Thread: Non-mainstream performance venues?

There are certain types of performance venues that draw belly dancers like a moth to the flame: nursing homes, city festivals, Middle Eastern restaurants, etc.

How about a conversation centering around non-standard venues?

Where are good places for students and other amateurs to dance other than the obvious nursing homes and city festivals?

Where can a professional dancer find paying gigs other than restaurants and bellygrams?

How can an ambitious dancer create a NEW professional for-pay venue for belly dance in her community? What steps should she take in approaching a restaurant or coffee shop that doesn't already have dancing to propose that they offer it AND hire her to do it?

How about niche markets? (Yes, I understand David's point in the other thread about making yourself so fabulous that people will hire you despite the fact that you don't fit their stereotypes of what a belly dancer should look like, but I think it's worth discussing niche markets anyway. If they exist, WHY NOT pursue them even if you're also pursuing the mainstream ones?) What sorts of for-pay markets exist for a well-past-the-age-of-menopause-and-showing-it older dancer whose wrinkles are clearly showing? What sorts of for-pay markets exist for a plus-size dancer who is large enough to be receiving pressure from her doctor to lose weight? What sorts of for-pay markets welcome darker-skinned dancers who may be shut out of the existing local restaurant scene? How about for-pay venues for tribal-style dancers? What if you live in a fairly small city that doesn't have a Middle Eastern restaurant?

ooh Good Thread! My teacher made her own venue, which is bi-monthly. We have up and coming dancers with a paid headliner and with a live band. It is above a chinese restaurant in their function hall. Since it is a function room, we also have vendors come in as well. It has worked out very well and she is also thinking of doing a slightly smaller venue for the months the bigger one isn't being held.

Taletha created several Goth shows at a nightclub in Louisville. They weren't regular gigs, but something special for that particular audience to enjoy.

I'm pitching a performance/instructional demo to a group that arranges psychic fairs, but they don't want to pay much.

Older dancers could follow the Red Hat Society meetings for leads, or advertise Red Tent women's parties. It's not regular work, but I know a lady in Indy who makes a decent amount off of doing "crone" parties for ladies 50 and over.

I've made friends with some restaurant owners who want to offer something special periodically for their customers -- sort of a 1001 Nights experience for one night only. Not regular work by any means, but I'm hoping it will at least expose people to the dance and open up possibilities for more private parties.

Does anyone dance at Indian restaurants? Just about every Indian restaurant owner I've met ADORES bellydancing.

Charitable organizations like Women's centers and hospitals, or Girl Scouts or Rainbow Girls offer opportunities for paid performances, but again, they never want to pay MUCH and usually want a workshop or something as well. I make WAY more money teaching than I do performing, but I guess that's the case with a lot of people.

Non-Middle Eastern Restaurants that also have live music or other entertainment. There are several pizza places here that have live music and belly dancing weekly or monthly. I also perform fairly regularly at an internet cafe that hosts a variety of musical events, once a month we do a belly dance show with live music. I also frequently perform at a spa. They have a monthly "Night on the Mediterranean" show with live music. Patrons sit in a hot tub, sip champagne and watch belly dance.

And yes, some Indian restaurants do have belly dancing. I know Gypsy Caravan used to perform at some Indian restaurants.

So look for other restaurants/cafes/nightclubs that host live music and dancing. They might be open for belly dancing, this is also a great venue for non-traditional belly dance performances.

I, along with 2 other dancer friends, did a gig at a roller derby. They paid us all $100 ($33 ea.), so it really wasn't that amazing of pay, but it was the same amount they paid every other halftime act so I felt it was OK. We did a mysterious entrance, upbeat pop song, and drum solo. I have to say that they were a great crowd! They asked us back but wanted us to commit way to far in advance, and because it wasn't a really lucrative job we didn't want to fill up a Friday night that far out (in case a different job arose in the meantime). I suppose if it's just one dancer the pay would be pretty good!

I dont' think there is dancing at indian restaurants here; it's a venue I've been thinking about pursuing. There are some nightclubs that have "arabian nights" themes once a month or so; I've never done it so I don't know how successful it is.

Yay! Let's think outside the box! I need this. We are so sick of being limited to the Greek restaurants!!! Something new, different, and perhaps more rewarding!!!! :)

We danced for a VIP event at a race track / casino. It was an Egyptian themed party. They even had an "Sultan" that we fed grapes to. ;) It was fun and very tasteful. Let me tell ya . . . . they waited on us hand and foot. We had body guards everywhere we went, a lot of respect from the staff and onlookers, and the pay was . . . . well . . . . unbelievable! Let's just say I likey dancey at the casino!!!! :) Cha-ching! Cha-ching!!!!! ;)

Hit up your local casinos! :)

I'll tell you. There were 5 dancers, and we EACH got a little over $200 for only about 30 minutes or so of total dancing time. :) Nice.

