Thread: How to price Teaching Gig?

Scenario: You get handed a gig to do a one hour lesson at a private home in your area for 5-6 ladies ("hen party" if you will). What price do you quote? A flat rate or per person?

You find out days beforehand there will actually be 8 ladies. Does your price go up (or down, if it's a per-person rate)? What about if there are suddenly 10?

Do you do a contract for this and if so, do you work price adjustments into it?

My price is a flat rate. I charge $175 in my suburban fly-over location, I think in most areas they're $200 and up. Usually a mini-performance (10 minutes) and a lesson (30-45 minutes). I bring a hip scarf for the GOH.

For one off lessons like this, I do a flat rate for up to 20 people. If there's more than 20, I go up $5 for each additional 5 guests.

I do the same contract I would do for a performance, except I replace "Galatea will provide x minutes of Middle Eastern Dance performance" with "Galatea will provide x minutes of Middle Eastern Dance instruction".

Interesting. Now if the gig was handed to you by a superstar local teacher and they gave you their pricing for when they did the previous gig through the same contact, say $25 per person, do you stick with that price? Are you undercutting her if you use a flat rate instead?

I do a flat rate as well. But before I quote them a rate, I ask them whether they want a lesson only, or a performance plus lesson, and I price accordingly. For the lesson only, if it is a small group (max 6), I charge $60. For a lesson and a performance, I quote them my performance rate plus lesson rate, which comes to $185. For a larger group (7-10, but I would max it out around 15, if possible), that goes up to $100 for the lesson alone, and $225 for lesson plus performance.

Essentially, if it's just a lesson, I am trying to keep my pricing in line with my regular classes. Many people really don't care about the performance; they just want the lesson (i.e. I don't get very many "hen party" type of requests; I've gotten more requests for groups that just want a taster lesson, no frills). Adding a performance, though, necessitates all the time and prep that goes into ANY performance, so I feel I need to charge my normal peforming rate plus instruction fees.

Nisaa

ETA: and these days I always use a contract for these types of requests.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

My price is a flat rate. I charge $175 in my suburban fly-over location, I think in most areas they're $200 and up. Usually a mini-performance (10 minutes) and a lesson (30-45 minutes). I bring a hip scarf for the GOH.

When someone wants a lesson for a hen party or ladies club get together, I will offer different option with different price points. For example:

- Fully costumed 10 minute performance followed by 30 - 40 minute lesson: $200

- Same as above but no costume/stage makeup; just my regular teaching gear: $150

- 60 minute lesson with no performance and no costuming; includes brief lecture on the physical and psychological benefits of Belly Dancing (great for colleges or corporate wellness programs). I usually cover what I would teach in the first class of my 6 week beginning session: $100

- 30 minute "express" mini-lesson with no performance and no costuming: $50

I have no problem knocking off a few bucks if I don't have to get into full costume and stage makeup. It takes me about an hour to prepare for that kind of gig, and in my performance packages payment for that time is factored in. If all I have to do it throw on a sports bra with yoga pants and put my hair in a ponytail, my gig time is cut nearly in half, and the price reflects that. I also will reduce the rate if there is no performance involved, because I don't have to spend time deciding on music or what dance piece I'm going to use, and to be honest performing then teaching takes a lot more energy than just teaching alone.

The above not only allows me to make the lesson a good fit for the audience/venue, but it also allows me to work within a range of budgets without screwing myself or other local dancers over.

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

I do a flat rate as well. But before I quote them a rate, I ask them whether they want a lesson only, or a performance plus lesson, and I price accordingly. For the lesson only, if it is a small group (max 6), I charge $60. For a lesson and a performance, I quote them my performance rate plus lesson rate, which comes to $185. For a larger group (7-10, but I would max it out around 15, if possible), that goes up to $100 for the lesson alone, and $225 for lesson plus performance.

Essentially, if it's just a lesson, I am trying to keep my pricing in line with my regular classes. Many people really don't care about the performance; they just want the lesson. Adding a performance, though, necessitates all the time and prep that goes into ANY performance, so I feel I need to charge my normal peforming rate plus instruction fees.

