Thread: Ethical dilemma: stolen choreography

I recently became aware that in a show I participated in recently, one local group of dancers used the exact same choreograpy of a very very well known belly dance troupe and the performance is on youtube. Step by step the same even down to the hand gestures. Now, I truly believe that most of the members are ignorant of the fact that their "choreographer" didn't really choreograph the music and they are laboring under the misapprehension that they performed an original choreograph. There was absolutely no credit given to the original choreographer.

One of the innocent ladies has now posted this clip on her website and on youtube. To make matters worse, I have a very strong suspicion that this group is now preparing to to use another "borrowed" choreography in an upcoming show.

My dilemma is this. There is not enough time before the next show for the group to learn a new number with an original choreography. (Well there is if they started immediately.) I definitely feel the need to point this out not only to the innocent troupe members and especially the troupe sponsor who would be horrified if she found this out. She values honesty and truth above all things and she will be very upset once she finds this out. And I'm fairly certain the group members will turn on the so called choreograher and just cause all sort of drama.

The thing is, all these ladies contribute to the show in so many other ways drama is the last thing we need right now. There's enough stress as it is.

Do I wait until after the show to see if they do indeed use someone else's choreography a second time and then say something, or do I inform the innocent members and let them handle it, or do I just tell the sponsor and let her deal with it?

What do bhuzzers suggest?

Or have someone from Bhuz comment on the youtube clip???

A couple of things I'm not clear on.

In what capacity do you feel called upon to step in? Are you involved with the troupe in question in some way? Or with the event? Or are you just a shell-shocked bystander? Close friend of the troupe director? Or the event organizer?

What is your fear that they'll perform another stolen choreo based upon? Just a gut instinct? Or have you seen what they're working on?

Are you 100% certain they stole the choreo? If all the members of the group attended a workshop where the choreo was taught, they may be entitled to perform it and only be guilty of not crediting the choreographer.

All of the above would affect how I'd handle the situation, and whether I'd say anything.

Timing is not the issue here - the focus is doing the right thing. Surely if they have two routines in their performance repertoire they have others, they can repeat a previous choreography. The situation can be brought to their attention by someone here on Bhuz, by an anonymous letter or email or even direct contact from you. Either way the troupe's reputation is also at stake. It sounds like a wonderful group, they would not want the reputation of being less than honorable.

Originally Posted by norma

One of the innocent ladies has now posted this clip on her website and on youtube.

I think I'd be tempted to e-mail this lady, very privately, and say 'Love the clip, you ladies did a great job and really did justice to _________'s choreography! Maybe you didn't realize, though, that it's customary to give credit to the choreographer and thank her for her permission to perform it. Otherwise people who recognize the dance from (name of video or link to youtube clip of same) might think you've stolen it."

As usual, what Lauren said.

I'm actively involved in the upcoming event and a friend of the sponser. They did not learn the routine at a workshop. The "choreographer" is portraying it as her own idea.

The reason I think that they are going to borrow another choreo is that in the youtube clip of the famous dancers, the group peforms to 2 songs. This group performed to the second song and now they are planning on performing to the first song in the clip. I haven't seen the choreo yet but what are the odds?

Thanks, Lauren. I think your suggestion will cause the least amount of drama.

Since you're friends with the sponsor, I would suggest privately enlightening her to the situation, with a link to the youtube clip of the original choreography. Surely she would want to be alerted that her choreographer is stealing someone else's work.

The longer you wait to tell her, the more disruptive the impact on her troupe will be. Every day that you delay in telling her is another day that everyone spends trying to memorize, trying to rehearse, etc.

If you're actively involved as an *organizer* of the event, then you can -- and maybe should -- be a lot more direct. In that case, I'd discuss the issue with my friend/partner, then contact the troupe director and say 'At our last event, your group performed a choreography by _________ without giving credit. Did you have permission to perform his/her dance?' If not, I'd say 'We're not comfortable with presenting unauthorized material on our stage, and we have to ask that it not happen again.'

If you're only involved as another performer, then you have no authority and you're meddling in other peoples' affairs, which must be done gently. But, as a friend of the organizer, you can certainly point out that her last show included an uncredited use of a choreography (I'd be VERY cautious about throwing around the word 'stolen') and that the same troupe plans to perform another song from the same volume and it could be an issue again. But once you've provided your friend with the basic info (not any conjecture about what probably or might have happened, just the facts as you know them) then you have to step back and let her decide whether it's important to her or not.

I want to be Lauren when I grow up . . .

<sigh>

Deborah

I agree that this issue needs to be addressed in some sort of fashion, because those of us who work hard at creating choreographies don't like to see other people use them without our permission. I also agree that the sooner the better, and honestly. And yes, I would say Lauren has given some very good advice on this subject and how to handle such a situation that all of us should take notes on. Thanks for the advice Lauren, and thank you Norma for bringing these issues to the attention of the dance community.