Well...I'm in Vegas...so convention work comes to mind. There are lots of "meet & greet" opportunities for company socials, etc.

I've thought about conventions, too...I was an event planner for a little while so it gave me the idea. The problem is that we don't really have a large enough draw to my city so we don't have much opportunity. I've always recommended dropping off info at your city's CVB and maybe the major hotels (sales office or concierge desk) because those were the first places I'd look when I was seeking entertainment for my events.

this isn't bd but just throwing it out there:
my flamenco instructors (husband & wife running their own lil flamenco biz) perform at a spa and they get credit towards spa items/services
that's something non-mainstream and unique too. don't know what kind of spa it is or what the atmosphere and whatnot but apparently its been a hit since they do it regularly

Conventions, Casinos & my fave... with a ROCK BAND!!! Seriously bellydance is a popular form of entertainment during tthe breaks between bands and they pay pretty well too.

A lot of the responses to this thread so far have listed non-standard venues, BUT have NOT mentioned how one goes about getting a foot in the door.

For example, suppose a dancer aspires to do conventions. Whom does one approach? What company does that person work for - the hotel/convention center? Some other kind of business? What is that person's job title? What, exactly, does one propose that the dancer will do? Stand by booths and pose for pictures? And what kind of fees does one charge?

Or, suppose one wants to dance during a rock band's breaks. Who does one pitch the idea to? The band, or the club that hires them? Who pays the dancer, the band or the club? And what kind of fees can the dancer charge?

How about casinos? Whom does the dancer contact, and what kind of show does she pitch? And what kind of fees?

You get my point... let's have details! Let's have actionable advice, not just laundry lists of cool places people have performed!

oh i completly forgot, i danced at an urban art gallery before.
he knew this chick on one of the other troupes and she had asked people to perform.
but i would like to hear details of how to get your foot in the door for some of these venues!

well i did suggest contacting the CVB and hotels, but I didn't mention destination management companies. The companies are hired because they know everything there is about their city, and they handle all the planning aspects of an event (transportation, venue selection, booking bands to play at dinner, etc.) Some hotel concierge desks will do these services; I've had one sales manager who acted as a DMC as well. But there are companies that specialize in putting together events. For example, when I was planning a meeting and wanted to put together several days of extra activities in Newport, RI I used this company:

Newport Hospitality - Home Page

This thread is making me want to actually do the things I suggest, because it might provide some great gigs...I haven't saught out performance opportunities on my own before.

As far as the roller derby, that was purely a personal connection. One of the intermediate class girls is in the derby and approached my friend.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

A lot of the responses to this thread so far have listed non-standard venues, BUT have NOT mentioned how one goes about getting a foot in the door.

For example, suppose a dancer aspires to do conventions. Whom does one approach? What company does that person work for - the hotel/convention center? Some other kind of business? What is that person's job title? What, exactly, does one propose that the dancer will do? Stand by booths and pose for pictures? And what kind of fees does one charge?

Or, suppose one wants to dance during a rock band's breaks. Who does one pitch the idea to? The band, or the club that hires them? Who pays the dancer, the band or the club? And what kind of fees can the dancer charge?

How about casinos? Whom does the dancer contact, and what kind of show does she pitch? And what kind of fees?

You get my point... let's have details! Let's have actionable advice, not just laundry lists of cool places people have performed!

Quite some time ago (early 2008) I posted that very question - as wanted to get paid gigs for our advanced and professional dancers associated with the studio we opened. I got lots of advice on where to try - but nothing on the how to approach...
Flash forward to now - we're getting venues and persons interested beginning to approach us. Mostly because they've seen us perform at the many community and local (mostly freebie stuff) that we've been doing. Contact local chamber of commerce to see what events are being held near you, contact the organizer or group in charge and see if they have/want performance. This is great for students to get their feet wet. Hand out lots of cards/flyer - we seem to get a rash of new students the week after a performance (many of which drop away when they realize they can't learn everything in just one or two classes - but we've found if they sign up for between 4 and 8 classes, they're addicted).

