Thread: I've had several people ask about this....

Ok, this morning I get [another] email in my email box saying that her husband will be home by THIS Friday and wants to learn a short routine by then, so she could {and I quote} "knock his pants off"..

This is one of several requests I've had like this ie. Learning a small routine for husband or boyfriend in an amazingly short time period.

But I'm at a loss, because I'm not exactly a "How to treat your husband like sultan" kind of dancer.

How have you responded to inquires like these?

Not everyone is out to learn to be a professional dancer, and not everyone shares the same appreciation for the dance as we do. It's is perfectly possible for you to teach a VERY simple routine to someone who just wants to "prance around like a fish" for their husband. Chances are that shes going to forget it anyway and just remember a few hip drops and snake arms anyway.

Anyway, I guess my point is just that I would tell her to drop in on a class between now and Friday, or offer her a few private lessons at a higher price than your usual rate. I don't know, you are a teacher, your business is teaching others... its really not up to you to say how they use it, or how long they stick with it.

You never know, she might take one or two lessons and realize that its much more involved than just a few snake arm poses and the I dream of Jeanie pants and she might be interested in taking it further. Who knows.

Wow. This makes me wonder if some tv show/magazine article suggested it to all these women? (how to welcome your husband home from overseas duty? How to hold onto your man?)

I can see it as an item in a roundup article:

Idea #7: Call your local bellydancer teacher and ask her to teach you how to do a little routine that will knock his socks off!

I guess I'd just tell them 'I'm sorry, I'm more of a restaurant and stage dancer, I don't know much about using the dance for seduction.' Maybe you can refer her to a local burley or pole dance instructor?

(We'd like to say our dance is never used that way, of course -- but in the older Arabic films, the wife would dance for her husband to seduce him all the time, in lieu of a sex scene. So it is a culturally legitimate expression, just not the *only* one!)

ETA: I agree with Amber Moon, by the way. I get a lot of students who come to learn a little dance for their husbands -- some are open about it, others are not. Some wind up staying and falling in love with the dance.

But for someone who's never taken a class before to learn a whole routine by Friday? That's not a realistic goal.

I would actually take this is a challenging opportunity to try to re-educate this woman. I think this may give you a great growing experience as a teacher. It can teach you tolerance (of ignorant ideas), sales (as in selling this as a dance to celebrate women, not men), quick thinking (to get a routine together based on her skills in a short period of time) and who knows what else? Let her know it's okay to perform for her husband, but in order to showcase how beautiful/powerful/amazing SHE is; not simply to act like a slut

Most Americans think exactly like this woman, so it's good to get accustomed to it and come up with a catch phrase to discredit this belief. I wouldn't blame her for it; mass media always portrays belly dancers in the seductress light (even in the recent Charlie Wilson's War). And how else are they supposed to think? Belly dance isn't American culture and they think we're just out there in a bra and skirt, hooker make-up and shaking our bums. It's up to us to shed light on this dance as art.

I think it's not a bad idea to come up with a short, sexy, cheesy little routine and sell it as a private lesson package (3 hours of private instruction for $xxx or something, for these types of occasions.

What's wrong with using this dance in the privacy of your home to seduce your husband? That's what a LOT of ME women who only dance at home do...in fact, that's one place where the dance is "sanctioned" for average women in the ME.

What's wrong with facilitating well-being as it relates to sexuality? Is there something wrong with her being sexy in her own home?

Are we REALLY out to strip all vestiges of sensuality and sexiness from this dance?

< donning asbestos bedlah >

I do this. I have done single 2-3 hour group classes for groups of military wives whose husbands are returning from deployment. I give them a killer discount, and we have a lot of fun. I do some very simple moves and some easy combinations. I haven't been contacted by a single person for this reason. I would still do it, just adjust my rates accordingly.

I just could not be bothered with this lady and would probably ignore it. If she wants to learn to dance-she can go to class and if she wants to play at bedroom fantasy- she can do that without anyones help-surely???

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

What's wrong with facilitating well-being as it relates to sexuality? Is there something wrong with her being sexy in her own home?