Hi,

What do you do if you are in a setting where you can't credit the original choreographer? Sometimes there aren't any introductions made, no programs...of course if it's video you can credit later but I've been involved in a few performances with no intros and no good way to credit others (I've thought of someone holding up a sign sometimes, heh).

Just thought I'd put that out there...

The flip side of this is that when dancers *do* copy other dancers' choreographies, the jig is often up very quickly thanks to YouTube. A couple of dancers known to me presented a version of a fairly well-known, quirky, unconventional routine by a couple of fairly well known BDers internationally that was effectively a "cover version". I don't know if it was ever actually credited because they did it in a show without credits. But unfortunately because they appear to have taken the whole thing direct from YouTube, it undermines them as creative artists and whenever I see something new from them now I wonder whose idea it was first.

What goes around comes around.

Yaalini, I've been in situations where I've danced someone's choreography and it's not been credited (eg at a party) and all I can do in those instances is, if someone compliments me on it, say "thank you it is a choreography by X."

Originally Posted by casbahdance

I want to be Lauren when I grow up . . .

<sigh>

Deborah

*snort*

I'm only good for giving advice to others. I'm a totally wimpy doormat in real life.

Originally Posted by yaalini

Hi,

What do you do if you are in a setting where you can't credit the original choreographer? Sometimes there aren't any introductions made, no programs...of course if it's video you can credit later but I've been involved in a few performances with no intros and no good way to credit others (I've thought of someone holding up a sign sometimes, heh).

Just thought I'd put that out there...

People may compliment you at the end. Just say "Thank you, this was choreographed by so and so."

I try to ask permission from the teacher/choreographer if it's a show where there's no possibility of crediting. At least if it's a big public thing. That way it's not going to be embarrassing if the choreographer happens to be at the show or hears about it from someone else. Also, based on the teachers' answers it seems that they think it's nice and respectful thing to do.

I found out yesterday that the girls were all aware that it was someone else's choreo. I spoke to the girl who posted the video. She was very defensive. She said she was told it was necessary to give credit, by whom, she didn't say. She asked me what I expected her to do about! She said they never took credit for the choreo. I told her by not giving the credit, everyone will assume it was your orginal work. I told her it was too late for the show but as she had her video posted on you it was only a matter of time before someone else made the connection. She said she'd correct it but it hasn't been done yet. I was very surprised by her attitude. She might as well just have said, "whatever".

Originally Posted by norma

I found out yesterday that the girls were all aware that it was someone else's choreo. I spoke to the girl who posted the video. She was very defensive. She said she was told it was necessary to give credit, by whom, she didn't say. She asked me what I expected her to do about! She said they never took credit for the choreo. I told her by not giving the credit, everyone will assume it was your orginal work. I told her it was too late for the show but as she had her video posted on you it was only a matter of time before someone else made the connection. She said she'd correct it but it hasn't been done yet. I was very surprised by her attitude. She might as well just have said, "whatever".

I think defensiveness is to be expected, and she probably needs time to talk to her director and troupemates about how they'd like to handle the situation..

This spot right here:

I found out yesterday that the girls were all aware that it was someone else's choreo.

illustrates just how easy it is to make assumptions that seem logical but are wrong. (and here I'm speaking generally about these situations, I'm not trying to chastise Norma!).

My troupe and I have been working on Faten Salama's melaya leff choreography. Most of us attended and paid for a workshop where she taught it, and I've purchased the $50 instructional video as well to make sure I get it 'right.' It was taught to us as a group choreo, with suggestions for how we might stage it with multiple dancers. I have no doubts about our right to perform the piece. Faten appears on youtube doing the same choreo.

I can easily foresee a situation where I might give the choreo credit to an organizer but they might lose it or opt not to put it in the program or announce it. I'd be VERY angry if I were publicly accused of theft as a result. Technically, it's libel/slander to say such a thing without factual knowledge of theft. Just because you *don't* have first-hand knowledge of someone getting permission doesn't give you evidence of theft!

It's probably better in these situations to avoid emotional and legal terms like 'stolen' and just say 'they performed someone else's choreo and no credit was given.' Those are the only facts you're certain of.

I can see where there are situations where it just isn't possible to give credit. What upset's me the most is they weren't honest with the local dance community. They can say what they want but I was around them and the other groups last year as everyone was struggling to put together choreos. There is a wide range of dancers from beginning students to advanced to professional. This particular group was in the advanced/professional category. They would never practice in front of the other girls but they whined they were having a difficult time learning the choreo and that so and so's style was different then their style. They never said Professional Groups style is different then their own. They said So and So's style is different. I offered to help and they were no,no, so and so want's it done her way. So it's easy to see why I thought so and so created it. And why I thought the others didn't know it wasn't an original choreo. If that's not misleading I don't know what is.

My teacher and our dance troupe ALWAYS get permission to use someone's choreo/music and ALWAYS give credit to the originator. daa-aah!