But those flyers and cards let the GP know we have professional dancers available for parties/grand openings/corporate events/etc. Thats what's been getting us hired of late (and the fact that we can back it up when we say we have professional quality dancers). Anyone can say they are - but the proof comes out when ya actually get up there to perform...
So far we've done country clubs, a mexican restaurant, a lawn party, a bowling ally (go figure on that one - LOL).


But I would still love to know HOW to approach a venue and actually get the gig/venue. I think those in the know don't share because they fear too much competition. But me - I wanna know cause I would like to get or open up more non-traditional performance venues. (as the traditional ones are oversaturated)

Originally Posted by aziyade

Does anyone dance at Indian restaurants? Just about every Indian restaurant owner I've met ADORES bellydancing.

Oh we have a new one here and I would LOVE to dance at it!

I just want to know how to approach these people at the Indian restaurant, also...I'm not sure how.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Or, suppose one wants to dance during a rock band's breaks. Who does one pitch the idea to? The band, or the club that hires them? Who pays the dancer, the band or the club? And what kind of fees can the dancer charge?

I want to know this, too!! I have some friends who perform all over town. How the heck to I pitch this to them? They are jazz and rock, not ME. But heck, I'd love to dance in their set break for some extra cash & extra exposure.

I think there are only two ME restaurants here that still offer BD. Finding non-traditional venues is kind of a way of life for me.

Most of my '08 gigging was at trendy young non-Arabic nightclubs that hosted occasional Arabian Nights theme nights. It worked fantastically for me, with the slick, high-fashion branding and image I was developing for myself at the time. Not to mention, many of these gigs can actually be found on MySpace: nightclub promoters often like to send their feelers out on there.

Of course, I've been out of the loop for 4 months and the bar/club industry has taken a serious hit with more folks staying in and buying their booze at the store. It's still a relatively untapped market, however, and wouldn't hurt to test the waters.

I have danced at many Indian restaurants because my neighborhood is highly populated with Indian people and I have a very strong following in this community. I don't remember exactly how it started, but I do know that Indian restaurants typically have belly dancers for special events rather than weekly dinner shows. Also, since these celebrations are well-attended, the rebookings and referrals come rolling in as you do them. I did have one weekly show at an Indian place, but it was on a Wednesday night in South Jersey and didn't quite take off. Other than that, I get an abundance of shows at these venues during the holiday season and a fairly steady flow throughout the year.

Most Indian restaurants throw big New Year's parties with DJs and lots of food and drinks. This is prime time to get in as the entertainment, and in my experience, they book as early as October and as late as the day of the show, depending on when they figure out the budget.

My advice would be to figure out which restaurants are the area favorites and approach them with your press kit after maybe eating there once or twice. Also, listen to some of the big hit Bollywood songs and get to know them inside and out. When you can hit all the accents, make a few references in your dance to the video from the film, and sing along a bit, you will be a huge hit and everyone will want you for their parties. Mention on your site and in your promo packets that you dance to Bollywood songs as well as Middle Eastern, and if you can score an Indian party, it may be held at a restaurant and give owners the opportunity to see you. This seems to be how I've cultivated the majority of my following in the Indian community, but like I said, there is a huge Indian population here!

Hope that helps anyway.

Serafina
www.serafinabellydance.com

Originally Posted by Sonja2

I just want to know how to approach these people at the Indian restaurant, also...I'm not sure how.

Rule numero uno, learned from radio sales: restaurant owners don't care why you think you should dance at their venue. They do care, however, about the potential traffic you can draw.

You've got a pretty easy "in," here. The restaurant's new. How about pitching a celebratory bellydance theme night to pique local interest and announce the restaurant's presence in town? Even better if they're game to advertise this. By showing empathy and business expertise, you already get the one-up over a slew of uncouthe 6-week wonders (and even a lot of professional dancers) who might have just gone in there and bragged about how cool they are and why they're entitled to dance there.

Oh, and here's a stupid rule, but a major biggie, nonetheless: make sure the person to whom you're pitching is a decision maker, whether they're the owner or an event coordinator. Get that person's name first, if you can. There is nothing more embarassing than running a spiel by a waiter and finding out that they have no control over the hiring of live entertainment - yes, I was dumb enough to do this a couple of times as a baby belly, about a million years ago

what about if you can't dance at a restaurant...
and have no idea where else to go...not sure of how many decent nightclubs would want a bd-er, specially if i'm not a clubbing gal so i'm not sure of how decent these nightclubs are to begin with lol

Originally Posted by Sonja2

I want to know this, too!! I have some friends who perform all over town. How the heck to I pitch this to them? They are jazz and rock, not ME. But heck, I'd love to dance in their set break for some extra cash & extra exposure.

