Thread: Teacher Professionalism

Teachers work hard to be professionals and to show the general public that our dance is a legit art form.

So...why do so many belly dance teachers still not carry insurance, pay taxes, keep current 1st aid cert., and pay music licensing?

Do individual ballet teachers pay music licensing? I'm professing my own ignorance here, but aren't those licensing fees pretty steep? How would an individual ever be able to afford to teach?

I file with the IRS. I don't carry insurance, and I hadn't thought about renewing my first aid certification, but I teach at a dance studio, and I am fairly certain that they at least carry some kind of liability insurance.

Well, if a teacher is teaching at a studio, gym, university, etc. the venue usually is responsible for music licensing and liability insurance.

I pay taxes on my dance income, and itemize my dance expenditures on my deductions.

My university requires everyone to have CPR training.

Sedonia

Originally Posted by Arwen

Teachers work hard to be professionals and to show the general public that our dance is a legit art form.

So...why do so many belly dance teachers still not carry insurance, pay taxes, keep current 1st aid cert., and pay music licensing?

Why do you assume that so many don't? I do. (and yes, it's the venue's responsibiliyt to pay the music licensing (parks department, studio, health club).

Originally Posted by Arwen

Teachers work hard to be professionals and to show the general public that our dance is a legit art form.

So...why do so many belly dance teachers still not carry insurance, pay taxes, keep current 1st aid cert., and pay music licensing?

I do. (and yes, it's the venue's responsibiliyt to pay the music licensing (parks department, studio, health club).

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Why do you assume that so many don't? I do. (and yes, it's the venue's responsibiliyt to pay the music licensing (parks department, studio, health club).

My instructor does too, and she does pay attention to music licensing laws (she owns her own studio). To this day I can still hear the music we practiced to over and over and over and over to (,s:: )in the beg/int. classes.

And then there are the teachers who burn homemade CD's of the music they use in class

Or the ones who encourage their students to do "group buys" of videos and participate in the process - ie, everyone puts money in the pot, someone buys a collection of videos with it, and then makes copies of all the videos so that each participant receives a full set of pirated copies

Or the ones who call their students racist names, or stand by and benignly smile, without objecting, when they witness students saying openly rude or racist things to classmates

Or the ones who rarely get any continuing education of any kind even after teaching for years

Or the ones who send beginner students to perform at restaurants as "the dancer" (ie, without it being a "student night")

Just a question re: music license

How does one go about this? I teach through a Park District, but I'm considered a contract employee. Do I need to be paying a fee to use the music I play in my class?

Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like to make sure I'm being legit about this. I pay taxes and am covered by the district's liability insurance but hadn't heard about licensing for music before.

Forgive me if I'm not the first in line to pay outrageous music licensing fees on my $35-50 a class teachers salary. I mean, I KNOW I'm taking money out of the pockets of millionaires but really, a girl's got to buy her costumes, you know?

Edited to add: Sorry for the sarcasm, but I get really irritated about this whole music licensing thing, when it comes to the music I use in class. I mean, what the heck is music for if I can't use it to dance too, except in my own house?? It bothers me that people have to pay to play music. If I buy the CD, isn't that enough???

Well, if you don't pay your tax, they will get you in the end.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

Forgive me if I'm not the first in line to pay outrageous music licensing fees on my $35-50 a class teachers salary. I mean, I KNOW I'm taking money out of the pockets of millionaires but really, a girl's got to buy her costumes, you know?

Edited to add: Sorry for the sarcasm, but I get really irritated about this whole music licensing thing, when it comes to the music I use in class. I mean, what the heck is music for if I can't use it to dance too, except in my own house?? It bothers me that people have to pay to play music. If I buy the CD, isn't that enough???

Here here. I'm especially reticent to pay a national music body any licence fees given that (a) none of my CD's were distributed by local companies and (b) a lot of the stuff that I've acquired from the Middle Eat was a ripped off copy in the first place.

I have insurance, but it really irks me that I have to provide my own when the students are already covered by the venue. One place told me that, sure, they had public liability insurance that would cover my students if a bit of building fell on them, but I still had to cover for other potentialities...such as if one student punched another. .w.: Yeah, they get into fist fights often. Bellydance is just that kinda environment.. ..c::

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

Do individual ballet teachers pay music licensing? I'm professing my own ignorance here, but aren't those licensing fees pretty steep? How would an individual ever be able to afford to teach?

I file with the IRS. I don't carry insurance, and I hadn't thought about renewing my first aid certification, but I teach at a dance studio, and I am fairly certain that they at least carry some kind of liability insurance.

Yes, ballet teachers pay music licensing. Because they usually have so many students, they can afford it. Also, when you are a studio, all the teachers fall under one umbrella and it becomes much cheaper. I'd ask the owner about the liability insurance and music licensing, you may already be covered and not know it!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Why do you assume that so many don't? I do. (and yes, it's the venue's responsibiliyt to pay the music licensing (parks department, studio, health club).

Maybe it's just my neck of the woods...