Nisaa

JINX! ..l;,

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Essentially, if it's just a lesson, I am trying to keep my pricing in line with my regular classes. Many people really don't care about the performance; they just want the lesson.

But what about the fact that it's at a private residence instead of them coming to your classes? Is that not worth charging extra for? (I've been trying to figure out why someone would put the price per head so high and it's the only thing I could come up with).

In this specific scenario there is no performance involved.

Originally Posted by nasila

But what about the fact that it's at a private residence instead of them coming to your classes? Is that not worth charging extra for? (I've been trying to figure out why someone would put the price per head so high and it's the only thing I could come up with).

I dunno. I grapple with this. If it's far from me, I would certainly tack on mileage. But it's not challenging for me to put together a one-time beginner lesson, so I just can't justify charging much more than I would for my regular classes.

I hope I'm not undercutting (I do know I'm in line with what others in my area charge for performance + lesson), but I just see these as two different types of events...one is like a small group private lesson, and the other is more of a party performance; to me they need to be scaled differently.

Originally Posted by nasila

But what about the fact that it's at a private residence instead of them coming to your classes? Is that not worth charging extra for?

Unless it's very far away, or there's an unsureness about the safety of teaching in a private residence, I don't personally see the difference in the bottom line. Driving to someone's house is the same time/gas/effort as driving to one of the various locations I teach at.

I guess I could see it if the person normally teaches out of a home based studio, but for me a drive to teach a bunch of people I don't know is a drive a drive to teach a bunch of people I don't know.

Originally Posted by laura 2

JINX! ..l;,

No kidding! ..l;,

I normally use a flat rate, which is higher for larger groups. But if there is a precedent for the per-person rate and it works out to a higher total fee for you, why not use the existing pricing?

As a separate issue, I do think there's an additional benefit to the client in having you travel to their residence for a lesson rather than them traveling to a studio, even though you have to drive to both places. You're delivering a service to their doorstep, and they receive the benefit of that convenience even if it isn't any more or less convenient for you. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to charge more for that.

And, driving aside, usually it really is more convenient to teach in a studio than at someone's house because the studio is set up for teaching, with good floors, mirrors, sound, space, etc. That can justify a higher fee, too.

Like every decision, it depends on what you're comfortable with. Just don't shortchange yourself.

Originally Posted by Zana

And, driving aside, usually it really is more convenient to teach in a studio than at someone's house because the studio is set up for teaching, with good floors, mirrors, sound, space, etc. That can justify a higher fee, too.

That's actually a really good point!

Originally Posted by nasila

Interesting. Now if the gig was handed to you by a superstar local teacher and they gave you their pricing for when they did the previous gig through the same contact, say $25 per person, do you stick with that price? Are you undercutting her if you use a flat rate instead?

This pricing is similar to that which is paid to an instructor for a 90-120 minute workshop when the instructor is paid per person. Seems a bit high to me, but I'm not a superstar local teacher, except in my own mind, of course ..l;,

I would stick with the quoted price -- with a stated minimum -- but I can see how collecting one's fee could be an issue. Perhaps the deposit can reflect the minimum -- hmmmmm . . . how could that work?

Let's say that you'd be happy to do this gig for $150. At $25 per person, that amount covers up to six people. Your contract will state a (non-refundable as of a certain date) deposit of $150 and $25 per person over six people in attendance, whether participating or not.

So, you get your minimum in advance as a deposit and *just* have to collect any balance due the day of. That's all. That should be easy. Heck, I'm sure no one would say anything like, "well, my mother didn't dance, so why should I pay for her?" Then you have to answer that the contract states you receive payment for every person in attendance. Right. I can see that conversation going well.

Then again, some people are just so excited about the whole thing that they'll gush all over you and hand you three one-hundred dollar bills, not realizing they only owned 75 more dollars. That could work out very well!

