting fewer calls for gigs. However, at this point in my 'career' I'm only interested in taking a gig if it pays me what I want. Otherwise I'll stay home.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I haven't lowered my prices, although I am getting fewer calls for gigs. However, at this point in my 'career' I'm only interested in taking a gig if it pays me what I want. Otherwise I'll stay home.

Understood; I'm of much the same mind.

For example, if the going rate in my area (completely hypothical!) was between $175 and $225 for a particular type of entertainment, and I was at, say, $200, I might not want to lower my fee because it's not worth it to me to go out for less. If, OTOH, I was at $225, I might consider accepting $200, if it seemed likely to bring more work -- but I wouldn't consider dropping to below $175 because why get paid less when we can get more?

Deborah

Hope this is not too off topic - a story in yesterday's paper was about the local bands who do road tours, and due to the price of gas and general economy, were either not touring, or were willing to be paid much, much less than normal. These are bands with albums, who have toured internationally, etc. It appeared that, as a community, they have generally accepted that lower prices are the norm for now.

I've just had a really busy summer and I charge more than I used to and more than the local "minimum". I did notice a slowing down of gig inquiries when the recession was at the top of the headlines every day, but it seems to have picked back up in the last couple months.
When people balk at the price I let them know there is a travel fee and "gas is so expensive these days". There is an obvious direct connection between gas prices and a dancer driving to their event. When I bring it up they seem to sympathize.
OUR expenses are higher, too so even at these higher rates we're not "making more".
Yes, we set the rates- but that means it can be our choice to stand firm and support rates that support the dance community. That's how I see it anyway. If a dancer really feels the need to lower her own personal rates- I'd recommend not going below the regional typical minimum. Think about how hard it is to get rates back up. Even once the economy picks back up people will balk at rates. They simply don't know how much live entertainment is worth.
Plus, at TamraHenna said- it's simply not worth going out for less.

Originally Posted by CFerhat

Hope this is not too off topic - a story in yesterday's paper was about the local bands who do road tours, and due to the price of gas and general economy, were either not touring, or were willing to be paid much, much less than normal. These are bands with albums, who have toured internationally, etc. It appeared that, as a community, they have generally accepted that lower prices are the norm for now.

I don't understand -- the bands are actually working for a lower rate AND paying the higher gas prices to get there?

Or are they working for the same rate but taking home less actual pay because their expenses are so much higher now? They don't feel like they can pass on the increase to the client because of the economy so they're eating the extra costs themselves?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I don't understand -- the bands are actually working for a lower rate AND paying the higher gas prices to get there?

Or are they working for the same rate but taking home less actual pay because their expenses are so much higher now? They don't feel like they can pass on the increase to the client because of the economy so they're eating the extra costs themselves?

The latter - gas is a bigger budget item and the take at the door has been smaller because of smaller crowds spending less.

ETA: My favorite bar/cabaret in town announced this week they were closing after five years of operation. Sigh. They cited smaller crowds, spending less.

Originally Posted by CFerhat

The latter - gas is a bigger budget item and the take at the door has been smaller because of smaller crowds spending less.

But they're working for a cut of the door in those cases. We do not in most cases...and this is a perfect example of why it's better not to.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

But they're working for a cut of the door in those cases. We do not in most cases...and this is a perfect example of why it's better not to.

Agreed.

Sorry, want to bring this back on topic. For me, I look at three things to set prices - 1) what long-time local dancers charge (in a small community, they tend to set the bar); 2) what local entertainers, like magicians charge, and 3) what dancers in areas similar to mine (population, region, etc.) charge.

Originally Posted by casbahdance

How do we set our prices and who gets to set them?
Is everybody in the Los Angeles/Orange County (CA) area really getting gigs every weekend at $200-$300 for a 20-minute performance, or are these more sporatic than not? (I'm just using my area as the example; not picking on any of my dancing neighbors!)
If some dancers in the area are getting work virtually every weekend, what are they actually charging?
Undervaluing what we do is a big concern of mine. I'm just wondering if we're pricing ourselves out of the market right now . . .
Thoughts? Comments?
[ETA: I'm talking private gigs in this post -- most restaurant jobs continue to be woefully undervalued/underpaid]
Deborah

Ahhh, CFerhat, thanks for bringing this back on target.
OK- back to Casbahdance's original questions from her post.

*How and who sets prices?
I agree with what CFerhat says. In our region (DC, Baltimore) we've taken what long term dancers charged (which had been the same for about 15 years), compared with regional entertainers (clowns! etc), and compared against our costs. We've done a lot of discussing on local boards and as a result have raised the rates for both regular venues and parties.

*is everyone in the region getting $200-300 gigs every weekend?
I can't answer for anyone else. I can say I charge $275-$350 right now and I've been busy. The local "minimum" is $200, so I charge above the average rates.
Yes, I get people calling around "price checking". Sometimes they call back and book me, sometimes they don't. No big deal to me - although I always hope it at least went to someone who charges professional rates and does a job the client is happy with.
As we have different definitions of busy- I been averaging about 2 parties a week through the summer at my usual rates and above. Some of these parties had more than one show. Some were Indian dance gigs- my Indian shows are $400 each.
There have been some slower weeks- more so in the spring when the recession was always at the top of the headlines. I honestly feel it's easing in this area. Hopefully even more when September hits after the life rush of "back to school". Then again- Ramadan is coming up. My "busyness" will likely ease up during Ramadan.
Many regular gigs were extra slow in the spring and early summer. Some of them seemed to have eased up a little now, despite that fact that it's August and vacation season. One regular venue has been notably busy and generous with tipping. I asked the owner what was going on. He says he's been advertising everywhere. What a concept.