Originally Posted by BabsGrrrl

Just a question re: music license

How does one go about this? I teach through a Park District, but I'm considered a contract employee. Do I need to be paying a fee to use the music I play in my class?

Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like to make sure I'm being legit about this. I pay taxes and am covered by the district's liability insurance but hadn't heard about licensing for music before.

I would ask the Park District. I'm betting they already are paying the fee. If they aren't they should do this for you.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

Forgive me if I'm not the first in line to pay outrageous music licensing fees on my $35-50 a class teachers salary. I mean, I KNOW I'm taking money out of the pockets of millionaires but really, a girl's got to buy her costumes, you know?

Edited to add: Sorry for the sarcasm, but I get really irritated about this whole music licensing thing, when it comes to the music I use in class. I mean, what the heck is music for if I can't use it to dance too, except in my own house?? It bothers me that people have to pay to play music. If I buy the CD, isn't that enough???

Private use is what buying a $10-$25 CD is for. You pay for the physical CD and the right to listen to it. Music licensing is paying to use someone else's hard work for your profit. It's the same reason why you can't buy Spiderman on DVD and show it at your house for $1 movie night. It is illegal. And I have no sympathy for $35-50 class teachers. I get $10.40 an hour after my taxes, music licensing, insurance, etc. are paid.

Originally Posted by Arwen

I get $10.40 an hour after my taxes, music licensing, insurance, etc. are paid.

And that's exactly why it's tempting for teachers to cut corners and not pay licencingshmicencing fees. We shoudln't have to starve for our art - especially if it also doubles as our job!

I do pay insurance and taxes, have first aid training am a trained TEACHER and the studios I teach at have music licences
I am sure here in the UK some might not fall into line. They may not earn enough to pay taxes on it but a far worse crime as far as I am concerned is one which Shira stated: the teacher who isn't a student as well. There is no excuse over here now for not attending workshops at the Festivals that are springing up.

Where's the smug smiley with a halo...I do all those things. Not doing them could result in me taking a big whack to my wallet. I'm not risking that. Those are all risks that the teacher bears herself (taxman comes knocking, student deciding to sue), and students are only affected indirectly. Worse crimes against "professionalism" IMO (ah ha, I can use this one! .p:: ) would be belittling your students, not letting them now about other opportunities for development, not continuing your own development or just plain old not knowing what you're doing.

i know tons and tons of local dancers who do all their dancing, teaching and gigging without being registered as anything. no taxes, no insurance, never mind music licensing.

wanted to add: we do do (almost) everything above board, sometimes that looses me jobs, often that gets me jobs cause many of my clients need a receipt and many dancers cant write them, i can.

i only pay music license for the parties i organise myself, most of the places where i teach have a general license (sports centres and such) and when i'm hired to perform it's the person booking me who is responsible. i do carry my insurance, even though the places where we teach have one to. but just to be safe and for when we organise stuff ourselves.

i'd love to organise a proper show and one of the main reasons i have not yet is because the music license is OUTRAGEOUS (like 300€). (add to that the price of renting the venue, technician, fire insurance, etc, and there is NO way we can break even).

Yes, ballet teachers pay music licensing. Because they usually have so many students, they can afford it. Also, when you are a studio, all the teachers fall under one umbrella and it becomes much cheaper. I'd ask the owner about the liability insurance and music licensing, you may already be covered and not know it!

I was a ballet teacher for years before I became a bellydancer, and I have never even heard of individual teachers purchasing any sort of licensing for music. I know that no one working at my studios does so. Also, many tap/jazz/ballet teachers get far less for their classes than do speciality teachers like bellydance. I got $15 per class for teaching ballet to little kids. Wouldn't that have been hilarious if I decided to pay licensing fees with my $15. I might have ended up paying to teach.

Studios pay their licensing fees, and that is sufficient. The burden is not on the individual teachers to do so.

I also come from a dance studio background where, every year around recital time, our teacher told us to bring in our tapes so she could make a copy of the song for us to practice the dance at home. Hate to burst your bubble, but every dance studio I've ever had any experience with does this all the time. I got my tape every year growing up - all through the 80's - and amazingly, despite my immoral and illegal use of their music, Michael Jackson, Madonna, and Paula Abdul STILL managed to scrape by. I'm sure I put a big dent in their wallet, but they managed.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Or the ones who call their students racist names, or stand by and benignly smile, without objecting, when they witness students saying openly rude or racist things to classmates

Or the ones who rarely get any continuing education of any kind even after teaching for years

Or the ones who send beginner students to perform at restaurants as "the dancer" (ie, without it being a "student night")

I agree that these are legitimate things that make a teacher unprofessional. I can't imagine why a teacher would ever call her students racist names, but if she did, she would certainly be unprofessional.

Originally Posted by Arwen

Teachers work hard to be professionals and to show the general public that our dance is a legit art form.

So...why do so many belly dance teachers still not carry insurance, pay taxes, keep current 1st aid cert., and pay music licensing?

pay music licensening? We buy the CD;s don't we? Don't even get me started about that...........and yes, I know about ascap, plenty about ascap.

