Thread: how to deal with non-payers

So over the past few weeks I've had sales on ebay and etsy and after repeated polite emails, just no response at all from buyers. I've also, stupidly, sent out veils that were not paid for in time for someone's show and am still not hearing back from them ..admittedly my own mistake I keep repeating because i believe deep down in good faith .

The total, according to my accountant, for nonpaid orders the past few weeks is $551.00 . That's almost half our rent. I understand waiting thru the weekend, or waiting until payday, with international orders if someone indicates they will wait a few days to see if the currency exchange rate improves I'm fine with that too.

But I dont eat at a restaurant and go in next week to pay for it. I don't fill the shopping cart at Safeway then walk out. Dancers dont dance for a gig then get paid a week later.

Other than sending out items before they are paid for despite when someone's show is, how do we deter the non-payer?

Another thing that can be particularly disastrous to a small business is wholesalers who place an order and then abandon the order. I'm not talking about people who inquire about orders, and the cost, and completion time, by all means ask away. I'm talking about those who want 50 veils and want to do a revolving account kind of thing or net30 (which often times is what I do with scarves and nondance items like ruanas with boutiques and other places) and the silk is ordered, produced, then the buyer changes their mind . Most often they want the order yesterday but supplies have to be ordered, arrive, then dyed. I try to keep a very low on hand supply of things to keep overhead low . Things happen, the economy dumps, people get sick or what not. But especially us small businesses that don't buy imported already made goods..we buy supplies then have to put time into making them. It ties up our funds that could have been spent on something that sells .

Not here to gripe this is meant as a polite post and question as to how to deter nonpayers? Most of the time the problem has been on ebay but last week it was etsy. I hate blocking buyers or someone with no feedback because I realize many people sign up to ebay or etsy to make the purchase.

Deposits. Ask for a deposit on any order of a certain size - that way, if they cancel the order, at least you keep that deposit and recoup some of your costs. I don't know if that will work on ebay, but I've managed to deter a LOT of non-serious customers by asking for a deposit. It has saved me many headaches and a LOT of money.

If someone expects to receive a product before they have paid for it, they are crazy. Just because they have a show coming up doesn't mean YOU should take a financial risk. You have a good heart Jess, but don't let consumers take you for a ride.

Elijay is smart. A nonrefundable deposit sounds like a great idea to deter cancellations.

And yes, you'll have to stop being so kindhearted about shows. If someone waits until almost showtime to place an order, but isn't prepared to paypal/wire/overnight funds to you, then they're not a very dependable or fairminded person and seem highly likely to renege. Maybe remind yourself that this person may mean every word of her promise, but this is not a person who manages their affairs and/or finances well.

Learn to say 'Oh, I really wish I could help you, but I've had too many bad experiences and I can't honor those requests any more. The options are: paypal, wire funds, overnight a money order. Can you do any of those?'

Don't feel guilty. If this specific veil were *critical* to the show, they would have ordered it weeks ago.

Your motto should be:

Pay pal is free. If you want it tomorrow, you pay tonight. I don't care for Pay Pal's policies all that much...but not once have I not been able to pay.

For the ebay stuff, can you report them for non-payment?

As for the Etsy non-paying customers, here is a possible explanation. To me, Etsy has a bit of a "relaxed" feel, and it may well be that this may lead some buyers to make an impulse buy and then change their mind. Just by the way the sites are set up, on Etsy, it feels as if not paying is not such a big deal, Ebay feels more heavily policed.

All of my customers prepay entirely, even the wholesale clients. My only exceptions are my Amish/Mennonite wholesale clients who don't do credit but are impeccably ethical business people. I invoice them. Everybody else pays up front. Even people who are picking up orders. They must pre-pay so I don't pull and pack an order and then they decide not to come and pick it up.

thank you every body..yes very true ebay is more heavily policed and 'strict'

sigh

i hate that this inconveniences the good apples, ya know

On ebay sell most stuff with buy it now and require immediate payment..I do that and it saves me the stress of non payers

Your other option for e-bay would be to make sure that on the page with all the info that you put that payment must be make within X amount of time or the buyer will be reported. I have seen this plenty of times.

they will pay with bad dance karma

I know in my retail business, I have had people say, "I need a skirt for a show this weekend. Can you send it now and I promise I will pay you after the gig".

As much as I want to help and I understand money constraints, I have to decline their order. I know they are in a bind but I have a business to run. If I lose money on products, then I lose out and that person gets a free skirt!

For big custom orders - ask for a non-refundable deposit. Most ask for 50% or more!

As for ebay people, do not ship unless funds are collected. Only because there is no way to recoup the money.

If you really want to help someone out in a bind - tell them the following...

"I will send this to you in good faith but if I do not receive the funds within XX days of purchase, your name and email address will be posted on my site for all to see."

Almost like the old "bad checks" thing when a store would post your "bad check" on the wall.