Are we REALLY out to strip all vestiges of sensuality and sexiness from this dance?

I am with you on this one, TH. The dance is sensual and what is so wrong with that?

This woman just wants to do a little something special for her husband. And who knows, she might tell all her friends and you might end up with a lot more students!

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

What's wrong with using this dance in the privacy of your home to seduce your husband?

What's wrong with facilitating well-being as it relates to sexuality? Is there something wrong with her being sexy in her own home?

Are we REALLY out to strip all vestiges of sensuality and sexiness from this dance?

I have to agree. I'm new to the boards and you'll soon find that I'm very much on the "bellydance is allowed to be sexy" side of the fence, so you can feel free to take everything I have to say with a grain of salt.

That being said: There is an odd juxtaposition in our dance culture (or at least the American dance culture) where we struggle so much to discredit the "stripper" stereotype that some people feel that any hint of sexuality in dance is reprehensible because it is furthering that idea. But the dance IS beautiful and sensual and I believe stripping it of that element is stripping the dance.

So is it wrong for a women wanting feel sexy for her husband when he comes home to do it through an art form? Would you prefer she just lays there naked on the bed? Dance should be about empowerment and if a women chooses to learn a skill to surprise her husband and to feel more beautiful and confident in his presence then how can it be bad? Of course, if he were to demand she learn and dance for him, this is a different matter, but how is it any different than her husband taking a cooking class while she is away and surprising her with a romantic dinner? Its a skill, and art form, that you are learning to share with someone you love.

And the idea that it is her husband! Why shouldn't this be something she can share with him? Better to learn the dance and use it in a loving situation than to dance in the bar for free drinks.

Rant ending: You might want to tell her that you recommend at least x hours of class time before you would recommend a dance "performance" and gently suggest that unless she wants to work intensively all week with you (and let her know the fee) that it is probably not feasible to expect to be performance ready by this Friday.

Isn't Jayna's video "Bellydance for Bedroom Romance" available at Target? If you don't want to deal with it, recommend that and send her on her merry way.

Originally Posted by nasila

Isn't Jayna's video "Bellydance for Bedroom Romance" available at Target? If you don't want to deal with it, recommend that and send her on her merry way.

That's an option, but in these tough economic times, I think it's unwise to turn down a potential student. She might start off with this one performance in mind and decide she wants to learn more and/or recommend you to her friends/acquaintances.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I think it's not a bad idea to come up with a short, sexy, cheesy little routine and sell it as a private lesson package (3 hours of private instruction for or something, for these types of occasions.

I had made arrangements to do something along these lines with a woman who was getting married and wanted to seduce her husband on the wedding night. Basically how I handled it was to tell her that I'd not be teaching her what I consider to be Belly Dance, per se, but instead would show her a "fantasy harem dance" that would incorporate some BD movements.

My plan was to teach her the sort of things you *don't* generally want to do at a BellyGram - over the top peek-a-boo with the veil, caressing touches, exaggerated gooey moves like undulations and chest circles in close proximity to the guy, etc. I wound up not doing it because her schedule changed and she couldn't make the time slot I had available.

Whoah. Who said there's anything wrong with it? The OP said it isn't her style. She can certainly choose to teach whatever she likes, can't she?

If you asked me to teach you a Tribal Fusion choreo by Friday, I'd have to say no because that isn't MY style. I'm not going to teach myself a whole new style to teach one student for a couple of days. That's not good business and not good teaching practice. The kind of dancing you'd do in a boudoir *is* different from what goes in on most beginner classes.

What's wrong with turning down a student who wants to learn something that's not what you teach?

No one on this thread has said it's shameful or wrong to be sexual or use the dance sexually or even to teach sexy bellydance to women. I'm not sure what y'all are reacting to exactly.