Personally, have insurance, have an American Heart Assoc. card, and pay taxes, plenty of them, so that is a huge blanket statement you just made.

It is a huge blanket statment - encompassing almost all bellydance teachers but yet forgetting that most dance and aerobics teachers of and and all styles do the exact same thing you described.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

It is a huge blanket statment - encompassing almost all bellydance teachers but yet forgetting that most dance and aerobics teachers of and and all styles do the exact same thing you described.

yes. absolutely.

i didnt know i had to pay music licensing for music i play in class....

I dont sell copies however, I order the cds for the students who want the music and show them the original cds when they ask about a song they like. I also noticed that when i made that clear for my students, another teacher in the school ( hip hop) started giving the names of the songs he used instead of offereing to copy the music.

And one reason i never sell the dvds of my gala-workshops shows is because of the music rights. there is plenty of dvds out there that didnt get authorisation from the artists.

Not all dancers seem to understand that the dancers who choose to produce music are not millionaires, copying a song from 50 cents , is not the same at all as copying a song by an artist who is starting out or in a small market.
I know a few dancers who produced cds and they are very very far from being millionaires.
for a couple of years there was just remixes and compilations being made, no one wanted to take the risk of producing an original cd with an orchestra. If you want more cds by Jalilah, Serpentine , the cifuentes and other people who make the effort to produce good music for us , stop selling copies to students and copying songs.
when i explain this to my students they understand and buy the original ( well most of them i guess)

The schools i work at have insurance, i have my CPR certification and I pay taxes.

Originally Posted by Arwen

Private use is what buying a $10-$25 CD is for. You pay for the physical CD and the right to listen to it. Music licensing is paying to use someone else's hard work for your profit. It's the same reason why you can't buy Spiderman on DVD and show it at your house for $1 movie night. It is illegal. And I have no sympathy for $35-50 class teachers. I get $10.40 an hour after my taxes, music licensing, insurance, etc. are paid.

Sorry to disagree here. We are not taking advantage of musician's hard work to play music for use. It is not the same as charging $1 for a movie night.

Say I buy a DVD, spiderman, and invite friends over, should I have to pay a licensing fee.

Licensing fee's for music are a racket. We buy the CD, therefore it is ours. If I want to play the cd blasting out of my car and someone walks buy and hears it, does that mean I have to pay extra for it.

give me a break.

and by the way, daniela lives in NYC, where $35 to $50 per class is not alot of money.
believe me, I've only been out of NYC for 13 years so I know.......

I have an idea, everytime someone looks at my image, I want to charge a licensing fee. After all, my hard work of getting my hair done professionally, nails, all the makeup I buy, the time of applying it.
I think glancing upon my image is taking advantage of me and my photographer's hard work, so I want $1500 per year from everyone....

Edited to add: I think ascap should pay US for using their music, it's free advertising isn't it? People hear the music, run out and buy it?

And if you have a website, ascap should be paying part of it as part of a co-marketing co-branding program.

Now, all I have to do is hire third rate gangsters to go shake down the little kids in their tutus during performances and demand $1500 per year.

Originally Posted by *maria*

I have an idea, everytime someone looks at my image, I want to charge a licensing fee. After all, my hard work of getting my hair done professionally, nails, all the makeup I buy, the time of applying it.
I think glancing upon my image is taking advantage of me and my photographer's hard work, so I want $1500 per year from everyone....

LOL! Maria, we are totally on the same page on this. Maybe it's our tough NY-native attitude?:zillevil:

I just think this whole talk of dance teachers paying licensing fees is such a joke. I am getting married, and if I could tell you all of the vendors we have encountered that have offered us discounts for paying cash, you would all be appalled. And we are not talking a few dollars here and there. We are talking tens of thousands of dollars. Literally. Tens of thousands of dollars. Vendors have an unwritten policy that if you pay them cash, you get a discount. Why do you think that is? Is it because they really like you, and they are going to pay Uncle Sam out of their own pocket for you? Um, no. It's because that money will go unreported and straight into their pocket.

So, bellydance teachers are not the only immoral ones trying to skirt the law....p::

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

LOL! Maria, we are totally on the same page on this. Maybe it's our tough NY-native attitude?:zillevil:

I just think this whole talk of dance teachers paying licensing fees is such a joke. I:

LOL! Can't wait to have coffee with you this July!

Hey - my time and space is worth alot of money, so the time that I spend promoting their material, I should be compensated for. I should also get additional revenue through sales....

So how could I enforce my commissions, hmmmm......
maybe I need DANCECAP! an organization formed to shake down music publishers, for sales commissions and co-marketing expenses.

but that is vendors that are licensed and are payong taxes, no, they are trying to skim off some here and there. whether you agree with that or not it's a different thing. i guess we all do that. apparently we belgians (together with the italians) are notorious for it.

what i do find annoying is BD teachers (or other dance) that dont report anything, teach without any insurance, etc etc. in my experience they are also often the undercutters...