Thread: WWBD: Negotiation (rant-ish, long)

I've been contacted a few times by someone organizing an "American Working Family Show." Think Working Women's Survival Show, but with exhibitors for mom, dad, and the kiddos. This will be their first year, and they were overcharging for booth space ($800) and wanted $100/hour for stage time, so I've been ignoring the approaches completely.

But this morning the organizer offered me "one hour of free stage time" if I rent a booth.

I'm sure it's effective marketing, and I'm sure that ballet schools and martial arts academies are happy to put a group of students (kids) on that stage as a marketing tool. But you all know how I feel about putting adult students onstage in front of the GP to stumble around in thrown-together outfits. Bad for them, bad for the audience, bad for the dance. Only my rep group, properly rehearsed and costumed, would go on that stage, and they're basically of pro caliber and should be paid for their work!

After ranting around my house, as you'd imagine, I wrote back and said

Hi, Gary.
Thanks for the offer. I usually only bring my performance troupe to public events, and we're usually paid. Preparing, rehearsing, and costuming for a one-hour show is no small effort on our part. I can definitely see value in the potential publicity, of course, but I'd be more inclined to want to trade a free performance for a booth.

(blah blah blah referencing stuff he said about the venue) What kind of marketing do you have in mind for this show?

He wrote back that he'd consider my doing two one-hour shows, one each day, in exchange for half the booth rental -- so I'd be paying $400.

Now I'm almost tempted. The second show isn't a very big deal, since the rehearsing/costuming/coordination will already be done. My students would enjoy the performance, I think. $400 is tough to come up with, but I'm certain it'll pay for itself.

My questions:

1) I'd rather pay about $250. How might you word a counteroffer at this point? Is the second show a bargaining chip? It's his first year, he needs to fill these booths & the stage time.

2) The name of the event is 'American Working *Family* Show' and it's being marketed especially to families with young kids. That's different from, say, an art show where kids might happen to be present, and this is the Midwest. I don't know if he realizes what kind of dance studio I run, exactly. heh heh. Of course we know our dance is family-friendly. But what about the uber-conservative audience member(s) who might not think so? How do I address that concern before-hand? I don't want to go totally folkloric with the show, I don't think that would help me draw students as well.

rather than putting together a full hour show, make it a workshop (even from on stage), have your rep grop do a song, do a solo, have your students do a songs, have your rep group do another, do another solo in another costume that you can teach in, and end with 30 minuts of public interaction, wear a mike, get them up on stage or get of the stage and TEACH.

much better publicity than submitting people to an hour of student dancing

and i would never pay for a booth really. will you really get that much publicity (paying students) out of it?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I've been contacted a few times by someone organizing an "American Working Family Show." Think Working Women's Survival Show, but with exhibitors for mom, dad, and the kiddos. This will be their first year, and they were overcharging for booth space ($800) and wanted $100/hour for stage time, so I've been ignoring the approaches completely.

But this morning the organizer offered me "one hour of free stage time" if I rent a booth.

I'm sure it's effective marketing

Looking at this, it sounds much more like he's short on space, and trying to cut a deal with "anyone, anywhere". Having seen other dance troupes and companies pulled into such actions, I'm extremely wary of all this for you.
Others may have more direct experience in this, but my sense is that you should look hard at the raw numbers. How many potential students and/or paying gigs do you realistically think'll come out of your money for this booth + sweat and tears of yourself and others that develop and staff for it? I mean, even $250 is nothing to sneeze at, and that can pay for a serious set of advertising, and maybe booth space at something more focused in interests that work with our dance form.

Simply put, without knowing more about your specific situation -- if you think you'll get enough new customers to more than recompense for the work, and can afford the price you eventually negotiate, then do it. If not, let it go; other chances will come, I suspect, and be much better suited to your needs.

I doubt the GP would be enthusiastic about watching various forms of dance many hours on end unless their children were part of the performing groups. I would counter-offer with a more GP friendly and sensible approach:free booth and one :20-:25 performance each day. Period. I would also ask to be paid whatever is a reasonable rate for your area for said performances. Otherwise you will probably be overwhelmed with requests for 'free' performances, most people will presume since other groups performed for free yours did the same. At least with some form of payment you will maintain your level of professionalism.

It's quite evident the sponsor of the event is struggling to fill the booths and the stage. That is a powerful bargaining tool. You could also state since your group would be performing it could lead to more attendance since family members enjoy watching their loved ones perform.