Then - tell people to come and check out your "shame wall" - LOL

yeah i do like the list of nonpayers on the website shown publicly thing..that would definitely deter them

Originally Posted by jesennia

yeah i do like the list of nonpayers on the website shown publicly thing..that would definitely deter them

I'd check with legal counsel before doing this, as you don't want to be hit with a lawsuit for slander, defamation, etc. Just a word of caution from the former Risk Manager .p::

Originally Posted by Halima-Dances

I'd check with legal counsel before doing this, as you don't want to be hit with a lawsuit for slander, defamation, etc. Just a word of caution from the former Risk Manager .p::

gotcha..

can you report someone to a credit agency?

If I remember right, doesn't eBay have a third-party escrow service? You send them the merchandise, the payment goes to them and only when both arrive are they released to their respective end-point. (Money to merchant, merchandise to customer).

Have you used it?

Anyone, even individuals, who want anything from you that has to be ordered and dyed.....no less than 50% deposit up front.

As you are a business providing a product, you should be able to use credit agencies. You are a business, they have received items on credit and haven't paid for them.

You are not unlike any other business who supplies items on credit terms where the purchaser has so many days, weeks, to pay the invoice.

I definitely agree with Lauren, if they wanted them for the show they would have ordered well beforehand.

Stop allowing people to take advantage of your sweet nature Jes!

Here's my letter of collection :) ...

Purchase Credit Order:_____________
Date of Credit Order: _____________
Balance of Invoice: ______________

Dear _________________,

You may have overlooked that the invoice (insert Purchase Credit Order details and balance outstanding) remains outstanding as of (insert date).

Please pay the invoiced amount within (how many days you wish to give them) days to avoid the account being handed over to our collection agency.

Please contact us urgently on (insert phone number) if you are experiencing financial difficulty, need to make a payment arrangement, or should you have any queries.

Payment will only be accepted via (insert payment options).

If you have already paid the amount, thank you.

Yours sincerely,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When sending a letter like this, it is important to have written the words "our collection agency". This leads them to believe that you already have one and have used them before :)

Whenever I have placed an order for items ( ebay and non ebay) I have always had to pay for the full order up front, then the seller processes the order once they have received payment. This is something I just expect, I have never had goods sent without payment and have never be told that I need to pay a deposit either. It is all or nothing!

I know some sellers let you pay things off, but you don't get the goods until it is paid in full. I think you should stick with paid in full, no exceptions. If this is a stated policy on your website/etsy/ebay, then anyone asking otherwise can expect no less than a refusal, with a referral to store policy.

I understand you want to help those in 'need', but if those in need can't pay, then they shouldn't be buying.
If someone wants a veil or whatever posted straightaway, no problem, pay now and the minute you receive the payment you can still promise to post. You can also if you wish have a layby system, and state if it is cancelled after a certain time say 48hrs that X% is non refundable, to pay for your time and effort of setting up those accounts and the setting aside the items, to try to deter those who may order and then cancel without a valid reason (reasons can be judged on merit also).

It is nice to help others, but business is business and you have to pay your rent, buy dyes and fabrics etc

Look after yourself first

Belly Dance Mafia?

:D

Originally Posted by jesennia

can you report someone to a credit agency?

WikiAnswers - How do you report someone to a credit bureau if they were your tenants

It looks like your best recourse is small claims court

People who want things NOW but plan to pay for them later should use a credit card. Isn't that the whole point? They can pay it off the next day or finance it for 10 years...it really shouldn't be your concern when people whine that they don't have money for what they want. They CAN put it on a card. There's really no valid excuse for not being able to pay at point of sale.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

Belly Dance Mafia?

:D

hehe my thought exactly.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

Belly Dance Mafia?

:D

Eh...youz pay youz invoize or youz get a concreteza hipsa scarf.

BTW...in case they're different over there...

Over here a collection agency is a debt collector :)

Originally Posted by Veil_Dancer

Eh...youz pay youz invoize or youz get a concreteza hipsa scarf.

All I'm saying iz, Bellas go missing--with the danceh still 'em. That's all I'm sayin'. Real shame when dat happens.

Another idea that I have been tossing around is...

If a dancer needs an item NOW but would like to pay cash/check for it later, I will take a credit card and let the dancer know that if payment is not received by XX date, that I will charge their credit card.

Originally Posted by ravenadesigns

Another idea that I have been tossing around is...

If a dancer needs an item NOW but would like to pay cash/check for it later, I will take a credit card and let the dancer know that if payment is not received by XX date, that I will charge their credit card.

With the advent of Visa check cards making it the same as paying by check or cash from a checking account, I'd be reluctant to do this when they can just use the check card up front. They can dispute it with your merchant provider and it's not only a hassle but expensive as well.

after multiple excuses dancer x has still not said a word about payment

i hereby cast a spell on those veils and they will never perform or behave the way they should from now on

those who steal know they are doing it, surely they must know that every time they dance with or use a stolen item it is tainted. this is not the first time a dancer has made off with veils. another 'big name' dancer has a healthy heap of silks she never paid for and i doubt the guilt will allow her to dance with them anymore

jeez

Originally Posted by jesennia

i hereby cast a spell on those veils and they will never perform or behave the way they should from now on

Hee hee hee - I see I'm not the only one utilizing non-mudane energies to assist/affect my dancing and related art...