Thread: Sticky Issue, BD at a strip club

Ok, So I Know the issue of us BDs trying to become a respected dance.....but I have been asked to do a "SHOW" at the local gentlemens club. I have never been to one so i dont know what they will even expect from me, im in japan so im not sure if the customs are different her. It is considered an american style club. SO here is my question. Do i take the gig? Do i do "belly dance show"? I already know that it will not be just another act. I believe that they will be doing it on a week day NOT durring a strip show. Do i take it? if i do do I lower my self and Belly dance? What do you all think?????

I will e-mail u!

Hi Annwyn,

You can never pull off decent bellydance show in a strip club. The cliental of the club will think you are stripper that can bellydance. Strip clubs are the same whereever you go on earth!!!! Perosnally,, I never do any men only events where ever they may be, bachelor parties, sleazy night clubs gigs.

Careful with your choices. I can wirte a whole page about Japanese men and their attitude towards women leave alone the dancers and dancers in a strip club!!!

They think you are an exotic dancer. Strip clubs, expecially ones specializing in gaijin here, are not under different cultural rules.

It'll look bad, and I can't imagine it would go over that well when word gets back to the base, no matter how innocent your show is.

speaking as an ex-stripper "NO". that's a tough crowd that WILL expect you to take it off. they paid a cover charge to see tits & a@@ & they will assume you are a harem girl stripper. i envision heckling.

i knew somebody who worked as a stripper in japan & told me i could make $30,000 a month if i didn't mind guys trying to stick their hands in my pants all night. in the US there is some modicum of rules & laws i always heard foriegn stripclubs were rough.

very bad idea. tina

Originally Posted by annwyn

I have never been to one so i dont know what they will even expect from me, im in japan so im not sure if the customs are different her. It is considered an american style club. SO here is my question. Do i take the gig? Do i do "belly dance show"? I already know that it will not be just another act. I believe that they will be doing it on a week day NOT durring a strip show. Do i take it? if i do do I lower my self and Belly dance? What do you all think?????

Once more I urge NOT to take the gig. Do not accept a gig when you do not know what is expected of you. You need to learn to set your conditions. Your last Okinawan gig set you back money and caused you stress because you didn't set higher conditions for yourself and the owner took advantange of that.

This is going to sound harsh: If you can't be firm about what conditions you are willing to work under, and negotiate for those conditions, you might not be ready to perform...at least not to be the first performer to work at a venue.

You're in an area where you are a rare commodity, the power should be in your hands.

This would be a good time to contact your former teachers for advice as well.

Bellydancing is growing in Japan. If you aren't assertive about what are good working conditions, it's going to be harder for those who follow.

I think my main problem, is my former teachers. Some I can not get in contact with, others are too busy, and yet others do not preform or think that they should charge very little or not at all (which I do not agree with)....So asking them is not really possible. That is why I post here on Bhuz, For advice. It is hard starting in a new country living and dancing, and i appreciate all your advice, it is really helpful, and with out other dancers here to support me I can use all the support I can get, Thank you

I am not going to take the gig at the Strip Club. I had considered it there for a second but after further consideration if my 2nd big gig on this Island is there, there is no way ill get more respectful paying gigs in the future.

Ozma,
If I am not the first performer, then who will be? The students that watched 3 videos and are now Pros? (sarcasm) I suffer from lack of self esteem not lack of dance experience. I am the only "dancer" that I know here that actually has training (there is one down in naha but spends 1/2 the year in other counties) I am very unsure of how to get gigs here in okinawa (in the states NO PROB) I want to dance, bring dance to okinawa, that is where the prob with my last gig came in, I wanted to dance more than I wanted to get paid. Isnt that what it should be about? Dance? not money? I realise that pay plays an important part in making a professiosal, and Bd a respected art. But what about just the love of the dance?

Originally Posted by annwyn

Isnt that what it should be about? Dance? not money?

I don't think Ozma was questioning your dance skill but rather suggesting that you think about your long-term goals. If you're hoping to establish a dance industry in your area, you have to demand fair pay and thereby demonstrate to people who know nothing about Middle Eastern dance that your art is worth paying to see. Since there are no other dancers in your area, what you do now will set the standard for how dancers will be paid and treated there in the future.