Originally Posted by maliam

I would actually take this is a challenging opportunity to try to re-educate this woman. I think this may give you a great growing experience as a teacher. It can teach you tolerance (of ignorant ideas), sales (as in selling this as a dance to celebrate women, not men), quick thinking (to get a routine together based on her skills in a short period of time) and who knows what else? Let her know it's okay to perform for her husband, but in order to showcase how beautiful/powerful/amazing SHE is; not simply to act like a slut

Most Americans think exactly like this woman, so it's good to get accustomed to it and come up with a catch phrase to discredit this belief. I wouldn't blame her for it; mass media always portrays belly dancers in the seductress light (even in the recent Charlie Wilson's War). And how else are they supposed to think? Belly dance isn't American culture and they think we're just out there in a bra and skirt, hooker make-up and shaking our bums. It's up to us to shed light on this dance as art.

This post was the one I was responding to, Lauren.

Oh, I see.

We do walk a line. I'm not at all opposed to my students taking their dance into the bedroom -- I'm all for creativity and healthy, open sexuality.

But I do work constantly to correct the misperception that our dance is ALL about sex and seduction, so that's how I took the post above.

I can see how it could be read differently, though.

Originally Posted by _Sarai_

Better to learn the dance and use it in a loving situation than to dance in the bar for free drinks.

????????????

Originally Posted by lotus

????????????

That statement made sense to me...

I find it baffling. I'm not being snide, I just am truly confused by it.

Originally Posted by lotus

I find it baffling. I'm not being snide, I just am truly confused by it.

It's fairly common practice in these parts that if you want to go out and don't feel like paying for anything you can simply hop up on the bar and strut your stuff. If the bar patrons like what they see you generally drink for free the rest of the evening... and the sexier the dancing, the more free drinks you get.

So I've seen a lot of girls take a beginner class or two and then use those skills to "crotch" the audience at a bar.

A teacher in Auckland teaches, or used to teach, "seduction classes" because so many of her students wanted to put on a show for their husbands. She came in for a lot of flack. BUT I don't see anything wrong with teaching a woman a routine she can do for her lover, provided, as Sarai says, you're really instilling the importance of doing it privately for one you love instead of for free drinks. If someone is into the latter, I would make a point of asking her not to don a BD costume or call it BD, just say "ok here are some moves that are sexy and hot, this is how to do them safely, you can add them to your existing dance for added hotness."

If my schedule permitted, I would probably accept the opportunity. I wouldn't "teach" any stuff specific to "bedroom dance" (such as the "caressing touches" Laura referred to. Instead, I would focus on the fluid moves such as circles, 8's, undulations, etc. and I would assume that once the student takes it home she'll add her own fantasies to it and do things her way anyway.

I think this dance can do a lot to help a woman feel more confident, more beautiful, and more sexy, and that's something that I think is good to encourage. As others have said, if she thinks the private lesson is fine, she just might come back to a series of regular classes and bring a friend. In fact, I'd plant that seed at the time I taught the private lesson.

During the lesson, I'd probably find a way to work in the fact that this dance has so much more to it than seducing the sultan, but I'd be careful to avoid saying this in a way that might insult her reasons for wanting to learn.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

This post was the one I was responding to, Lauren.

Did I say something offensive? I certainly don't disagree that this dance is sexy or that it portrays every aspect of being a woman, including sexuality (and I don't think I posted anything to the contrary). But I do think it's important to educate people that this isn't JUST about sex, as is the usual main-stream idea.

Originally Posted by maliam

Did I say something offensive? I certainly don't disagree that this dance is sexy or that it portrays every aspect of being a woman, including sexuality (and I don't think I posted anything to the contrary). But I do think it's important to educate people that this isn't JUST about sex, as is the usual main-stream idea.

LOL, nevermind my early morning postings - I need to ban myself from posting before the caffeine kicks in.

But you did mention "ignorance" and the idea that you can belly dance for your husband (or for purposes of seduction) isn't ignorant, it's just another aspect of the dance. I guess in my pre-caffeinated state, it sounded like you were knocking women for wanting to do something sexy for their hubbies.

Not everyone needs to learn the ins & outs of belly dance and culture, etc, before their first class. In fact, I treat this dance as a fun lark for most of my beginner students and only "serious up" with them as THEY become more serious about the dance.

