Thread: Resturant rates in Denver

No sweat, I understand now how it got misread.

A marriage counselor told me once that certain topics are so emotionally loaded that we stop listening as soon as we hear a few key words. We think 'oh, this is Topic A' and start reacting emotionally so we can't hear the rest of what's being said.

I think that applies here!

Wow, I was offline for a day and this thread went crazy! I thought it was just a simple question asking for a simple number range-sorry for setting up a mine field! But thanks for the advice and response from everyone, I really appreciate it =)
Nikki

Originally Posted by micamica

Wow, I was offline for a day and this thread went crazy! I thought it was just a simple question asking for a simple number range-sorry for setting up a mine field! But thanks for the advice and response from everyone, I really appreciate it =)
Nikki

that just goes to show you how charged this issue is.

Well I come from 2 generations of Union leaders and negotiators. My Dad was an international rep for the AFL_CIO and represented the western US, and let me tell you it was mafia like at times. I do know how to organize a union and maybe down the road that will be a job I'm willing to take on. Imagine a day when we get paid sick days, health coverage, union wages, seniority when it's earned, not by who undercut or slept with the drummer!!

I also think this kind of an organization would send a clear message to the club owners that we are professional and serious, they think we are a dime a dozen and will continue this if we don't start setting better boundaries.

Originally Posted by *maria*

This is such a loaded topic, pay and undercutting, that emotions completely get in the way......

Aradia, a bellydancers union sounds good, but to be practical , how would one start, my gut feeling is it would end up as a type of "mafia" if we aren't careful.
Have you put any ideas of thoughts into it?

Originally Posted by Aradia

I also think this kind of an organization would send a clear message to the club owners that we are professional and serious, they think we are a dime a dozen and will continue this if we don't start setting better boundaries.

Yes!

I think you are the woman for the job! Your dad could be your mentor....

Hehe!!..g.: I've talked to him about it before!!

Originally Posted by *maria*

Yes!

I think you are the woman for the job! Your dad could be your mentor....

Here in Seattle, we notify each other via our various chat groups once someone calls for a gig, discovers they don't like the rate, and says they're certain they can find someone else to dance for less.

I also make sure to work the mention of pay protocols into my conversations with younger/newer dancers when I wind up spending time with them, and my students. I think most of us in this area are fairly vigilant.

I just had a conversation with a young dancer the other day. She expressed the usual concern ... that she didn't feel she should charge as much as a pro with experience. I was so glad to have been able to inform her. She was happy to be informed, and then wondered why we don't have a union.

A union would be great. But, yeah, what would that entail? How would it work?

In the meantime, I think we just need to be as open about pricing on gigs & in restaurants as possible, and have this conversation as many times as possible... over and over ... because there are always newbies who need to hear it : )

Why would it have to be so formal as a union? I guess in Aradia's area, and in other areas where there are large and maybe more venues, and where there may also be more dancers (both good and bad), I could see it. But for most of us, dancing away in areas that don't have more than one (if that) restaurant that offers dancing, or where calls that come in for performances are few and far between, it seems that a local or regional club could fill this need.

For instance, there is a state organization in Indiana. Inexpensive to belong and it provides what most of us expect: networking, exposure to different styles and dancers in different areas of the state, networking, one or two workshops (at least one with a name dancer) a year, networking . . . . But it also could provide a list of restaurants hiring dancers throughout the state and the standard rate one could expect to be paid if hired, a list of the standard prices around the state for shimmy grams (with a definition of what a belly gram entails and the time to be spent -- I see posts on Bhuz of doing belly grams for $100+ for 1/2 an hour. 1/2 an hour? Cripes --- the longest "gram" I ever did was 15-20 minutes and most were under 10. Anything longer I considered a "show" or a "demo" or maybe a "workshop" and priced it accordingly), and even the going rate for being hired to do small workshops both for other dancers and for non-dancers (like a Red Hat Society meeting). The group could provide a checklist of what is entailed in being a dancer-for-pay, as well as what the dancer should have in the way of skills and in the way of acceptable costuming before she decides to go professional or semi-professional.

While I try to address these issues in my classes from time to time, not all instructors do and having them available from a central organization would be nice. Nice. But I'm still not convinced it warrants a union in most instances.

I agree with Kat, the bigger cities, such as Las Vegas and New York/California have many more venues and big clubs and hotels.
In Denver, there's maybe 3 restaurants, there are hookah bars and such, but a union wouldn't work here......
In the bigger cities, definitely!

yes i remember that, but sometimes people would still take the gig. unfortunately in this area, i think if a notice went out someone would deliberately contact them and give them a "better rate" so doubt it would work here ,f::

Originally Posted by Mirabai

Here in Seattle, we notify each other via our various chat groups once someone calls for a gig, discovers they don't like the rate, and says they're certain they can find someone else to dance for less.

I also make sure to work the mention of pay protocols into my conversations with younger/newer dancers when I wind up spending time with them, and my students. I think most of us in this area are fairly vigilant.

I just had a conversation with a young dancer the other day. She expressed the usual concern ... that she didn't feel she should charge as much as a pro with experience. I was so glad to have been able to inform her. She was happy to be informed, and then wondered why we don't have a union.

A union would be great. But, yeah, what would that entail? How would it work?

In the meantime, I think we just need to be as open about pricing on gigs & in restaurants as possible, and have this conversation as many times as possible... over and over ... because there are always newbies who need to hear it : )