Thread: Trade show performances for free?

My troupe was just contacted by a local BIG travel trade show (backed by a local network TV station) about performing. We've performed at another trade show a few times, had been paid well, and had a good time doing it. We've never really gotten any business from travel expo attendees though. Still, I told this one we might be interested and to send us the contract.

No talk of pay on the contract.

I wrote back, asking about the payment terms and quoting our starting rate for an event like this. Surprise surprise... we're supposed to jump at the opportunity to perform for free (oh... and secure the rights to all of the music we're using) because this is an excellent opportunity to promote our dance troupe to thousands of people!!

They did generously offer us a 10x10 booth to sit in from 9-5 both days of the event so we can further promote our dance troupe.... at a TRAVEL EXPO. Great... so we either perform for 30 minutes for free or we can spend 18 hours of our weekend sitting there for... yeah.... free (oh, but the booth is a $2500 value!!). Maybe if this were an entertainment expo it would be different. Maybe if we were sponsoring tours to Egypt and Turkey (actually San Fransisco since we're a tribal troupe) manning a booth would be worth it. Entertainment at these expos are icing on the cake. A couple shopping for their exotic honeymoon locale isn't suddenly going to decide that their money is better spent signing up for our classes.

Sad... that a corporation that puts on big trade shows sponsored by a local station to a major network can't cough up a few hundred dollars for entertainment.

Sadder still that someone out there will jump at the chance to take this gig.

No free shawarma even?

Constantly baffled.

Dancing for large numbers of people IS what we get paid to do, right? So, if every time we danced for a large gathering we considered it a great publicity opportunity and did it for free, how would we ever earn a living?

Deborah

Originally Posted by catwomyn

No free shawarma even?

No Shawarma... no Baklava. Not even likely there's water.

The travel expo that did pay us also had a hospitality room with snax, drinks, etc.

Is it considered terribly uncouth to just laugh in the face of people like this? Or laugh over the phone?

"You understand we're a PROFESSIONAL dance company, right? Perhaps you should contact the tap/ballet/jazz/acrobatics studio down the corner and see about getting some of their 11-year-old ballet students to perform instead."

Meow. I've started telling everybody I don't LEAVE MY HOUSE for less than $100. It's worth more to me to lay around on the couch in my jammies watching old Arabic movies than spend the however many hours it takes preparing for a gig that will just certainly get me GREAT publicity for my classes! (insert eyeroll here)

I have had my student troupes dance at events like this. I consider them a chance for them to work on their chops, a little education for the public, and exposure for my classes.

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

I have had my student troupes dance at events like this. I consider them a chance for them to work on their chops, a little education for the public, and exposure for my classes.

My student troupe has performed at a festival local to here and I allowed it for the same reason. They also dance monthly at a local club for the cover charge $$. I don't think they're ready for something like this particular travel show. The Expo coordinators are definitely expecting professional caliber performances for free. The contract alone is a good indication.

Students or no, this is a big corporation making big bucks off of this event and getting free press coverage of it. I'm not saying it doesn't cost money to put on these events, but at $2500 for the smallest display area and hundreds of travel companies on display it seems silly to not budget for entertainment.

Looking over their website, if a regular exhibitor at the expo wants stage time to do a demonstration or to entertain, it costs them an additional $500!!

Something's just not right here.

It happens to businesses besides dancers too. I've had major department store chains call me at my coffeehouse to offer me the "opportunity" to provide free coffee, including setting up, staffing and running the concession, for their gala grand openings, because there would be oh-so-much exposure for our brand. No charity fundraiser, just a grand opening to promote their commercial venture. Caller: "Wouldn't you like to have hundreds of attendees at our opening holding your logo cups and remembering your coffee?" Me: Sure, if someone is paying for the coffee. If I want advertising, there are a lot cheaper and easier ways to do it."

I will, however, donate both coffee and dance performances for legitimate fundraising events. Then it's a win-win situation, because I get to support a worthy organization which I would have wanted to support anyway, and they give me exposure, which is a bonus.

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

I have had my student troupes dance at events like this. I consider them a chance for them to work on their chops, a little education for the public, and exposure for my classes.