If you would rather perform without having to worry about pay, I'm sure you can create suitable opportunities for that as well. You could check whether there are local community or cultural festivals where you can dance, you could contact nursing homes, hospitals, and schools to see if they would be interested in a volunteer performance. But I don't see how accepting what should be professional gigs for low or no fees will garner respect for you or for the dance, and doing so will in fact probably stifle your love of the dance in the long term.

Annwyn,
I'm glad you've decided not to take the gig at the strip club. It would only serve to discredit the dance (and most likely you as well) in a community obviously unfamiliar with it. I understand where you're coming from when you say you care more about the dance than about the money, and I think sometimes that can cloud our judgment - we want to dance so badly that we'll take just about any opportunity to do so. Is there any possibility that you can reach out to the women in the area to generate interest, by performing or doing a combination of teaching and performing at bridal showers, or baby showers or something like that? I don't know if Japanese customs are similar in this way to Americans but maybe there are opportunities like this that would allow you to perform and show them what it's really about. I hope the best for you - I know something will work out if you stay focused and don't give up.
Take care,
Haleema

Things can just be so frustrating sometimes, what do you do, not dance becuse peope wont pay or dance and lower the $ standards...why does it have to be so frustrating.....why cant people just pay and enjoy what they get. I went to another resturant and talked to the owner, sh was SOOO excited took all my info, card, flyer etc and talked and talked, then when asked the price she instantly frowned and said she would call me, NEVER heard from her......what is wrong with people......

i think you just wanted people to tell you it's "ok" & we didn't & you're ticked. if you love the dance so much go do it. tina

Originally Posted by annwyn

Things can just be so frustrating sometimes, what do you do, not dance becuse peope wont pay or dance and lower the $ standards...why does it have to be so frustrating.....why cant people just pay and enjoy what they get. I went to another resturant and talked to the owner, sh was SOOO excited took all my info, card, flyer etc and talked and talked, then when asked the price she instantly frowned and said she would call me, NEVER heard from her......what is wrong with people......

You are not entitled to work. Just because you love to dance, you can't allow yourself to feel entitled to people giving you work. Every dancer has to work very hard to build his or her niche, and you're only hurting yourself if you are so focused on short term gigs that you hamstring your future opportunities.

Honestly, I love my day job, I'm passionate about it, and have made a lot of sacrifices for my career. And yet I have passed on job opportunities where I felt the compensation was not what I was worth. Loving what you do is not enough, you have to respect your own skills and worth.

Definitely, if you are looking for venues just to *dance*, contact nursing homes and adult day care facilities. They have small entertainment budgets and can't afford much, but the audience will be the most appreciative and respectful audience you've ever danced for (although, I did have an elderly lady at my last nursing home gig smack my a$$ with a tambourine every time I danced by her.....w.: )

Well if its for the love of the dance then you don't need a gig. Find a park and dance... if its about the dance..... you have a captive audience of on lookers..... Isn't it how it was done in the old days? dancing in open markets... I know a dancer that just does that... She puts out a tip jar and dances at the Market on weekends....

My point is it is so frustrating....and that is it....frustrating.....

Im not TICKED becuse you told me not to go do it, if i was going to do it anyways i wouldnt have asked....I value other dancers opinions thats why i asked......

It just sux that the only place that is actually willing to pay happens to be a not so great place. The resturants here wont pay what you ask. I though when I got here that HEY there are no other dancers this will be great ill have tones of gigs. Now I know why there are no other dancers, becuse no one will pay them......Frustration....

Annwyn, I am not questioning your ability to dance, or your right to. I am saying that if you are going to be the first person to dance at a place that you have to get your self estime issues in order and figure out what is expected of you, what you deserve as a dancer, and blaze that territory!

Your self-estime is going to be more damaged by taking jobs where you don't know what is expected of you. If you don't figure out what you'll do and what you wont and what to charge then you are vulnerable to all sort of changes that are asked of you because you didn't set any rules.

If money isn't an issue, then investigate if there are charity events you can volunteer, or find a cafe that'll let you throw a small bellydance night event and take your risks, find a park, get what free bi-lingual event information there is available and start scouting.