I just googled "American Working Family Show".
There's no advertising, to say what it's really about, just call a phone number, at the conference center.
I'm surprised there isn't at least a webpage devoted to this, instead of call a number for more info.

Since this is the first time he's doing this, he doesn't have any feedback, or references to give you.
How much traffic do they expect?
I'd negotiate a little more.

What else have they done at this center?
Car Shows? Food tasting from various local restaurants?
Etc.
How successful were those venues?
Did it increase their business?

And as you said:
"But what about the uber-conservative audience member(s) who might not think so?"

I'd check into it more.
And if it looks like you still want to do it, I'd negotiate.

He needs to fill those booths!


Basically what asim1 said.

I wouldn't do it. I think Asim is correct--he is just trying to sell space and I really don't think you will see much of a return on your investment.

At work, I receive a lot of these types of solicitations for our organization to purchase booth space at the baby expo, etc. If I turned it down or don't respond to flyers or emails, I have been called and offered "deals."

Don't do it. Just like radio time sales--they are always having some kind of "special" that is "just for you" and it's always "for a limited time." It's just a sales pitch and it really doesn't seem like the sort of event that is going to do much for you considering the cost.

Maybe if you wait longer and the time for the show comes closer he'll be more desparate to fill the slots and make "some" money (some is better than nothing) - he might offer you something much better. It seems like he needs you more than you need him, so maybe you can wait it out.

I also agree an hour of performances is wayyyyyy too long. You'd get much more out of it by including the audience.

Just counter with what you want and see what happens. $250 + 2 Shows. That seems fair and a pretty serious reduction in his original rates. It's hard to really say if he is over or undercharging. It all depends on the amount of traffic he can bring and the price of the venue.

The worst that can happen is that he says "no". And then you can decide at that point whether you are willing to pay the $400.

I've decided to let the situation 'rest' until Tuesday, see if he contacts me first (on the advice of a veteran business negotiator).

To address concerns that have come up here:
The venue does generally attract large crowds, and I was satisfied with his marketing plan but not excited about it. I would only need to have 5 students register to be in the black if I wind up spending $250, I feel certain I would do better than that.

I agree that an hour of show is a LOT, but at these expos the audience usually comes and goes during the show. People stand and watch for five or ten minutes, then they wander away and new people come by. I *love* the idea of doing a brief performance and a lesson from the stage. I may break the hour up with two lessons.
I've done that before at health fairs, it's been very effective.

Usually what I've done at fairs is to offer a prize drawing, too. That way I can collect names and addresses of people who were interested enough to stop by the booth and follow up with mailings.

Hmmmmm.... maybe I should do 1/2 hour of bellydance and a 1/2 hour yoga demo class each day?

Do you have to use the entire hour of stage time? Just wondering...

by the way... I agree that the guy needs to fill the space and, I think, the stage time. He's eager to make a deal.

I also agree that it's the event's first year, there's no track record, he can't even cite similar shows he's put together, it's a big risk. So I think it's appropriate to ask for a deal.

The $800 he was originally asking for is what I used to pay for a booth at Fair St. Louis, an established event that's been going on for decades, features nationally known entertainment, and draws millions of visitors!

Anyway, I'll try to hold out for the $250 price and I'll post an update later in the week.

You used to run a magazine, so you understand how these things work--you just have to decide what you want to do.

Would he let you have two 10 min slots for free - plus allow you to flyer around the event in galabayas? Just think of the colour and character you will bring to his event, and how it will be good publicity for his to have actual bellydancers on his stage :-)))

No harm in asking....

Originally Posted by Lauren_

by the way... I agree that the guy needs to fill the space and, I think, the stage time. He's eager to make a deal.

I also agree that it's the event's first year, there's no track record, he can't even cite similar shows he's put together, it's a big risk. So I think it's appropriate to ask for a deal.

The $800 he was originally asking for is what I used to pay for a booth at Fair St. Louis, an established event that's been going on for decades, features nationally known entertainment, and draws millions of visitors!

Anyway, I'll try to hold out for the $250 price and I'll post an update later in the week.

It sounds like you have it all under control. Keep us posted. I'd like to hear how you do and how it turns out.

I'm betting you'll get the $250 deal. Heh heh. You go.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

You used to run a magazine, so you understand how these things work--you just have to decide what you want to do.

LOL - True, but in those days I had a marketing director. I'd say 'See if we can get it for $250" and SHE'D do the negotiating. I called the shots, but never actually TALKED to people. Yikes!!!