Since this particular event is backed by a local television station though, and since they are requesting that she obtain performing rights to the music, it seems very likely that part of the performance will be televised. In which case, I think the public deserves to see professional dancers, not students dancing for free.

There are a few events where I'll perform to publicize my classes, but it has to be MY target market.

I'm a stickler about where I'll let my students dance. Are there other adult student performers at the event? If not, people are going to *assume* they're pros, and there's a thousand people who now think they've seen what professional bellydance looks like.

When students are good enough to perform outside student venues, they're good enough to get paid the going rate. If they're not ready, they shouldn't be out there representing the dance.

They're not televising the performances per se, but they will be covering the event during their news programs. This happened for the last two travel shows we did with another company. I'm not sure how they dealt with music rights, but we were onscreen for about three seconds with a local TV personality walking past us and saying "and look, they have BELLYDANCERS!!"

Still though, you have a very good point. This particular expo might be covered differently since it's sponsored directly by a TV station. The other one we did just had media coverage, but no sponsorship so there were between 3 and 5 news crews there to do tidbits for their morning shows.

Oh, I hear ya there! I'm picky too! The club gig is right in the heart of my target market (where I live and teach.. literally halfway between two of my places of business). They are billed as my students and then I and some of my pro troupemates come out and do a set. The difference is most definitely noticeable. The thing about that gig is that the audience gets to see people "just like them" dancing and then they get to see the pros come out. My students get more folks talking to them than I do because of the approachability (and they're really friendly).

Same for the local festival they did.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

There are a few events where I'll perform to publicize my classes, but it has to be MY target market.

I'm a stickler about where I'll let my students dance. Are there other adult student performers at the event? If not, people are going to *assume* they're pros, and there's a thousand people who now think they've seen what professional bellydance looks like.

When students are good enough to perform outside student venues, they're good enough to get paid the going rate. If they're not ready, they shouldn't be out there representing the dance.

Kimahri had such a good idea related to using the booth to generate "payment" for the performance that I've had to rethink my original reaction. I could see how that could be a pain though. Still, they are offering something worth a considerable amount of money so it isn't really performing for nothing. Cold hard cash is always better in my opinion!

Originally Posted by mihri

Oh, I hear ya there! I'm picky too! The club gig is right in the heart of my target market (where I live and teach.. literally halfway between two of my places of business). They are billed as my students and then I and some of my pro troupemates come out and do a set. The difference is most definitely noticeable. The thing about that gig is that the audience gets to see people "just like them" dancing and then they get to see the pros come out. My students get more folks talking to them than I do because of the approachability (and they're really friendly).

Same for the local festival they did.

That's pretty much how I do it, too.

My post wasn't directed at you though, sorry. I was addressing Sharon's suggestion of having students dance at events like this for the exposure and experience. This particular event sounds way too big for students.

Originally Posted by mihri

My troupe was just contacted by a local BIG travel trade show (backed by a local network TV station) about performing. We've performed at another trade show a few times, had been paid well, and had a good time doing it. We've never really gotten any business from travel expo attendees though. Still, I told this one we might be interested and to send us the contract.

No talk of pay on the contract.

I wrote back, asking about the payment terms and quoting our starting rate for an event like this. Surprise surprise... we're supposed to jump at the opportunity to perform for free (oh... and secure the rights to all of the music we're using) because this is an excellent opportunity to promote our dance troupe to thousands of people!!

They did generously offer us a 10x10 booth to sit in from 9-5 both days of the event so we can further promote our dance troupe.... at a TRAVEL EXPO. Great... so we either perform for 30 minutes for free or we can spend 18 hours of our weekend sitting there for... yeah.... free (oh, but the booth is a $2500 value!!). Maybe if this were an entertainment expo it would be different. Maybe if we were sponsoring tours to Egypt and Turkey (actually San Fransisco since we're a tribal troupe) manning a booth would be worth it. Entertainment at these expos are icing on the cake. A couple shopping for their exotic honeymoon locale isn't suddenly going to decide that their money is better spent signing up for our classes.

Sad... that a corporation that puts on big trade shows sponsored by a local station to a major network can't cough up a few hundred dollars for entertainment.

Sadder still that someone out there will jump at the chance to take this gig.

How evil am I that I would take the booth and offer to sublet it out to a company with a travel interest for the bargain price of say....$1750?