P.S. Make sure to have a set price in Yen, not dollars. Local buisnesses won't want to check the exchange rates.

hmmmm yen, that might be my problem...i have it in $ also my web site is in english becuse i dont know how to create it in 2 languages, well any other language for that matter. I created it in yahoo page builder...have any suggestions?

Just put your prices in Yen. All you have to do is write YEN in English. People will understand. Don't take this the wrong way, but you are a part of the American army base-you might have to work extra hard to get people to trust and like you here. And part of that can be doing things the way the Japanese do.

You don't really need prices though if you look at other respected dancers in Japan, most of them don't have prices-which can work to our advantage because we can charge MORE.

i understand your frustration.

the restaurants in brussels here also do not pay what i'm willing to dance for. it's only worht it if you live around the corner and like some dancers have like three regular places and hop from one to the next on a friday and saterday night. for me, coming from another close by town, not much worth it. and even if i could do two on a night, it's just so much below i would charge. and restaurant dancing is not really what i want to do much, at least not how it is in this country (different story, OT). and i do not want to be dancing at these places that badly that i'd let myself me exploited.

so i dont dance at them, it's simple.

my dance income comes mostly from teaching and the occasional WELL paid company gig, and the occasional OK paid private parties. at best a couple per month. and at the moment tons and tons of hennights.

do i wish i could perform more? YES
i try to get my fill of performing by also dancing at hafla's, organising performance opps for my students, etc, participating in all kinds of artistic productions, etc.

both that, and getting those well paid company gigs is a lot of hard work... and yes, i'm jealous when these american dancers here (waves at all my us friends) talk about their 5 gigs per week and the 100 costumes they have on rotation for that. but this is just how the situation is in THIS area, so i have to make the best of it...

it sounds to me like you also need to look around and see what alternatives you can create for yourself.

Artemisia

Originally Posted by annwyn

My point is it is so frustrating....and that is it....frustrating.....

Im not TICKED becuse you told me not to go do it, if i was going to do it anyways i wouldnt have asked....I value other dancers opinions thats why i asked......

It just sux that the only place that is actually willing to pay happens to be a not so great place. The resturants here wont pay what you ask. I though when I got here that HEY there are no other dancers this will be great ill have tones of gigs. Now I know why there are no other dancers, becuse no one will pay them......Frustration....

No where do restaurants pay what we're worth. It's Very hard to get restaurants to pay - and once the price is lowered, (undercutting and the like) it's forever to get them back up.
Stick around on bhuz for a bit, and the restaurant/dancer pay issue comes up quite regularly.

Just to play devil's advocate - there is a dancer in my area who has done some "special" shows (i.e. advertised as BD) at a strip club. She did not strip. She simply did her performance. She said the feedback she got was great, made some great tips, and even got some of the ladies in the audience up on the stage for a "mini lesson". I respect this dancer a lot, she's been dancing for something like 25 years. I trust that she would never compromise her integrity - ever. I acknowledge that not all experiences are the same and cultural differences apply in this case.

Just thought I'd offer a different perspective.

annwyn - it seems like though you are a good dancer, you are a poor negotiator and promoter. Is there a friend of yours who could do the negotiation and promoting, preferably someone who isn't in the dance community ? You can concentrate on the dancing, and your friend can do the contracts/money/publicity. It seems like you know what you want (standard/money etc.) , but when there is the juicy chance of a gig passing in front of you, you weaken. I would encourage you to keep emailing into buzz to get opinions on things, and keep trying in your area.

They have hostess bars in Japan if you just want to talk and look at beautiful girls-and even some of them have nude entertainment. If this is a strip bar, I'm pretty sure they are going to want to see a birthday suit.

in my time i never heard of stripclub having "other stuff" nights for lack of a term. i don't know women who would set foot in the place anyway. tina

I've been to stripclubs a couple of times as I really admire the girls who give away the poledance shows. No all ofcourse but some are really good and as I did a poledance lesson once I know how hard it is. I just believe poledancing is an art form, just like bellydancing is.