Originally Posted by maliam

Did I say something offensive? I certainly don't disagree that this dance is sexy or that it portrays every aspect of being a woman, including sexuality (and I don't think I posted anything to the contrary). But I do think it's important to educate people that this isn't JUST about sex, as is the usual main-stream idea.

I didn't see your post as offensive, but I didn't read the student's request as "bellydance is only for sex" either. She was asking for a very specific instance... we can't assume that she needs to be "re-educated" either.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

LOL, nevermind my early morning postings - I need to ban myself from posting before the caffeine kicks in.

But you did mention "ignorance" and the idea that you can belly dance for your husband (or for purposes of seduction) isn't ignorant, it's just another aspect of the dance. I guess in my pre-caffeinated state, it sounded like you were knocking women for wanting to do something sexy for their hubbies.

Not everyone needs to learn the ins & outs of belly dance and culture, etc, before their first class. In fact, I treat this dance as a fun lark for most of my beginner students and only "serious up" with them as THEY become more serious about the dance.

I get ya! And I agree. Hell, the only way my husband likes bd anymore is in the privacy of our own home. ..l;,..l;,..l;,

The ignorance remark was only in regards to thinking belly dance is ALL about sex/seduction. I do prefer to help others see it as an art form when I can, but of course not everyone wants to either. But I certainly don't discount that it is sexy and (IMO) can help a woman open her eyes to herself as a sexual being.

Originally Posted by nasila

Isn't Jayna's video "Bellydance for Bedroom Romance"

OMG, I think I just went blind from reading that . . .

Deborah

Originally Posted by laura 2

Basically how I handled it was to tell her that I'd not be teaching her what I consider to be Belly Dance, per se, but instead would show her a "fantasy harem dance" that would incorporate some BD movements.

My plan was to teach her the sort of things you *don't* generally want to do at a BellyGram - over the top peek-a-boo with the veil, caressing touches, exaggerated gooey moves like undulations and chest circles in close proximity to the guy, etc.

Exactly! Everything you don't want folks to do when they leave your classroom!

Deborah

If you can teach it, I don't see anything wrong with it. I would probably tell her that in just those few days there is only so much you can teach and she can learn tho.

Since you said that you were uncomfortable with it (not your style) perhaps there are others in the area that you could refer these people to. It sounded like you have had a few of them.

In terms of business, I think that this might be a good way of gaining students. They come to learn a little something for the hubby, have fun doing it, hubby likes it, they sign up for regular classes. Then you really have the chance to teach to the culture and different aspects.

Of course, again, if it isn't something that you can/want to teach, don't. Just say that it would not be possible to teach her something in such a short period of time.

Oh take this womans money if you want but WTF would you actually going to be teaching her. Ok the dance is sexy but only on someone who can actually do it-I daresay she can make up something equally as effective on her own for her own purposes.
sorry, I'm just finding this very silly!!

I don't mean to offend, but I do find it funny that some of us are talking as if we have some sort of expertise in seduction or at least enough to teach someone else about it.

Seduction, IMO, is a whole other skill set. LOL

My initial reaction, honestly, was one of disgust, because I personally strive very hard to clearly distinguish what I do from other dance forms.

Though I am a "good" bellydancer, this in NO WAY qualifies me as an expert on pleasing, enticing, seducing, or whatever to anyone. Just because people's ignorance attribute this skill to our art form, doesn't make it alright for us to use it when it's convenient for us.

If we don't want this stigma, we shouldn't give in so easily when it conflicts with our pocket books!?

I don't think it's right to (1) lead this woman to believe that this is what belly dance is or (2) pretend like I am qualified to teach her how to knock her husbands pants off.

While I understand that I don't have a right to control what others are doing with the dance, I do have a right to control who I teach it to, if they have been clear what their purpose is.

I, frankly, don't care what someone does in their bedroom. But I will not encourage a harem fantasy and allow the ignorant to wallow in their delusion...while we are seen as cousins to strippers...

I do need to come up with a schpeel. I don't want to hurt a potential customers feelings, but I don't want to lead them to beleive that what they want is something that bellydancers innately offer.