~~Kimahri

Originally Posted by Kimahri

How evil am I that I would take the booth and offer to sublet it out to a company with a travel interest for the bargain price of say....$1750?

~~Kimahri

You'd be one smart cookie, actually.

Hope SatinWorship is along soon . . . she'd love this idea!

Deborah

Originally Posted by Kimahri

How evil am I that I would take the booth and offer to sublet it out to a company with a travel interest for the bargain price of say....$1750?

~~Kimahri

Dammit, Kim! Why didn't you post this before I rejected the offer? ..l;,

I bet they have a sublet clause in the contract. Unless you can get a connection going - say travel to Egypt / Turkey ...

Originally Posted by Asteria

I bet they have a sublet clause in the contract. Unless you can get a connection going - say travel to Egypt / Turkey ...

I would find someone specializing in Middle Eastern tourism, give them the special bargain price with the understanding that there will be some troupe material somewhere on display in the booth and dare someone to say something..l;,

~~Kimahri

Originally Posted by Kimahri

I would find someone specializing in Middle Eastern tourism, give them the special bargain price with the understanding that there will be some troupe material somewhere on display in the booth and dare someone to say something..l;,

~~Kimahri

Ooooo, maybe you are evil, but in the best ways possible!



Deborah

Originally Posted by Kimahri

... and dare someone to say something..l;,

Shaabi Girl wishes you WOULD say sumpin' about her booth. ..l;,

Hey, don't you have a major event in two days? Shouldn't you be curled up in a fetal position somewhere quivering?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Shaabi Girl wishes you WOULD say sumpin' about her booth. ..l;,

..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,

Hey, don't you have a major event in two days? Shouldn't you be curled up in a fetal position somewhere quivering?

She tried to crawl under her desk, but I was already there quivering away!

Originally Posted by Kimahri

How evil am I that I would take the booth and offer to sublet it out to a company with a travel interest for the bargain price of say....$1750?

~~Kimahri

I actually had that thought too! I just wouldn't want to say yes to the offer unless I had confirmation that I would be allowed to do this, and I had a company already lined up and interested in taking me up on it.... I wouldn't want the travel show police coming by mid-show and telling my sub-lessors that they are unauthorized to be there...

here we go again *sigh*
you should ask the trade show producers if they would rent you a theater, build you a set, hire your stage hands and do all your publicity for free because it would be good exposure for them.

see if they like being asked to do their job for free

Caller: "Wouldn't you like to have hundreds of attendees at our opening holding your logo cups and remembering your coffee?"

Oh, I hate that marketingspeak so much! "Wouldn't you like an opportunity to increase your turnover by 200 percent?" Pfft.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Oh, I hate that marketingspeak so much! "Wouldn't you like an opportunity to increase your turnover by 200 percent?" Pfft.

Not as much as you'd like some 'mug' to provide free coffee.

Originally Posted by Lilladancer

I actually had that thought too! I just wouldn't want to say yes to the offer unless I had confirmation that I would be allowed to do this, and I had a company already lined up and interested in taking me up on it.... I wouldn't want the travel show police coming by mid-show and telling my sub-lessors that they are unauthorized to be there...

Obviously it would be contingent upon there not being some sort of prohibitive language in the contract...my point was that if there were even so much as a good-sized loophole I wouldn't hesitate to turn the situation to my advantage.

~~Kimahri

Yeah.. there's prohibitive language in the contract... durnit. Only one vendor can occupy a booth, not two or more working in cahoots.

However, it begs the question, if this travel expo is *SO* popular and will bring in *SO* many people but they can't afford an entertainment budget, then why are they willing to give away a $2500 booth that an actual vendor paying $2500 could occupy? Perhaps the trade show isn't doing so well if they have booths to give away, eh?

Originally Posted by mihri

Yeah.. there's prohibitive language in the contract... durnit. Only one vendor can occupy a booth, not two or more working in cahoots.

However, it begs the question, if this travel expo is *SO* popular and will bring in *SO* many people but they can't afford an entertainment budget, then why are they willing to give away a $2500 booth that an actual vendor paying $2500 could occupy? Perhaps the trade show isn't doing so well if they have booths to give away, eh?

In all likelihood you have it pegged....