B

Originally Posted by tattood1

in my time i never heard of stripclub having "other stuff" nights for lack of a term. i don't know women who would set foot in the place anyway. tina

yay i used to pole dance. it's hard. i would love to set one up in my house.

on a side note; there is no such thing as a pole dancer or a lap dancer. they are all exotic dancers. some happen to know how to pole dance. usually you teach yourself on slow nights. some clubs have lap dancing.

nobody in the business calls themselves a pole dancer/lap dancer it just happens to be a part of a girl's routine. many floor work too. they are not called floor dancers. i knew one who did magic tricks she was not called a magic dancer.

there is no such thing as pole dance night it just happens on a schedule of 20 girls one does it.

when i said "other stuff" i meant i never heard of a stripclub having nights where they would shut down the strip show & have another type of entertainment. i've heard of alternating between girl & boy strippers though.

i knew one club that toyed with idea of having bands on slow nights thinking over all it would bring the club to the attention of more men BUT then they realized they would have to take the pole down & they just weren't sure people would come. that people (women) would think strippers were still there. so they didn't do it.

tina

Magic dancer! I love it! Watch me disappear.......l;,

For some reason I was under the impression that a Gentlemens Club is more upscale than a strip club, featuring Burlesque acts and so forth. If it's just a common strip club then pfffffffffft! Forget that! However if it's a place that has a more refined palate and caters to men who like to watch women dance rather than just see flesh... thats a different kind of animal. If they pay you to "dance" then dance. It's not your problem if they misunderstood what you do. And even if it is a misunderstanding theres always the fantastic probability that the guys will really enjoy the show as its presented without any lasciviousness. At events like that you should always have a male guardian with you anyway. Don't you have a contract that you have patrons sign? Just include a "grabbing clause" that states that if someone tries to touch you the show is over without refund. Always make sure you get paid upfront. You're the boss really. Put on a good show and act like you're worth every penny.

Also I think its a bit sexist to just assume that all men want is to see naked women as if men we're incapable of appreciating art. Yes there are people like that out there but if you know how to handle yourself and grow some self confidence you will not have to be affraid of them. Many men and women enjoy watching dancers because of the complexity of the art. Believe me... if you dance like a pro, act like a pro, and conduct business like a pro... you will be less likely to be taken advantage of. Find out what kind of place it is and never sell yourself short.

On a side note, an old student of mine just transferred to Japan with the Air Force recently. Her name is Rehanna, maybe you'll bump into her? She's into the Tribal Fusion schtuff. *chuckles*

Good luck!
~*Genisis*~

Originally Posted by Genisis

Also I think its a bit sexist to just assume that all men want is to see naked women as if men we're incapable of appreciating art.

I could be mistaken, but I thought the assumption was specifically that men in a *strip club* are only interested in seeing women who are going to strip. That doesn't seem sexist or unfair to me.

Also, 'gentlemen's club' is a euphemism for 'strip club,' at least where I live. The dirtiest, vilest thinnest-veneer-for-prostitution clubs in East St. Louis all say 'Gentlemen's Club" in peeling hand-painted letters over the door.

burlesque was from approx. 30's -60's.

by the 70's they had all gone real hard core. topless/nude dancers & even topless/nude waitresses & bar staff. standard cossie was a bathrobe & mules.

in the west the clubs were controlled by bike gangs notably the hell's angel. it was not unusual to see girls with "property of the hell's angels" tattooed on their butt. i worked with two.

by the 80's municipalities had enough with sleazy stripclub that were magnates for crime & started aggressively closing them down. the clientele wasn't happy either. going to a stripclub wasn't perceived as "cool" by the younger generation it was perceived as really gross & possibly dangerous.

by the late 80's smart club owners realized they needed to change or else. this was the era of the yuppie. stripclubs in texas started the trend of the "gentleman's" club. they were clean, decorated, served high end beverages & expensive food, took credit cards & most importantly were more selective about the girls they hired & then required them to cover tattoos, wear evening gowns etc.

enter ME. i worked in both type of places. frankly the dancing wasn't different. these places just put a "classy" veneer on it. lipstick on a pig really. now the term gentleman's club is used by everybody even if it is a dive bar.

this is not neo-burlesque in anyway shape or form. this is just exotic dancing packaged to be more palatable to the suburbanites. tina