OR you could have your minimum of $150 (for up to 6 people in attendance whether participating or not), with a flat fee (say, $200) for up to 10-12 folks in attendance, participating or not; then you could have upwardly-graduating scales after that, for example, up to 20 people might be $250, etc.

<shrug>

Good Luck!

Deborah

While charging $60 seems like not nearly enough to me considering the drive time, mapping, gas, using a forgein setting, etc., charging $250 for a one-hour basic lesson with 10 people seems kind of overboard (although not out of line for lesson with performance).

I don't think it's the superstar factor, as Miss Superstar's other rates are nice and reasonable, so I'm baffled at the $$ per head logic in this instance. I was thinking the flat rate (with the sliding scale for attendees) seems more reasonable for this style gig. Thanks for confirming. :)

Originally Posted by nasila

While charging $60 seems like not nearly enough to me considering the drive time, mapping, gas, using a forgein setting, etc., charging $250 for a one-hour basic lesson with 10 people seems kind of overboard (although not out of line for lesson with performance).

I don't think it's the superstar factor, as Miss Superstar's other rates are nice and reasonable, so I'm baffled at the $$ per head logic in this instance. I was thinking the flat rate (with the sliding scale for attendees) seems more reasonable for this style gig. Thanks for confirming. :)

Nasila,
Bear in mind too the different regions we are working in...my rate scales are what my market can bear in the Midwest, while still trying to be in line with what others are charging. Aren't you in California? I am sure your market can bear more than mine.

Nisaa

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Perhaps the deposit can reflect the minimum -- hmmmmm . . . how could that work?

Let's say that you'd be happy to do this gig for $150. At $25 per person, that amount covers up to six people. Your contract will state a (non-refundable as of a certain date) deposit of $150 and $25 per person over six people in attendance, whether participating or not.

So, you get your minimum in advance as a deposit and *just* have to collect any balance due the day of. That's all. That should be easy. Heck, I'm sure no one would say anything like, "well, my mother didn't dance, so why should I pay for her?" Then you have to answer that the contract states you receive payment for every person in attendance. Right. I can see that conversation going well.

I did something like this just recently for a corporate wellness program I'll be doing a couple of one off classes for. I told them I needed $400 minimum for the two classes (the first one includes a fully costumes performance) which they agreed to - BUT, the employees are paying me individually at the first class ($20 per person with about 20 participants expected). I was concerned, however, that there wouldn't be enough participants to make my minimum. So the arrangement I very creatively came up with was this:

1. They send me a deposit check for $400, which I agree not to cash

2. If I collect $400 or more, then I send them back the check uncashed (or destroy it if they prefer)

3. If I collect less than $400, I cash the check and then send them a check of my own for the balance due (i.e., if I collect $350, I cash the check, keep $50 for myself to make $400, and send them a check for $350)

2. If the classes get canceled for some reason, or no one signs up, I cash the check and keep $200 (because I require a 50% nonrefundable deposit), and send them a check of my own for $200

All of this was very specifically written in the contract, and I felt it covered both parties' interests nicely.

Originally Posted by nasila

While charging $60 seems like not nearly enough to me considering the drive time, mapping, gas, using a forgein setting, etc., charging $250 for a one-hour basic lesson with 10 people seems kind of overboard

On the other hand, that's a pretty standard (some would say minimum) private party rate on my beat -- I work mostly in Washington, DC and northern Virginia. I'd guess that your superstar considers the private group lesson to be comparable in value to a short private party performance, which it may very well be in terms of total time and effort spent and the expertise you draw on to provide it. The class seems like a less fancy "product" on the face of it, so your inclination may be to charge less, but what you put into it may not amount to any less and (I would suggest) should be compensated accordingly. Just something to consider.

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Nasila,
Bear in mind too the different regions we are working in...my rate scales are what my market can bear in the Midwest, while still trying to be in line with what others are charging. Aren't you in California? I am sure your market can bear more than mine.

Nisaa

For reference, I'd say $60 is about $10 more than the average restaurant pay around here. Per night. Private gigs should be starting at $200 but in reality are probably going for $125-175.