Why don't you ask your friends in the band directly? I doubt if a band would want to pay you out of their pockets, they often work on a percentage of the door. Maybe they can tell you who does the bookings and you can work something out with the venue. Bottom line always seems to be, are you a draw? i.e., will people come and pay to see you?

I think a good way to get into a new restaurant (Indian or otherwise) would be to approach them with the idea of a joint venture. A showcase or hafla during hours the restaurant is closed. You either rent the place out or offer to split the proceeds with them. You keep the door money, they sell drinks. Or they provide an hors d'ouvres buffet or a sit-down meal which you sell at a slight markup to your attendees. Any arrangement that works for both of you.

At that event, you can show them your dazzling professional quality dancing AND show them that you can draw a sell-out crowd. On your way out, or the next day, while they're counting their happy dollars, you say 'By the way, if you're interested in having dancers on a weekly basis, our (my) rate is $XX per set.'

(Disclaimer: The above is an imaginary, composite scenario pieced together from various things I've done. I haven't successfully done this exact thing, but it's what I'd try if I wanted into a new Indian restaurant in town!)

Originally Posted by Sonja2

I want to know this, too!! I have some friends who perform all over town. How the heck to I pitch this to them? They are jazz and rock, not ME. But heck, I'd love to dance in their set break for some extra cash & extra exposure.

how bands get booked and paid vary HUGELY from area to area and even from club to club - you would definately want to ask your friends band (and maybe call around to some clubs that you know have bands - it can't hurt) ...

I know in the area I'm in we (my band) get booked by some clubs just for our set or sets and the club would book any other entertainment (usually other bands) that would be there and we wouldn't have anything to do with that and the club pays each act their share for the evening - and in other clubs we are booked for a night and it is up to us to provide entertainment for the evening and if we were to want to bring someone else in, it would be our choice as long as the evening was taken care of and it would be up to us to split the money they gave us. ...

pay is usually based either on percentage of the door or percentage of the bar - so whether either a band or club would consider bringing you in would depend on whether they felt you would add significantly enough to the draw to justify it. In larger areas with a good scene, it might - in my area, the amount of money a typical band makes in an evening is laughable and it would just not be feasable to cut in a dancer - by the time we gave you any sort of pay that wasn't insulting, we'd be negative for the night. ... but, like I said, that is greatly dependent on the area and other areas pay much better.

Originally Posted by Safiyah

well i did suggest contacting the CVB and hotels, but I didn't mention destination management companies. The companies are hired because they know everything there is about their city, and they handle all the planning aspects of an event (transportation, venue selection, booking bands to play at dinner, etc.) Some hotel concierge desks will do these services; I've had one sales manager who acted as a DMC as well. But there are companies that specialize in putting together events. For example, when I was planning a meeting and wanted to put together several days of extra activities in Newport, RI I used this company:

Newport Hospitality - Home Page

This thread is making me want to actually do the things I suggest, because it might provide some great gigs...I haven't saught out performance opportunities on my own before.

I have some postcards left over from my last mailing campaign to the usual venues. I just sent some to the Milwaukee CVB and some hotels/convention centers - I'll let you know if anything happens.

A good press kit is essential. head shots, bio, sells sheet. And if you are brave, a DVD of your dancing. Then, once you have identified the venues, find out who at the venue has the buying power, so to speak. Then approach them with a press kit, a follow up call about a week later. make sure that every thing has your website address on it and that your website is an expansion of your press kit.

A really well laid out post card will also work as a press kit. as a door opener. You can then give the organizer a full kit upon speaking directly to them.

Another thing to do is list yourself on wedding and event sites. I know here in LA there are several professional Party and event Planner sites which also send out hard copies every quarter.

Next is this: when you get your listed in one of these sites / registries, remember to look at all upcoming events in your city. many of the listings will have info on who to contact because with larger event - especially civic events such as Museum galas, etc. - they take bids from vendors. this is an excellent time / opportunity to network and get your face / info out there.

just some thoughts off the top of my head.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by *Shira*

For example, suppose a dancer aspires to do conventions. Whom does one approach?

In our town we have a couple of convention centers, and I talked to the manager of one facility. They did not directly hire artists for entertainment, but could recommend entertainers to conventions renting their facility. I left them a press kit but never really pursued it (for other reasons.)

Our convention centers book their events at least 6 months in advance. What I did once, for an old car show/auction, was looked at the convention schedule and contacted the people organizing the show. I gave them my pitch, and I ended up doing a 2-hour "class" type thing in an adjoining room for the wives and daughters. It was pretty fun. Paid $200. And I got free admission to the auction, which was what I wanted in the first place. ($50 ticket.)