Originally Posted by nasila

For reference, I'd say $60 is about $10 more than the average restaurant pay around here. Per night. Private gigs should be starting at $200 but in reality are probably going for $125-175.

OUCH!

Well I guess you guys are suffering as we are...restaurants SHOULD be going for about $50-60 per set here, but there's still plenty of people taking $20-25 per set. Blah.

I often feel I am flying by the seat of my pants on setting rates because 1. people are still so weird about talking openly about them and 2. there are so many unique variations on bookings that it is hard sometimes to find a "standard" for a particular booking request I might receive.

I do private group lessons for $50/hour BUT I require a 6 lesson committment, prepaid up front.

Entertaining at a party is different. I'm not giving a lesson, I'm entertaining. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time warming up and perfecting your posture -- I'm going to bring on jokes and fun and laughter and make you feel like you're *dancing* in just 30 minutes' time. It's more work, more prep -- and not part of an ongoing revenue stream for me (same reason restaurants get lower rates than private parties for the same show!)

If I'm entertaining at your party -- -by performing and/or by giving a lesson -- I expect to be paid similarly to a clown, magician, or other entertainer.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I do private group lessons for $50/hour BUT I require a 6 lesson committment, prepaid up front.

Entertaining at a party is different. I'm not giving a lesson, I'm entertaining. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time warming up and perfecting your posture -- I'm going to bring on jokes and fun and laughter and make you feel like you're *dancing* in just 30 minutes' time. It's more work, more prep -- and not part of an ongoing revenue stream for me (same reason restaurants get lower rates than private parties for the same show!)

If I'm entertaining at your party -- -by performing and/or by giving a lesson -- I expect to be paid similarly to a clown, magician, or other entertainer.

Lauren,
I don't know; to me it depends on the nature of the event. I try to get as much info as possible before generating a quote. The bookings that I quote at a lesson rate are really just that...lessons. No party atmosphere, guest of honor, etc. (though I do try to make it fun, just as I do in my basic beginners' classes).

But connecting this to a discussion in another thread about the same type of event...this is the thread I'm talking about: http://www.bhuz.com/forum/business-b...ance-free.html ...it's clear that there are a range of views of what these events are/entail and what kind of compensation we are entitled to for them.

I want to fair (and I definitely don't want to undercharge, cause frankly I hurt myself and everyone else if I do that), but I want to charge for the service I'm actually offering.

Nisaa

Originally Posted by nasila

Scenario: You get handed a gig to do a one hour lesson at a private home in your area for 5-6 ladies ("hen party" if you will). What price do you quote? A flat rate or per person?

You find out days beforehand there will actually be 8 ladies. Does your price go up (or down, if it's a per-person rate)? What about if there are suddenly 10?

Do you do a contract for this and if so, do you work price adjustments into it?

I treat a 'come to our party and teach us how to belly dance for 45 minutes to an hour' as a private party gig. I use the same contract as I do for private events, with the wording changed to reflect the nature of the event and the details. I charge the same amount as I do for a party, and require a deposit. It is more about entertainments than them becoming a dancer, and though I treat the movement aspect seriously (warm-up, safe teaching, easy/doable combos so they get moving within 20 to 30 minutes), we have a blast. They are out to party, after all! I wear my best dance class clothes with a little oomph (heavier make-up, bling, a very nice dance belt or hip scarf, and none of my holey leotards!). I still look like 'the belly dancer', but am not in a costume.

If they want a performance also, that is obviously a larger fee (generally just under the cost of hiring me to do two sets).

This makes my bookkeeping and negotiating easy and straightforward, and has worked well for me. I have done a lot of these, for everything from small bridal parties to large loft parties where people were joining in after filling up a plastic cup from the keg. Generally a 'per person' rate would just be a logistical nightmare. I feel very well compensated with the fees I charge, so am happy either way!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

If I'm entertaining at your party -- -by performing and/or by giving a lesson -- I expect to be paid similarly to a clown, magician, or other entertainer.