I'm told you're usually supposed to talk to the Catering Director or Event Planner.

Once I actually called the Hadi Shriners, because they have this "Arabian" band who plays at the circus, and I thought it would be fun to dance with the band. I ended up talking to the band's director and he thought it would be a fun idea, but they needed sheet music. I never really followed through on that because at the time I didn't know where to get sheet music for Arabic music, but I may pursue that again this year. Hmmm. I have no idea how to approach getting paid for this, since they all do it for fun and for charity (supposedly) but it might be fun, anyway.

Or, suppose one wants to dance during a rock band's breaks. Who does one pitch the idea to? The band, or the club that hires them? Who pays the dancer, the band or the club? And what kind of fees can the dancer charge?

This is what a friend of mine does: The band has an agent, and she met the agent and negotiated a percentage of the cover charge. She actually performs live with them for a couple of songs and then dances to canned music during the two breaks. I think she gets around $75 for it, depending on the night. I would ask for more, but then I don't want to dance in bars.

How about casinos? Whom does the dancer contact, and what kind of show does she pitch? And what kind of fees?

Casino Aztar here has a lot of entertainment, and a couple of years ago I spoke with the manager of the "lounge" which is where the big acts are booked. She liked the idea, but wasn't interested unless I had a live band.


For my Arabian Nights dinner theatre, I hooked up with a chef who specializes in Moroccan and North African food, and we come as a team -- the restaurant pays us to cook and dance, respectively. We're just now starting to really promote it, so I can't say if it's going to be good work, but I have high hopes.

From what I've gathered, you're much better off if you can book your gigs with a band or a chef, or some type of full-service type thing. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of interest here to "dancer parading around to a cd." I have a mandolin player I'm starting to work with (who keeps telling me he's going to get a bouzouki) but I still need a drummer. If I had even THAT much of a band, I could get better/more jobs.

One other thing -- get an agent. Even my po-dunk town has artist's representation. They have connections you might never would have dreamed of. AND they argue price for you. Mine just tells me when to show up and for how long. I love it.

If your agent is doing it, make friends with the managers of the local party supply houses, or tent rental agencies, bridal shops, or talk with Meetings and Events International or call and hook up with event planners who advertise in the yellow pages. They might (at very least) let you put up or distribute flyers. Same goes for dance supply stores. Reciprocal advertising is a great way to get your name out there too. Agree to put a link to "Taffy's Dance supplies" on your website, and in turn Taffy's will leave your business cards on the counter. That kind of "social networking" is cheap and at very least gets you some "brand" recognition.

And one more thing -- I got most of my private party referrals in the last year from free/discounted performances with organizations like Girl Scouts, American Cancer Society and the Humane Society. For 501-c-3 organizations, (I will dance/teach workshops at a discounted rate, and for animal organizations I dance for free.) One "free" Humane Society auction show got me 4 party referrals, netting $550. A performance at a community health fair got me a contracted teaching position at a women's hospital here.


For restaurants, Indian or otherwise, what I would do is just go in and talk to the owner either WELL before lunch, or in the split between lunch and dinner (like 3ish.) Remember to push what a GREAT DRAW live entertainment is, and tell him to try it once, and if it doesn't draw new customers, he never has to have you back. DO NOT discount the first performance or you'll never get paid full price. Stress the fact that your pay is an investment in new customers, or whatever sales pitch you use. Then get ALL your friends to come see you on the performance night, so the place is standing room only with a 45 minute wait. :) That way you can tell him, "see I was worth it, right?" lol.


Edited to add -- another smart business decision is to join your local area arts council, or serve on a parks and rec board or a fundraising committee for your favorite charity. I've had a couple of referrals from my arts council membership, and got a poi gig from being on a fundraising committee! If you're out in the public, and people know you as "the bellydancer" they are more likely to think of you when they need entertainment.

Originally Posted by aziyade

Edited to add -- another smart business decision is to join your local area arts council, or serve on a parks and rec board or a fundraising committee for your favorite charity. I've had a couple of referrals from my arts council membership, and got a poi gig from being on a fundraising committee! If you're out in the public, and people know you as "the bellydancer" they are more likely to think of you when they need entertainment.

I have been thinking for the past couple of years about joining the local Chamber of Commerce, but it's nearly $300 a year, and I don't know if I'd get enough business to justify the cost. It would take up nearly a third of my entire advertising budget for the year.