It probably wasn't clear from my post, but Lauren's post quoted above fleshes out the way I think of these gigs. For me, the analogy with an ongoing restaurant gig vs. a private party performance is right on.

I have taught several eight-week series of lessons at a home, and those were not priced at my private party rates -- more like studio lessons with some extra tacked on for the studio-vs.-home differential. But a one-off is different. Whether it's for a birthday party, girls' night in, corporate event, or whatever, generally the main purpose is an hour's entertainment. It might also generate business for my classes if I'm teaching, and that would be great, but I can't count on it and don't take that into account when setting the price any more than I would for a wedding or engagement party.

(This isn't meant to address Nisaa's the question of the advisability of doing certain gigs for free for promotional purposes, just Nasila's situation.)

ETA: And Monica has just spoken straight from my brain but better, as usual. Everything she said.

Originally Posted by Zana

I have taught several eight-week series of lessons at a home, and those were not priced at my private party rates -- more like studio lessons with some extra tacked on for the studio-vs.-home differential. But a one-off is different. Whether it's for a birthday party, girls' night in, corporate event, or whatever, generally the main purpose is an hour's entertainment.

I see both you and Lauren's points here, RE: the issue of teaching vs. entertaining. This is good food for thought.

I'm just sharing how *I* think about it and how *I* price it. I'm not saying everyone has to do the same!

But the event in question on this thread was described as a 'hen party,' and they're asking for entertainment, so that's how I'd treat it.

I have done one-off classes for less, or even for free -- breast cancer survivors, stroke survivors, and situations where I'll get to give an infomercial and flyers to over a hundred women!

Originally Posted by Zana

ETA: And Monica has just spoken straight from my brain but better, as usual. Everything she said.

Ha! Your post (and Lauren's, I replied to the original question with my way of handling things before reading everything, heh) makes me want to be very clear that what I was talking about above is totally different than an actual dance private lesson! I was only referring to pricing a party class gig at a party gig price. Like y'all said, hired to be an entertainer (albeit an educating one!) not really an instructor.

Dance classes and private lessons in my studio are very different. (If it is laundry week, for example, I just might wear a slightly ripped leotard. :Awink: )

Originally Posted by Monica

Ha! Your post (and Lauren's, I replied to the original question with my way of handling things before reading everything, heh) makes me want to be very clear that what I was talking about above is totally different than an actual dance private lesson! I was only referring to pricing a party class gig at a party gig price. Like y'all said, hired to be an entertainer (albeit an educating one!) not really an instructor.

Yes, I think we might be comparing apples and oranges...though I wonder whether I need to refine my rate scale/definitions. This is a useful discussion!

I guess what I want to know is where to draw the line in defining something as a plain old group private lesson vs. a party lesson.

Compare these:
-a local small business owner is offering her staff the opportunity to try out different wellness programs. She would like to book a one-time lesson during business hours for her staff.

-a local ladies' club is having their monthly social. They would like to book a one-time lesson for that monthly social. No performance, just a lesson. But it would be to "spice up" the evening.

These do seem like different things to me and I would feel the need to price them differently...

Just thinking out loud...

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

-a local ladies' club is having their monthly social. They would like to book a one-time lesson for that monthly social. No performance, just a lesson. But it would be to "spice up" the evening.

This is exactly my gig, and all the women are 60+ years young. ..g.:

So I am expected to tell jokes?? I don't know any funnies that aren't dirty!! .w.:

Originally Posted by nasila

This is exactly my gig, and all the women are 60+ years young. ..g.:

So I am expected to tell jokes?? I don't know any funnies that aren't dirty!! .w.:

Heh! Who knows, maybe THEY'LL be the ones telling the dirty jokes?

Anyway, for me, when I get requests for lessons at parties/girls' night in kind of things, they always want the performance, so I end up charging a "party" rate. In other words, the distinction for me between "lesson" and "party lesson" has generally been a non-issue because I only seem to get requests for straight-up lessons OR for lesson + party...but I'm realizing it won't always be that clear. I think I need some kind of intermediate step in my pricing...

Still thinking out loud!